PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[hammersklavier]

Coming from a poor background, I can state for a fact that poorer families have a more difficult time parenting. They have to work longer and harder to financially support their families, which means that they have less time to emotionally support them. Oftentimes poorer families are more dependent on extended networks to provide emotional support.

Until and unless this structurally changes -- and the only way it can is to guarantee a living wage for a full day's work -- you're going to continue to have the problem of poorer families not being able to devote as many resources to their kids' education because they have fewer resources to devote. Can we really expect schools to be babysitters?

[1487]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

Coming from a poor background, I can state for a fact that poorer families have a more difficult time parenting. They have to work longer and harder to financially support their families, which means that they have less time to emotionally support them. Oftentimes poorer families are more dependent on extended networks to provide emotional support.

Until and unless this structurally changes -- and the only way it can is to guarantee a living wage for a full day's work -- you're going to continue to have the problem of poorer families not being able to devote as many resources to their kids' education because they have fewer resources to devote. Can we really expect schools to be babysitters?

And the reality is many upper income people dont spend much time with their kids- even though MANY want to get on their soapbox and ignore this fact. Of course if you are a workaholic parent who barely spends time with your kids and you can afford paid help and tutors your kid is probably still likely to have a good shot at success. Especially if they attend a well funded school in which they are surrounded by other upper middle class students.

[1487]

Originally Posted by sayitaintso

Doubtful. You tell me that if you immediately switched school populations there would be clear and immediate results from the populations( Suburban kids getting worse/city kids getting better)? No way. The city schools would become wonderful and the suburban schools would be shite. You can throw as much money as you want but until you address the underlying problems the schools will always be shite. Do Meredith, Penn Alex etc have more money? No they have better students...

Never said any such thing. But I dont accept the premise that you should allow the status quo for what you deem underserving kids since some folks believe they are incapable of learning. MOney does not guarantee better results, but adequate resources and programming do make a difference- which is why the BEST schools outside of the city have highly paid staff, newer buildings, tons of programming and proper staffing levels. Its funny how people say these things dont matter when talking about OTHER people's kids but then place their own kids in districts that provide the very things that you claim don't make a difference in student achievement. Go out to the burbs and see how many families wouldn't mind if you replaced their local school facilties and program with something available in the average Philly neighborhood.

[Outta here]

Originally Posted by allovertown

So considering that we're not getting anywhere, why don't we just leave politics out of this, as many people, myself included, have asked in the past and stick to the topic that we all enjoy and brought us together here in the first place.

Amen !

[1487]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Correlation but not causation. The better facilities, bells and whistles, etc. are primarily the consequence of having residents with a culture more predisposed to better parenting and education, not the cause. This culture helps to attract like-minded people, creating a subculture in the suburban enclave, which happens to correlate with higher wealth. A portion of this wealth is then distributed to the respective school district.

If the philly public schools, in Stenton for example, were given the Lower Marion facilities, you would not see the problem eradicated.

I dont make simplistic arguments. At no point did I make a statement suggesting that better school buildings create future Harvard graduates. I said that successful districts have ALL of the things people like you claim have no bearing on student performance. A culture of success in a school in addition to the resources required to deliver a quality education matter. You could drop the same kids from LM in a barely surviving Philly HS and they wouldnt produce the same results. A strong school environment with adequate resources makes it EASIER for parents to not be involved. The burden for a parent trying to push a child through a school or a school system that is on life support is much higher because to a large degree that parent is going it alone. When your local school has supports, activities, tutoring, counselors and a culture of performance your child is much better positioned for future success- PERIOD. Even if said child has nearly absentee parents who work 10hrs a day they are still surrounded by the tools needed to be successful later in life.

[blorkishdork]

I agree lets get back on topic.

The thing that we as a city need to realize is that schooling is vastly more complicated than throwing money at the problem however, understanding money is necessary.

An aside, as a Lower Merion Grad, I don't remember anyone really hating the old school. Quite frankly most of my friends loved it, it was weird and quirky and had stairwells to no where. It was the politicos that wanted the new school so they could show to prospective residence that they are committed to the schools! Anyway just wanted to defend myself on that point. We're not all stuck up on the mainline, I promise.

[McBane]

I think we can all agree that the current state of our schools needs to improve if Philadelphia is to maintain recently arrived millennials. Now can we move on? We all have different beliefs as to what the core issue is and how to resolve it and there's no need to hash it out on here any further.

This probably belongs in the General Development thread but hopefully this minor piece of news can help us veer back on topic? http://planphilly.com/articles/2015/02/1...ashington-project-zoning-hearing-delayed

Anyone else have some good nuggets of info?

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by McBane

I think we can all agree that the current state of our schools needs to improve if Philadelphia is to maintain recently arrived millennials. Now can we move on? We all have different beliefs as to what the core issue is and how to resolve it and there's no need to hash it out on here any further.

I would also like to get back on topic. But it is sad that we cannot talk about one of the primary factors keeping this city from realizing its potential, its public schools. It started out apolitical, with a link from the CCD. I stated that we are in fact helping to improve the problem now by the influx of people with different attitudes on parenting into the city. Then, Allovertown replied with "total bs." It's not that this is an inherently political topic - it's that whenever anyone even hints at going against the city machine-talking points on schools ($$$$$$$$$$$), you get the usual political "YOU HATE THE POOR" reaction.

Frankly, THAT is BS. Very annoying. It's the nuclear option. And I refuse to stay mum on a huge aspect of this city's potential just because some people on here still have a 1970s view of the world. Probably the same people who were screaming at the SRC hearing yesterday.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Total BS.

Your silver bullet is hilarious and filled with the casually classist and racist connotations of the American right.

Sounds like more crap.

Every time this board gets even remotely political the attitudes thrown around here are pretty disgusting.

Have to agree with Philaw, we should be able to touch on certain subjects without things becoming hysterical.

[ILovePhilly]

Not that anybody here cares because you are (almost) all too busy being out of touch, grasping, anti-progress, have-nots blaming jerks who I can't imagine can even have a positive thought about the City other than for its most phallic attributes...

but Southern Land Company has completed their deal to buy the Castleway Lot on Rittenhouse Square where they've proposed building an enormous apartment tower and tearing down the boarded up historic structure on Sansom Street. This means that Castleway is now out of the picture and Southern Land intends to move quickly, according to the article.

From the Biz Journal

And honestly if you all don't STFU in a hurry I'm outta here. I left the Reddit forum for the same reason.

[AbortedWalrus]

My office keeps shaking from all the pile driving going on at the new 76ers construction site.

[cafeguy]

Originally Posted by ILovePhilly

Not that anybody here cares because you are (almost) all too busy being out of touch, grasping, anti-progress, have-nots blaming jerks who I can't imagine can even have a positive thought about the City other than for its most phallic attributes...

but Southern Land Company has completed their deal to buy the Castleway Lot on Rittenhouse Square where they've proposed building an enormous apartment tower and tearing down the boarded up historic structure on Sansom Street. This means that Castleway is now out of the picture and Southern Land intends to move quickly, according to the article.

From the Biz Journal

And honestly if you all don't STFU in a hurry I'm outta here. I left the Reddit forum for the same reason.

This isn't gonna be quick. Another article has them quoted as saying that they do everything in-house so they are very design-driven. Because of their desire for perfection, they are completely willing to sit on the lot for a couple years before really moving forward. They said they want to talk with the neighborhood and the city to get a better feel for what the community would want (obviously not in terms of scale) so when they do it, they do it right. They are also gonna preserve cafe rittenhouse on sansom!

So, I think we aren't gonna see anything actually proposed for a year or two... then, wait another year for approvals, then another 3 years to be finished. Unfortunately, this will probably be 5 years or so years from now.

[Outta here]

Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus

My office keeps shaking from all the pile driving going on at the new 76ers construction site.

Lean out the window and take some pictures ..... please .
..... Well , maybe not lean out , but some snap shots would be nice .

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus

My office keeps shaking from all the pile driving going on at the new 76ers construction site.

And new uniforms for 2015. And Franklin the new mascot.

Just keeping it lighthearted here, I like development news and looking at all the pretty and interesting pics everyone posts... when it comes to real world issues - some of you seem to be living in a different world.

[ILovePhilly]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

This isn't gonna be quick. Another article has them quoted as saying that they do everything in-house so they are very design-driven. Because of their desire for perfection, they are completely willing to sit on the lot for a couple years before really moving forward. They said they want to talk with the neighborhood and the city to get a better feel for what the community would want (obviously not in terms of scale) so when they do it, they do it right. They are also gonna preserve cafe rittenhouse on sansom!

So, I think we aren't gonna see anything actually proposed for a year or two... then, wait another year for approvals, then another 3 years to be finished. Unfortunately, this will probably be 5 years or so years from now.

Their public drawing shows the Sansom Cafe building is gone but I'd be very happy to have that building remain. I think their sketches are just ideas to generate conversation, which they certainly will!

I'd rather this take 5 years and be done right than be faster and horrible. I'd like to see some expensive materials, NO PARKING, and good density on the square out of this project.

CCD released their housing report yesterday and the only neighborhood where rents went down was Rittenhouse... which is my mind is GREAT news. The more we can bring new residential on the market the better and hopefully rents can stabilize at a more rational amount. A couple hundred new units here would be amazing!

[josef]

Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus

My office keeps shaking from all the pile driving going on at the new 76ers construction site.

Pictures please

[Outta here]

Originally Posted by josef

Pictures please

http://media.nbcphiladelphia.com/images/1200*675/76ers+camden+practice+facility.jpg

Sorry no pictures of the facility ..... But will it be in one of these three parking lots

[McBane]

This would seem to be Southern's most ambitious project to date. I perused their website (Wow - 1911 Walnut is already up there!) and their portfolio is not at all exciting (location, concept, and designs are all "blah"). It's mostly Toll Bros-esque McMansion communities, suburban town centers, and a few mid-rise projects - very little of it in cities.

On the plus side, they did develop 3601 Market; besides proving they can work in Philly, it's by FAR their tallest and most urban project to date. They're definitely a "real" builder, but their urban high rise experience is lacking. I think they can pull it off but am wary of what the design will look like. I'm praying the square is not punished with another faux historical tower. I hope that 1911's prestigious location and the scale of what they're going after is enough to justify a stellar design. Of course after seeing what Robert Stern did w/ 10 Ritt, I have a tinge of doubt.

http://southernland.com/

[josef]

Originally Posted by Outta here

http://media.nbcphiladelphia.com/images/1200*675/76ers+camden+practice+facility.jpg

Sorry no pictures of the facility ..... But will it be in one of these three parking lots

Haha thanks, I meant I'd love to see a picture of the construction happening on the site. I haven't been by there in a while to check it out.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

I would also like to get back on topic. But it is sad that we cannot talk about one of the primary factors keeping this city from realizing its potential, its public schools. It started out apolitical, with a link from the CCD. I stated that we are in fact helping to improve the problem now by the influx of people with different attitudes on parenting into the city. Then, Allovertown replied with "total bs." It's not that this is an inherently political topic - it's that whenever anyone even hints at going against the city machine-talking points on schools ($$$$$$$$$$$), you get the usual political "YOU HATE THE POOR" reaction.

Frankly, THAT is BS. Very annoying. It's the nuclear option. And I refuse to stay mum on a huge aspect of this city's potential just because some people on here still have a 1970s view of the world. Probably the same people who were screaming at the SRC hearing yesterday.

Refuse to stay mum? You really are something else. Can you really not comprehend that education and how to improve it is a bitterly political and divisive topic?

Further, do you also not understand your views are not shared by the vast majority of the people you live amongst?

You characterize my views as being antiquated and yet you don't even know them because I haven't shared how I would fix philadelphia school system. I could share my views and we could try to have a meaningful discussion on the topic but my point is there is probably a better forum for such a discussion.

So for the love of skyscrapers, go mum yourself.