Zibi Ottawa Ontario | U/C

[waterloowarrior]

Is it pronounced "Zee Bee" or "Zib Bee"?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by WannabeLandscapeArch

I'm sure the Arabic community will love this name. "Zibbi" means "my —" in Arabic. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Zibbi. The spelling isn't the same but it's close enough!

Well, it will be a major erection.....

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Is it pronounced "Zee Bee" or "Zib Bee"?

And (I'm out of touch) is it "PIM-is-see" or Pim-EE-see?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

And (I'm out of touch) is it "PIM-is-see" or Pim-EE-see?

It's pronounced [pɪ'mɪsi]. The first two vowels are like the 'i' in 'bit', the last is like the 'ee' in 'see'. However that combination is highly labourious for a Canadian English speaker, so it will likely get pronounced as [pə'mɪsi]--replacing the first vowel with a generic 'uh' sound (like the 'o' in harmony).

[1overcosc]

As for zibi, I imagine it's [zɪ'bi] (zih-BEE) based on the way Alqonquin words typically work, but I'd want to hear audio confirmation of that.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

As for zibi, I imagine it's [zɪ'bi] (zih-BEE) based on the way Alqonquin words typically work, but I'd want to hear audio confirmation of that.

Zee-Bee, going by the audio in Kitgan Zibi's website intro

[OTSkyline]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

Such undercurrents of ignorance and old school Canadian racism:

Yup! That's the Canada I know. Grew up in a small town with a large First Nations population- the — I've heard, disgusting.

We have this facade about Canada.

Oh —? You appropriated one of our words to name a billion dollar development of the landmark neighbourhood that could represent the indigenous Nations in the capital of this federation- putting condos for the upper middle class and elites; but it's cool- other opportunities, other opinions, don't matter cause — the Natives am I right?

Hopefully, when the time comes to develop Victoria Island we do it right and it's not an after thought- do I have any faith in that? Not really.

Learn your history...
----
Though I do support this development and would love to live here- just raising my voice in response to this kind of talk

For me, there are a couple of issues which irk me..

1) The whole "we took their land" etc.. Isn't that how the whole world came about? Different colonies exploring and building settlements etc..? The British themselves colonized how many places in the world in their early exploring days? Yet you don't see this big divide in other countries between the "natives" and "british"... When will this end? In 50, 100, 300 years will we still be bowing down to the first nations and naming things after them? It's not like we have expulsed them from the area.. I would rather see them being an active part of the redevelopment and raise awareness and include some of their traditions/art/culture in this project. It should be a collaboration rather than a "no - our way or the highway".

2) If the first nations would have come together to buy the lands from Domtar again and work on a tangible plan to turn it into park space or an Indigeneous centre, that would show that they are interested and trying to work towards something; instead they haven't lifted a single finger and they just expect the government or Windmill to build it all for them... Why haven't they tried to redevelop the lands? Why aren't they proposing something else instead? The reality is this place is currently an industrial dump and there are no first nations currently "gathering" there, so I don't see how a "status quo" and not redevelopping the islands is even an option... At least, from what I have heard/read, Windmil is still open to working with them and building some things that will honor them and talk about the history of the lands.

(end rant)

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

For me, there are a couple of issues which irk me..

1) The whole "we took their land" etc.. Isn't that how the whole world came about? Different colonies exploring and building settlements etc..? The British themselves colonized how many places in the world in their early exploring days? Yet you don't see this big divide in other countries between the "natives" and "british"... When will this end? In 50, 100, 300 years will we still be bowing down to the first nations and naming things after them? It's not like we have expulsed them from the area.. I would rather see them being an active part of the redevelopment and raise awareness and include some of their traditions/art/culture in this project. It should be a collaboration rather than a "no - our way or the highway".

2) If the first nations would have come together to buy the lands from Domtar again and work on a tangible plan to turn it into park space or an Indigeneous centre, that would show that they are interested and trying to work towards something; instead they haven't lifted a single finger and they just expect the government or Windmill to build it all for them... Why haven't they tried to redevelop the lands? Why aren't they proposing something else instead? The reality is this place is currently an industrial dump and there are no first nations currently "gathering" there, so I don't see how a "status quo" and not redevelopping the islands is even an option... At least, from what I have heard/read, Windmil is still open to working with them and building some things that will honor them and talk about the history of the lands.

(end rant)

Don't paint everybody by the activists. All my aboriginal friends I've talked to about this (granted, most are Mohawk, only one is Algonquin), support this project, as it brings the area back into harmony with nature from its industrial era contamination, and includes nods to the area's indigenous heritage.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by LaGrandeOurse

Roy Dupuis made a big speech sunday on tout le monde en parle about how much we had indigenous blood among our ancestors.

That is very true of Quebecers whose ancestors have mostly been in Canada for hundreds of years. For most of us in the rest of Canada whose ancestors came after 1900 the whole guilt complex is less relevant.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

That is very true of Quebecers whose ancestors have mostly been in Canada for hundreds of years. For most of us in the rest of Canada whose ancestors came after 1900 the whole guilt complex is less relevant.

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Temperance

It's not about "kissing —" it's about what's fair. The aboriginal people of Canada were almost completely disenfranchised by colonialism - it is only right that we meaningfully consult with them about their land.

Having said that, I don't much like the name "Zibi" - it sounds like a refreshing drink.

Legally speaking, it isn't their land. And 'meaningful consultation' requires two interested and active participants, something the Algonquins haven't been thus far in the process. They want it their way... and that's just not going to happen.

[m0nkyman]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Legally speaking, it isn't their land. And 'meaningful consultation' requires two interested and active participants, something the Algonquins haven't been thus far in the process. They want it their way... and that's just not going to happen.

Actually, legally it *is* their land. They have chosen not to pursue claims against privately held land in the area that is their unceded territory. Nobody in Algonquin territory has a clean and legal title to their real estate until the native land claims are finally settled.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by m0nkyman

Actually, legally it *is* their land. They have chosen not to pursue claims against privately held land in the area that is their unceded territory. Nobody in Algonquin territory has a clean and legal title to their real estate until the native land claims are finally settled.

Exactly. Which by all definitions I've read means that it isn't legally their land.

[rocketphish]

Windmill chases glory at Chaudiere Islands, Lebreton Flats

By Jon Willing, Ottawa Sun
First posted: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 11:11 AM EST | Updated: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 07:14 AM EST

Windmill Developments is making a power play to become the city’s most influential builder.

Jeff Westeinde, one of the company’s founding partners, confirmed Tuesday that Windmill has partnered with the Ottawa Senators in the hockey club’s bid to build an arena on Lebreton Flats.

That’s as much as Westeinde wanted to say about the partnership. His focus was on announcing the name of Windmill’s $1-billion mixed-use development on the old Domtar properties spanning the Ottawa River, just north of the Flats.

Windmill chose the name Zibi, the Algonquin name for river, from 200 entries. Patrick Henry of the Canadian Canoe Foundation pitched the winning name.

The developer wanted a name that didn’t require translation between English and French, although all the signs on the site will include both official languages and the Algonquin language.

“The idea of honouring Algonquin culture in some way was very important as well,” Westeinde said during the announcement, in one of the old industrial buildings along the Ottawa River in Gatineau.

Dream Unlimited, which helped create Toronto’s Distillery District, has partnered with Windmill on Zibi.

Renovations of the industrial buildings begin in the summer. The sales centre will open soon.

Windmill hasn’t officially started marketing the project, but Westeinde said the company has received calls from businesses wanting in.

“We’re talking to a couple of brew pubs, a catering company, a coffee company, spa, a number of offices that want to locate here. You’ll see a very vibrant quarter with those types of businesses and then follow with some residential and carry on from there over the course of the next 10-15 years,” he said.

The refurbished industrial buildings in Gatineau will be ready in 2016.

“Anything from the turn of the century that has that real old character, that’s what we want to renovate,” Westeinde said.

And now it looks like Windmill has another huge task at hand.

Windmill has gained respect in the capital for its sustainable approach to development, so it’s no surprise that the Sens teamed up with the developer to compete in the Battle for the Flats. The other shortlisted consortia are led by Claridge Homes, Devcore Group and Focus Equities.

All preliminary submissions for the Flats development include residential and commercial components.

Windmill managed to pull off an unimaginable task with Zibi: Getting two city governments and the National Capital Commission to sign off on the plan within roughly one year. Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson and Gatineau Mayor Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin are equally surprised it happened so quickly. The Ottawa portion rezoning is under appeal at the Ontario Municipal Board.

[email protected]
Twitter: @JonathanWilling

http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/02/24/live-sneak-peek-at-ottawas-domtar-redevelopment

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

I don't mean that Quebec should feel more guilt than the English in terms of treatment of Natives peoples of Canada. I agree it is likely the opposite.
But in the Rest of Canada many of our ancestors had not heard of Canada when the land had already been "stolen" and Natives all but wiped out. To the original point I can say with certainty that I don't have any native blood because I can trace all my ancestors directly back to the old country where they hadn't even heard of Canada probably not long before they came here. This is also the case for many of my friends and colleagues (most of whom aren't even European, let only French or British).

[Catenary]

I'm intrigued by the "Capital Loop" mentioned on the transit map slide in the video/presentation. I'm picturing a service like Washington DC's Circulator bus. In Washington, transit services are run by the regional government, however the local government runs additional Circulator buses under contract to FIRST Transit. These buses are $1, serve simple routes and are widely used by tourists who don't want to try and understand local buses. The system has been a great success since it's introduction. In Ottawa, a simple bus that hit the tourist sites on both sides of the river would also better integrate both both cities and help transit between the two downtowns. It would also seem to fall into the NCC's purview.

[kwoldtimer]

Yeah, I don't see the connection between having aboriginal blood and a guilt complex. Nor between having aboriginal blood and NOT having a guilt complex for that matter.

[ACmodels]

Originally Posted by Catenary

I'm intrigued by the "Capital Loop" mentioned on the transit map slide in the video/presentation. I'm picturing a service like Washington DC's Circulator bus. In Washington, transit services are run by the regional government, however the local government runs additional Circulator buses under contract to FIRST Transit. These buses are $1, serve simple routes and are widely used by tourists who don't want to try and understand local buses. The system has been a great success since it's introduction. In Ottawa, a simple bus that hit the tourist sites on both sides of the river would also better integrate both both cities and help transit between the two downtowns. It would also seem to fall into the NCC's purview.

I believe the loop should be rail not bus, LRT or streetcar it should be something like this.



Image came from: http://www.transitottawa.ca/2010/05/building-ottawa-and-gatineau-together.html

Even monorail!!


Image came from: http://www.peoplefood.org/CCC/NCC/NCC-Jun18.htm

* This images are not mine

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

Such undercurrents of ignorance and old school Canadian racism:

Yup! That's the Canada I know. Grew up in a small town with a large First Nations population- the — I've heard, disgusting.

We have this facade about Canada.

Oh —? You appropriated one of our words to name a billion dollar development of the landmark neighbourhood that could represent the indigenous Nations in the capital of this federation- putting condos for the upper middle class and elites; but it's cool- other opportunities, other opinions, don't matter cause — the Natives am I right?

Hopefully, when the time comes to develop Victoria Island we do it right and it's not an after thought- do I have any faith in that? Not really.

Learn your history...
----
Though I do support this development and would love to live here- just raising my voice in response to this kind of talk

Don't see how this is considered a racist comment. If we were talking about Lansowne Park and the Glebe and I replaced "Aboriginal" with "NIMBY", would I still be racist?

"No matter what we do, the NIMBYs will never be happy, so why bother? "

As for the "I don't complain about the — my ancestors went through", I think OTSkyline hit it on the head. At some point you have to stop dwindling on ancient history and move on (again, not including everything the Aboriginals went through; those who suffered in living history, such as those who were forced into Residential Schools, should be fully compensated). Jews moved on from the holocaust, Algonquins need to move on from land "stolen" by a more powerful nation.

My problem isn't with Aboriginals, but with uncompromising members of society who oppose anything and everything unless it is done their way. That goes for NIMBYs, Douglas Cardinal (in this particular matter) and Conservatives.

Just to be clear, I am not under the assumption that all Indigenous people oppose everything. I know a lot of them, as 1overcosc mentioned, support t the project.

The fact is that the Chaudière Lands are privately owned by a development company in this capitalist country. They do not owe anything to anyone other than Domtar, the previous owner. They do not have to consult with the Aboriginals, French-Canadians or Anglo-Canadians. They are doing it out of respect.

As for Victoria Island, I would not be opposed to the Feds handing it over to the Algonquins and contribute to an Indigenous Centre. My only condition would be the preservation of the Carbide Mill.


Back to the subject at hand, I believe now is the absolute best time to invest in the tram loop around the two downtowns. From everything I've heard, I'm sure that Windmill, and maybe even other Rendez-Vous Lebreton parteners, would be willing to contribute to the project.

[rocketphish]

Kitigan Zibi chief says he won't support Windmill development

Elizabeth Payne, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: February 25, 2015, Last Updated: February 25, 2015 7:01 PM EST

The choice of an Algonquin word — Zibi — for the new urban community on the former Domtar lands, is not sitting well with the chief of Algonquin band that bears the same name.

Gilbert Whiteduck, chief of the Kitigan Zibi reserve located in Maniwaki, said elders did not approve Windmill Development’s use of the word, and proper protocols were not used to seek that approval.

Its use, he said Wednesday, implies the Kitigan Zibi band endorses the massive urban renewal project on Chaudière and Albert islands and the nearby Quebec shoreline, which he said is not the case.

“(It is) once again, by a corporation, the appropriation of our Anishinaabe language.”

Whiteduck said the name was included in a document that Kitigan Zibi received from Windmill. The band has not yet decided whether it will support the development on land considered sacred to Algonquins, but Whiteduck has.

“I have now concluded it is not something I would be prepared to support,” he said.

“I weighed what would be best: condo buildings that would be sticking out of a very unique, significant, historical and spiritual place for the Algonquins, or would we be better served to have this wonderful location a natural place to be shared with all Canadians and with people around the world.”

Whiteduck called plans for the development a “missed opportunity for Canada.” He said he would like to see it returned to its natural state, under the stewardship of First Nations.

Whiteduck said he passed his view along to Windmill partner Jeff Westeinde during a “good, respectful” discussion this week.

“I told him after lengthy reflection I have now concluded it is not something I would be prepared to support. I don’t think it is the way to go.”

Whiteduck said he is speaking for himself, not for council, which could decide to support the project.

Whiteduck said Kitigan Zibi is the only band that spells the Algonquin word for river as zibi, which is the spelling of the new community. Other communities spell it with an S (“sibi”).

Kitchissippi, the name of a City of Ottawa ward, means “big river” and represents another spelling of the word. The use of the spelling Zibi by Windmill, Whiteduck said, closely associates Kitigan Zibi with the project.

At the unveiling of the name and the launch on Tuesday of the $1.2-billion urban renewal project’s first phase, Jonathan Westeinde said the name reflects on key aspects of the project — the river and the land’s Algonquin heritage.

Developers have worked to engage Algonquin communities on both sides of the river.

Whiteduck said he has spoken with both Jeff and Jonathan Westeinde about the project. “They are nice guys, they are respectful, they don’t want any difficulties, I understand that.”

The name was selected by Windmill after a contest. Patrick Henry, founder of the Canadian Canoe Foundation, was offered a prize for coming up with the winning name. He asked that the money be given to a canoe trip being taken by youth from Kitigan Zibi and Chelsea-Wakefield instead.

Scott Duncan, one of the organizers of the trip, said participants from Kitigan Zibi asked that the money not be accepted, however, because they weren’t comfortable taking money from Windmill.

“If Kitigan Zibi folks don’t feel comfortable with accepting money for this, we won’t accept the money,” said Duncan.

Five teenagers from Chelsea and Wakefield and five from Kitigan Zibi are to paddle to Wakefield, where they will be joined by others. The group will end up at Victoria Island on Canada Day.

Windmill released a lengthy document on its website this week talking about its engagement with Algonquin communities.

“Given the long history of the mistreatment of First Nations with respect to its people, culture and land, our efforts have been devoted to learning how to engage in a way that is meaningful and that will lead to mutual trust.

“To the best of our knowledge, we are the only private sector real estate developers that have voluntarily engaged with the Algonquin Nation, and we aspire to co-develop what will eventually be recognized as a new model of co-operation between private-sector developers in Canada and First Nations.”

[email protected]

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/kitigan-zibi-wont-support-windmill-development