Gotham | 53m | 17 fl | Completed

[jcphoenix]

Originally Posted by Ide

If what they say that the building needs to be weatherproof, does it mean that the brick veneer (outside brick layer) needs to be fully in place? There will be more delays. I am expecting more late Friday's emails to learn about more delays. Nothing is helping with this cold weather sticking around.

I spoke with Debbie today and asked about this for you...they're not talking about the brick veneer. The building had to be weather-sealed before the brick is laid - she said the issue is now a non-issue and the entire building has been weather-sealed.

The inspector (to grant occupancy) will be onsite Friday or Monday so if there is another delay, notice could very well be at the very last minute.



This is all so lovely...with my boyfriend leaving on a 7am flight the next day. He also has midterms Tuesday and Wednesday which means we have to hire movers but of course if we hire movers we will pay a penalty if there's a delay (and also we don't know the move-in elevator time) so we can't hire them yet and yet if we don't hire them now then there's a good chance there won't be any movers available that day...fucking lovely.

And our move out date for our extended stay Minto is on March 5. They were good enough to extend us this time with short notice but will they be able to do it again if we give them only a day's notice?

Really, I don't understand how the builder can't be on the hook for this stuff. The $7500 cap for all expenses is ridiculous (the $1500 they owe for short notice is actually included within the cap rather than additional too). Tarion is totally rigged for builders. We're going to be paying out of pocket very quickly without compensation.

[Ide]

Originally Posted by jcphoenix

I spoke with Debbie today and asked about this for you...they're not talking about the brick veneer. The building had to be weather-sealed before the brick is laid - she said the issue is now a non-issue and the entire building has been weather-sealed.

The inspector (to grant occupancy) will be onsite Friday or Monday so if there is another delay, notice could very well be at the very last minute.



This is all so lovely...with my boyfriend leaving on a 7am flight the next day. He also has midterms Tuesday and Wednesday which means we have to hire movers but of course if we hire movers we will pay a penalty if there's a delay (and also we don't know the move-in elevator time) so we can't hire them yet and yet if we don't hire them now then there's a good chance there won't be any movers available that day...fucking lovely.

And our move out date for our extended stay Minto is on March 5. They were good enough to extend us this time with short notice but will they be able to do it again if we give them only a day's notice?

Really, I don't understand how the builder can't be on the hook for this stuff. The $7500 cap for all expenses is ridiculous (the $1500 they owe for short notice is actually included within the cap rather than additional too). Tarion is totally rigged for builders. We're going to be paying out of pocket very quickly without compensation.

JC: If I was you, I would tell Minto that I am staying for an extra week no withstanding. Same for the movers, I would give them a range of days like from March 5th to March 12th. Movers are less busy between the 5th and 25th of each month. My mover will give me a 10% discount if I move between the 6th and the 24th of the month. As per the purchase offer, and as my lawyer told me, whenever Lamb Dev Corp tells us the occupancy is, we got to pay from that date even if one is not able to book the elevator for an other week! Critical for all of us is our own occupancy date and the date that we are able to book the <freight> elevator: remember that there is only one moving elevator that has access to the loading dock and, at any time, only one elevator may or will be booked for moving. If your occupancy date stays March 5th and you are not able to book the elevator until March 10th, your move is likely March 10th. And right now, no one knows how difficult it will be to book the elevator for moving on a certain date and how long it will take. And there are 250 suites to move in, so we will have fun moving in. Remember that all those investors wish their tenants to move in as well ASAP...A lot of fun ahead!

Thanks JC to ask Debbie about the building. As I walked in front of the building today, the front lobby has a painted black ceiling and most lights are working now!

As for Tarion, it is the bare minimum! Remember that Lamb Dev Corp is billing us for the Tarion fee! I quickly looked at the Tarion warranty claims and its remedy: pretty skippy when one compares it to the purchase offer that we signed! I will discuss this delay issue with my lawyer to have the adjustment for the numerous delays taken care by the builder in the adjustment closing costs instead of going thru Tarion, to be compensated if it is possible.

Anyways, it is getting late...

[Ide]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I walk by there on a very regular basis. There was a long delay in the fall where almost nothing happened on the site for weeks at a time. They must have known that whatever caused that delay would set the whole thing back.

I live in the neighborhood and I walked daily by the site to my way to work and back and there was activities every day. I surely do not agree with you. Once the bulk of the work moved above the 8th floor or concrete forming was done, one is not able to see what was going on at street level.

[jcphoenix]

Thanks for the tips Ide -

I've spoken with the lady at the Minto that we've dealt with throughout all this and she's sympathetic to our cause so she will let us extend if we need to last minute. So that's one big thing we don't have to worry about at least.

Considering the 14th floor is moving in on March 13th, my guess is that it's about a floor a day. Even if I was going to book a later date, there's just as many people probably moving in every single day for the next two weeks (and keep in mind my boyfriend is gone for the next week). We need the stress to be over ASAP and we can't afford to wait two weeks either and pay $1400+ to stay longer at the Minto in addition of course to the amount we'd be paying for "renting" our unit at the Gotham daily. I'm very skeptical that we'll be able to get anything over the max Tarion amount out of the builder because there's simply no incentive for them so I'd rather not end up paying significant chunks out of my pocket without any guarantee that we'll see that money back.

That said, the tip about mid-March was really useful so thanks - I just called another mover and asked about that and they have significantly cheaper rates starting March 5th. So if I can book an elevator for that day instead of the Wednesday, then I will do that instead and stay one extra day at the Minto.

I'm pulling out the stops right now to try to accommodate for every possibility but that's part of what's stressing me out because many things hinge on booking the moving elevator and the time of day we're able to get it at. It especially bothers me to no end that we can't book the moving elevator until occupancy is granted. It makes no sense - why not take down names and times first so that people can be prepared for move-in. If it gets delayed, then you do the process over again. At least that way, people would be able to prepare and plan.

I'll have to walk by tonight or tomorrow and take a peek at least at the paint job in the front entrance.

[jcphoenix]

We are delayed till March 24. A full three weeks. With not even a full two days notice before we were supposed to move in. I love how when I called earlier today they said they weren't sure yet if it was going to be confirmation of move-in or an extension.

It's a THREE WEEK DELAY. They knew full well that occupancy wasn't happening for Wednesday. And they held onto that information.

I have inquired with my lawyer whether there is any legal action we can take.

[Karma22]

I'm really glad I found this Forum. I have been suffering silently with very little to absolutely no information about my unit.
I am on the 17th floor so probably one of the last to move in. Our recent delays have gone from
Dec. 19th
to Jan. 6th
to Feb. 21st
to April 3rd
to April 7th
and now today April 10th!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

What is most frustrating is the complete lack of communication.
We sold our condo last November to ensure we would not be carrying two mortgages for our move in date at the Gotham of Dec. 19th 2014. (Mind you this date has been pushed back and back. Original Occupancy was supposed to be NOVEMBER 2013)
We bought this condo back in May of 2011.

We had been renting a fully furnished condo with our things in storage From Nov. to Feb. and it was double what our mortgage would have been.
I tried desperately to get a hold of someone at Gotham prior to the end of January as we needed to let our landlord know if we would be renting for another month and extending through to March or April. After sending numerous emails and leaving voicemails finally someone picked up the phone.

I spoke to Debbie and Marisa who both told me we were on time for Feb. 21st however. I thought it was strange that they would not schedule a PDI inspection for me or tell me how to move into the building. (Also added stress to the situation)

They finally told me just short of 2 weeks to my occupancy date of Feb. 21st that I would be once again further delayed. But interesting, when I finally received the official letter in the mail last week...they had dated it for Jan. 30th. (The exact day they assured me I was ok to occupy on the 21st)

I am now as I call "homeless" like most of you. My landlord was not able to extend my Lease as she had already rented it out for March 1st upon me telling her that Gotham had confirmed my occupancy date was ok. I have had to move 2 times now since November...
I am living with a friend, my things are in storage. I still do not know what is the cause of all the delays and at this point feel like my entire life is impacted.

I own a rental unit at the Central 2 which I also bought as a new construction. I can tell you that there is no comparison. We had a 2 month delay there due to the elevator strike but we were informed every step of the way. I would receive weekly emails from the sales office with whatever news they had, and once it did come time to occupy everything was easy. We were given lots of notice for PDI and move ins. The move ins and elevators were all booked and the transition was seamless.

Brad J Lamb has been a huge disappointment. What's even more frustrating is watching him launch all these new projects in Calgary and Toronto meanwhile he can't even finish the ones he has and I can't help but think that some how all my money that he has sitting in an account somewhere is working for him in some way to fund these.

Please keep up updated on the first move in's. I am worried about the finishes to the units and buildings since they are probably rushing at this point. I have heard horror stories about some of his Toronto projects. And at this point I am expecting even further delays.

[jcphoenix]

^Karma - sorry to hear about your situation too. But glad you found this. Hoping more owners come join us here in the next few weeks as we all go through this.

I lay all the blame with Lamb as well. They are the ones with the piss-poor communication skills as well as the ones who hired all these inept tradespeople, from the plumbers who cut the holes the wrong size in the entire building to the current electricians who don't seem to know how to wire units.

I also find it insulting that I am able to find out about likely delays from other sources before the company actually lets us know. This is the second time where I had an idea that we would be delayed (though not to the scale that we actually ended up delayed this time) prior to notice given. When I spoke with Debbie last week, she seemed to think we still might move in Wednesday. When I spoke with the office today, I was told they didn't know if there would be a delay or not but a notice would be sent out either way at 4pm. HOW COULD THEY NOT HAVE KNOWN? If the delay was for a few days, I'd understand, but it's for three weeks. There's obviously a significant amount of work still to do. Even when we walked past this weekend, we were shocked at the state of the site still. And when I spoke with the concierge service after I spoke with the office, they were surprised that the builder hadn't sent out a notice of delay yet because they were by the site on Friday and didn't think it was ready.

Anyway, I was scoping twitter for other Gotham owners and discovered a tweet from Jan 20 by Fortress (who is behind Gotham) showing a picture of a Gotham unit, advertising available suites.

Of course it was the picture my boyfriend took of OUR UNIT that I posted in January here:

[voltz8]

Karma22: A handful of us are in the exact same boat as you, and exxxtttremmelly frustrated with the way they have handled this development. As you said, Lamb has definitely bitten off more than he could chew. By taking on too many developments at a time, he's unable to deliver ANY quality work on schedule, everything is now in crunch mode. This means that the "project manager" will attempt to push the trades into finishing construction sacrificing on the quality of work. What I'm angry about is that we all put down good money for Gotham and as it stands, we risk getting some rushed product. I hope I'm wrong, I hope there is some kind of quality assurance.

From watching a couple episodes of his show and seeing him in person, I saw Brad as the type that although he may come off as a big DB, he managed to get shit done and I respected him for that. But apparently I was wrong, lesson learned.

On the bright side, I do see the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm sure the dev team is frustrated with all of this too and are trying 'their best' to get this done with.

Good luck!

jcphoenix: I see your pictures all over the place, especially from people renting out their suites on kijiji! They should all pay you a royalty And GJ calling out Fortress, that made me chuckle... apparently they can't be bothered to take a couple of pictures for their marketing.

[jcphoenix]

voltz8 - I just browsed through a bit of kijiji and you're right! I see the pics I took of the model suite from way back.

And my boyfriend was the one who called out Fortress hah - exactly, he thought the same thing about them not being able to take some marketing pictures themselves.

I also just want to mention another issue, one that's been bothering me ever since the PDI - I was never told that there would be cabinets above my island. I definitely asked about it before to *someone* (but so long ago I don't remember who) and was told there weren't. I was under the assumption for the past few years that I didn't have cabinets above the island so when I selected cabinets with Celeste, I paid to upgrade to 42" cabinets rather than the standard 30" in order to have a bit more cabinet space.

What pisses me off about this is that Celeste never once made a mention that, "Oh hey, you have cabinetry above the island and it is going to lower the cabinets to a weird level". You'd think as the person who was supposed to help guide our choices, that she would have made a very simple mention regarding that. If I had even known that there were going to be cabinets above the island, I wouldn't have upgraded to the 42", especially if I knew they were going to extend the cabinetry DOWN and not UP to the ceiling.

Because while I was pleasantly happy to know I did have cabinets above the island, I am still pretty annoyed about the fact that they come down an extra foot on the island side, blocking off people's faces in the kitchen and looking pretty fucking weird. And yet, if I rip out the cabinetry and redo it, it's going to cost me an obscene amount, let alone matching with the other cabinetry.

I don't even know what to do at this point about that. I don't even think that's something Tarion will cover because technically, I did get the 42" cabinets. It's just that no one provided me with the information about what the fuck that actually meant for my unit (reposting the picture below from previously in the thread):

http://i.minus.com/iVL12OykWAJcy.JPG

[nredding]

Yes, those cabinets don't look good. They almost make the kitchen into a separate room. I don't like the color either. Don't you think a lighter color would be better?

[cr872190]

Its definitely not ideal but it doesn't look awful. If I were you I would simply remove the upper cabinets above the island and finish the ceiling. It would look much better completely open, and since you paid for the longer cabinets you should have enough storage anyway.

If you really want the shorter cabinets above the island I would first contact Lamb and if that doesn't work then go through Tarion but I doubt they would have much leverage in a situation like this.

[jcphoenix]

^Thanks for the suggestions.

I sent an e-mail to Debbie regarding the issue. We'll see if anything can be done to get the cabinets replaced with the standard sized ones. I'm not looking for the money back from the upgrade either, I just want the place to look more open cause it's been bothering me ever since my PDI.

cr872190 - we actually don't have very much cabinet space on the other side so that was something we were worried about. While I agree with you that opening it up looks better, having some cabinetry there is actually important enough for us for practical reasons to keep. Just not...going all the way down so low to the island.

nredding - the color of the cabinets looks lighter in person. I don't know why both times I've taken a photograph of them with my iPhone, they've appeared so saturated. I've attached another of my boyfriend's photos which are more accurate to the grey tones in the brown. At the time of purchase, because I thought I didn't have cabinets above the island, I didn't think it would seem as oppressive and I liked that color with the white countertops (I've attached another photo as well below of our bathroom sink) and to bring a slight bit more warmth into the place. I still like the color actually but in a large dose like that it's not great yeah. Hopefully one foot less of cabinetry (if I can get that fixed) will help alleviate some of that.

Also, at the time, I planned to paint the right wall in that photo above red (posted a couple pages back but here's a link to what I had envisioned: http://i.minus.com/ibo6qmVLNRQ5Ha.png) so I needed certain colors that went with that and there were a limited number options in the standard and tier 1 upgrades. Still most likely doing that but going to see when all the furniture is in. We have generally picked everything to work with the color scheme I initially planned though.

[Ide]

I was off yesterday and, lucky for me, I got an email at work (as it is the address that Lamb Dev has to contact me) telling me that my occupancy date has moved from March 13 to March 27th!!! I have a running joke at work that every late Friday - or Monday morning - I get an email from Debbie and signed by Brad Lamb to announce a new delay. So far, I went from Feb 21st to Feb 24th to March 5th to March 13th to March 27th! And, knowing that JC was to move originally on January 30th and myself on February 21st, this is a 3 week spread to move people from floors 3 to 17. Now, it is likely that the first people are moving on March 24th and the upper floors on March 27th, so just one week to move about 230 units!!! This is not possible to move the whole building (minus the 1st and 2nd floor and the 17th floor) in one week!

I was hoping to move before Easter...not likely to happen. Since there were so many unknowns about buying on paper (no matter how often I read the purchase offer or question my lawyer, or ask around Lamb Dev) and I wasn't able to find the answers to plan this purchase properly and get all Ts crossed, I decided last fall to carry both my current home and my new Gotham loft for a few months, no matter the cost - I simply didn't want to have to deal with the possibilities of selling my place then having to move twice or put my stuff in storage, etc. From what both JC and Karma22 have been thru with these delays, it has been proven to be a wise decision.

This week-end, as some of you may have done so, I took advantage of the SoBa suite closing and bought a few items for my new loft at Gotham! While being there, I met Ryan and he told me that he had a chance to view the building and, once Gotham gets occupancy permits from the city of Ottawa, the building will be fabulous! He mentioned to me that they waited a few weeks for the Ontario TSSA to come and inspect the elevator amongst many other things. Also, with the very cold month of February, it really slowed things down. As an example, they were not able to operate the construction crane quite a few days in February when temperature dropped below -18C. The issue with the plumbing sub-contractor going bankrupt was both a major headache and delay.

Anyway, my assurance broker told me today that it is routine for condo occupancy to have delays after delays in big Toronto (up to 6 months or more): the issue is not unique with Brad Lamb. He is as anxious as us to have the building completed as he doesn't get paid until the building is completed and registered.

BTW, I am not sure if you are aware of this: we need to have Tenant Insurance from Interim Occupancy to Firm Closing, as my insurance broker told me today: the building and the unit that we have bought are not yet registered. Once the title is transferred to our name, we may get proper Condo Owner insurance.

I haven't had my PDI yet: will it ever happen? I ordered quite a few upgrades and I like to know how they turn out - if ever they were done! Are most of you have gone for your PDI yet? Like JC, I like to find out if I have done the right choices: I have mostly a white/grey/black color palette.

JC: For your kitchen cabinets, I doubt that you will get a refund for the 42" upper cabinets - I would have ordered them if I knew about this option. Like you, my plan shows an island without upper cabinets. Who knows, I may have upper cabinets above the island! Should you want to have the upper cabinets shorten (and most people seems to agree here), I would hire a kitchen cabinet maker to take them down, modify them and reinstalled them. You have been really unlucky with your unit: a very early occupancy with amongst the longest delay, the tile issue with the bathtub skirt and these upper kitchen cabinets! The list may grow as you get your 30-day Tarion list. As for painting your place, I would wait at least 6 months (even better a year) before doing so. Should you file with Tarion to correct defects, the builder obligations are to restore to the original finishes.

Also, from someone close to the building contractor, I learn that most units from the 3rd floor to the 16th floor are ready less a day or two of touch-ups and cleaning. The 1st, 2nd and 17th floors have the drywall installed and moving along to completion.

[MattRichling]

Originally Posted by Ide

I haven't had my PDI yet: will it ever happen? I ordered quite a few upgrades and I like to know how they turn out - if ever they were done! Are most of you have gone for your PDI yet?

PDI's are mandatory through Tarion, and must be done before you get the keys.

[1overcosc]

Lamb should be heavily punished for this. All the people moving in should be entitled to massive compensation, at least $10K or so, all coming out of Lamb's pockets. If the law doesn't require this, it should.

Of all the people I've ever known to move into a new building, I've never once known it to ever be on time. We need better laws to punish delayers.

[Jim613]

Originally Posted by Karma22

Brad J Lamb has been a huge disappointment. What's even more frustrating is watching him launch all these new projects in Calgary and Toronto meanwhile he can't even finish the ones he has and I can't help but think that some how all my money that he has sitting in an account somewhere is working for him in some way to fund these.

Originally Posted by jcphoenix

I lay all the blame with Lamb as well. They are the ones with the piss-poor communication skills as well as the ones who hired all these inept tradespeople, from the plumbers who cut the holes the wrong size in the entire building to the current electricians who don't seem to know how to wire units.

Originally Posted by voltz8

Karma22: A handful of us are in the exact same boat as you, and exxxtttremmelly frustrated with the way they have handled this development. As you said, Lamb has definitely bitten off more than he could chew. By taking on too many developments at a time, he's unable to deliver ANY quality work on schedule, everything is now in crunch mode.

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Lamb should be heavily punished for this. All the people moving in should be entitled to massive compensation, at least $10K or so, all coming out of Lamb's pockets. If the law doesn't require this, it should.

Of all the people I've ever known to move into a new building, I've never once known it to ever be on time. We need better laws to punish delayers.

With all the Brad Lamb talk, I hope for your sanity that you didn't read yesterday's Greater Fool Blog

http://www.greaterfool.ca/2015/03/03/hopeless-2/

(It's all second hand information, but if true...WOW, Lamb is unbelievable)

[Radster]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Of all the people I've ever known to move into a new building, I've never once known it to ever be on time. We need better laws to punish delayers.

This just turns me off buying a new construction condo, period. With that said, I am anticipating that once the housing/condo bubble bursts, and prices drop a bit, I will be able to score something decent, 1-5 years old range, without all the hassles of new construction delays, PDIs etc.

Anyway, good luck to all you Gothamians, hopefully you will be all moved in by Canada Day. On the bright side, its no fun moving in the winter. Spring is best for moving

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by Radster

This just turns me off buying a new construction condo, period. With that said, I am anticipating that once the housing/condo bubble bursts, and prices drop a bit, I will be able to score something decent, 1-5 years old range, without all the hassles of new construction delays, PDIs etc.

Anyway, good luck to all you Gothamians, hopefully you will be all moved in by Canada Day. On the bright side, its no fun moving in the winter. Spring is best for moving

Hahaha. I know people who have been waiting for decades because they are waiting for the bubble to "burst" And really if you are going to enter the housing market for the long term, ie the next 40-50 years it doesn't really matter. there's going to be lots of ups and downs.

But do what you are comfortable doing


Also what's with the cabinets over the peninsula in the kitchen??? Way to make the unit feel infinitely smaller.(yes I know it's for storage but eek)

[Radster]

True, ups and down short term, but always up long term. Shit will hit the fan once interest rate hikes happen, maybe this or next year. Alberta is already bursting no? Anyhow, in my case its getting to the point that I am considering just renting for a good price and stashing as much cash away in diversified investments instead. Afterall, having a mortgage with say, 20% down as a sole investment, is actually, not an investment. This is what most people do not realise, that in most cases they are better off renting. Just read some of the articles here to see what I mean: https://www.google.ca/search?q=mortgage+...UTF-8#q=owning+a+house+not+an+investment

In my case, I could afford a mortgage with my fiancée for over $600K easily, and have a good 20% down, but at the moment, we are quite lucky paying $700 rent including heat in Hintonbourg, for a 2 bedroom with parking and a backyard (half of a house basically). So why would I want to start paying double of what I am paying per month now? Just to say its my condo (when really its not), and have less $ to play with for fun things in life, like travel? Then I read these types of threads full of stress and horror stories, just a turnoff and makes me realise how good I have it

[cr872190]

Originally Posted by Radster

True, ups and down short term, but always up long term. Shit will hit the fan once interest rate hikes happen, maybe this or next year. Alberta is already bursting no? Anyhow, in my case its getting to the point that I am considering just renting for a good price and stashing as much cash away in diversified investments instead. Afterall, having a mortgage with say, 20% down as a sole investment, is actually, not an investment. This is what most people do not realise, that in most cases they are better off renting. Just read some of the articles here to see what I mean: https://www.google.ca/search?q=mortgage+...UTF-8#q=owning+a+house+not+an+investment

In my case, I could afford a mortgage with my fiancée for over $600K easily, and have a good 20% down, but at the moment, we are quite lucky paying $700 rent including heat in Hintonbourg, for a 2 bedroom with parking and a backyard (half of a house basically). So why would I want to start paying double of what I am paying per month now? Just to say its my condo (when really its not), and have less $ to play with for fun things in life, like travel? Then I read these types of threads full of stress and horror stories, just a turnoff and makes me realise how good I have it

Because you have no equity. Maybe it's just my mentality and how I was raised (by a financial advisor and an accountant) but I would NEVER want to be paying someone else's mortgage, even if I could save ~$200 or so a month. If you can afford a mortgage, start paying yourself. Its like the difference between leasing and buying a car, the lower payments are enticing, but at the end of day you either own a car or you don't. With housing prices rising as they have, almost no diversified portfolio can return to you what a $600,000 house can on the Ottawa market. Ottawa always has and always will remain in a slow and steady upward trend [The CMHC Ottawa Housing Market Outlook is a great read for more info on that]. It would take the federal government picking up and moving their jobs to another city to do that.



Mortgage rates are not about to skyrocket no matter what fear mongers will have you believe. Gas prices will stabilize over the next six months, with it the economy will too. While I am not anywhere near a fan of the conservative government they are good bankers and great at holding steady, and thats what they will do.

That all being said, I envy your ability to rent indefinitely with tenant protections. And it is surely EASIER to rent than own.