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  #8081  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2015, 2:48 PM
bobg bobg is offline
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Originally Posted by seventwenty View Post
Well, the A Line's cheaper than the CAT in Vienna (assuming you use that instead of the normal train, which is cheaper).

I am trying to find a real list of (American) city center to airport fares. I think Boston was like $2.75 for me to take the Green Line from BU to the airport. Shame my flights never left at a time when I could use the damn train. Fucking Boston and their refusal to have late night trains...

Seattle's about $2.50-$2.75 to SeaTac.
$5 to JFK
$5 to Newark
Interesting cost to LaGuardia
$6.50 or $8 to Philadelphia Airport, depending on whether you buy the ticket on the train or in advance
Portland is indeed $2.50 to PDX
$8.65 from downtown SF to SFO, or $10.05 to Oakland Airport

K done looking because tired. Someone else compare.
JFK and Newark are just the Airtrain costs meaning it costs $5 just to get from the terminal/concourses to the closest train station that will actually get you somewhere. From there you still have to take the LIRR/Subway (JFK airtrain to Jamaica) or NJ Transit/Amtrak (Newark Airtrain to Newark Airport Train Station) to get to anywhere meaningful from there and most of the options (absent the slow E line out of JFK) are more expensive than RTD's train.

Last edited by bobg; Feb 12, 2015 at 3:15 PM.
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  #8082  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2015, 3:42 PM
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^ and it's $2.25 to MDW

Is this about a system that makes sense...or revenue replacement for RTD? Still curious what the cost is for Montbello residents...seems they are getting hosed pretty bad - this is where the zone system actually made sense (despite being a bit confusing).
I'm willing to bet that the $10 for the airport will occur if your final destination, or origin, is the airport. Every other stop will be the regular rail fare.

Is it really accurate to just use the economy lots for price comparison for the train? I would think that since the economy lots will eventually go bye-bye and your parking options are going to be the garages or parking out in BFE at the value lots that it would be more accurate to use the $24/day of the garage for a break-even analysis.
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  #8083  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2015, 4:48 PM
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Yeah, I'm willing to bet that's the case. Since RTD uses fare zones, DIA will just be it's own special zone. If I want to take the A from Stapleton to downtown and back, then I'm sure I'll just be paying the regular fares.
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  #8084  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2015, 5:02 PM
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this will only encourage people to drive...i'd love to see the RTD breakeven analysis. My point is that fi I live in Montbello and take the train 2-3 stops...I'm looking at $10...vs. if somebody comes from downtown or further south, it's still $10 bucks.

is this the new definition of "fare" share?
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  #8085  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2015, 5:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bcp View Post
this will only encourage people to drive...i'd love to see the RTD breakeven analysis. My point is that fi I live in Montbello and take the train 2-3 stops...I'm looking at $10...vs. if somebody comes from downtown or further south, it's still $10 bucks.

is this the new definition of "fare" share?
As I said, it's likely that the only stop that will have the $10 fare is if your destination or origin is DIA. Every other station along the A Line will be the normal rail fare. This is like a lot of other transit systems that have an airport premium.
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  #8086  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2015, 10:36 PM
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An interesting thought as to what we could name RTD short of just "light rail" or "the train" or whatnot. Any ideas?

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/pulse/...gwaEs+WAIISLy912j36WxgAdZNJ&t=1423780330
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  #8087  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2015, 2:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
An interesting thought as to what we could name RTD short of just "light rail" or "the train" or whatnot. Any ideas?
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  #8088  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2015, 2:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
An interesting thought as to what we could name RTD short of just "light rail" or "the train" or whatnot. Any ideas?

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/pulse/...gwaEs+WAIISLy912j36WxgAdZNJ&t=1423780330
I actually wrote RTD about this and they flat out rejected the idea. Always either out of poor decisions or cheaping out RTD consistently disappoints. I've been here for 10 years and I've never heard anyone call it "the Ride." I told them that I think the system should be branded Fastracks, which I think is akin to system names like Bart, the loop, the T, Subway etc. I thinkFastracks is a great name (yes I know it's now the project name) and believe that people would say "I'm going to take Fastracks to the show or the airport. RTD said that they didn't want the rail system differentiated from the bus system and didn't want to pay for a rebranding effort. This is a big mistake as this is the time to do it.
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  #8089  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2015, 5:11 PM
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I don't care what they call it as long as it works. The greatest name and artwork that made grown men weep on the side of the buses here in Orlando wouldn't make them suck any less.
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  #8090  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2015, 5:18 PM
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Call it the ReTra . It's the LoDoesque version of Regional transportation district. Plus it goes with the 70s color scheme and font.
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  #8091  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2015, 9:08 PM
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When talking about the new hotel at DIA is it transportation or development? Well, I find transit issue more interesting so will put it here. This is an interesting article about the new hotel with some facts I didn’t know about.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/loc...ternational-airport-westin-hotel-project
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  #8092  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2015, 9:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taylor23 View Post
When talking about the new hotel at DIA is it transportation or development? Well, I find transit issue more interesting so will put it here. This is an interesting article about the new hotel with some facts I didn’t know about.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/loc...ternational-airport-westin-hotel-project
Ehhh both? Cross-post it?
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  #8093  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2015, 9:45 PM
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I would say the hotel is development, while the rail station is transportation. But I'm not going to move occasional borderline posts unless they completely bog down a thread for multiple pages.
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  #8094  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2015, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taylor23 View Post
When talking about the new hotel at DIA is it transportation or development? Well, I find transit issue more interesting so will put it here. This is an interesting article about the new hotel with some facts I didn’t know about.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/loc...ternational-airport-westin-hotel-project
Before I turn the page on Cirrus I'd like to say THANKS. That's a terrific piece by Deb Stanley and 7News Denver. Nice coverage and presentation and little things I learned. This one's my fav.
Quote:
Secret No. 2: All of the rooms on the angle/slanted part of the hotel are suites. This is a picture of a living room in a suite.

"The suites benefit from that design," explained Stu Williams, senior vice president for hotel and transit and special projects at DIA.
And nobody can tell the guests of those suites whether the night they stay there will be the night that side of the building falls down. Engineers? Pshaw... after the collapse they'll tell you "That wasn't supposed to happen."

I didn't realize (or had forgotten) that the hotel rooms only occupied the top 8 floors of 14. Article does a nice job of explaining the hotel's layout.
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  #8095  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2015, 6:47 AM
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Having recently made reference to Congressman Mike Coffman, I'll drop this fun tidbit here. All the way from the Cincinnati Business Journal by Barrett J. Brunsman

Former P&G chief to congressman: 'I ran a large company, sir, what have you done?'
Quote:
Bob McDonald, former CEO of Procter & Gamble and now secretary of the troubled U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, returned fire today after taking flak from a member of Congress.

Rep. Mike Coffman, a Colorado Republican, accused McDonald of "glossing over the extraordinary problems confronted by your department."

McDonald remained calm as he replied, "I've run a large company, sir, what have you done?"

Coffman, an Army veteran, previously ran a property management firm in Aurora, Colo., that had more than 20 employees. P&G has 118,000 employees worldwide.
I LMAO. All due respect to the Congressman from the great state of Colorado but the troubled agency was fortunate to find somebody of McDonald's stature willing to take on that Big Mess. Just to review McDonald was approved last July according to WaPo.
Quote:
The Senate on Tuesday unanimously confirmed former Procter & Gamble chief Robert McDonald to head the troubled Department of Veterans Affairs as the agency’s next secretary.

Tuesday’s vote represented a rare example of swift, bipartisan action by the Senate to address pressing problems. Obama nominated McDonald on June 30, and the Senate Veterans Affairs gave him a warm reception during his confirmation hearing last week.
I know these Congressional Hearings are mostly Three Ring Circuses for generating soundbites and harassing the opposition party but I'm a little surprised the Congressman didn't show a little more deference to a well-known and respected Republican donor.

But it got even worse:
Quote:
Coffman cited the VA hospital in Denver as an example of the problems...

"This is a department mired in bureaucratic incompetence and corruption," Coffman said. "I think the public relations is great today, but there's no substance. There is no substance."

McDonald interjected, "I'm highly offended by your comments, Mr. Coffman."

But the congressman continued to disparage McDonald.

"I fundamentally believe that, as unfortunate as it is, at the end of the day, at the end of this president's term, that you will not have made a difference in changing the culture of this organization by virtue of your glossing over its problems," he said.

McDonald, a Republican, was nominated by President Barack Obama, a Democrat.

"I've been here six months," McDonald said to the congressman. "You've been here longer than I have. If there's a problem in Denver, I think you own it more than I do."
YIKES!
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  #8096  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2015, 3:10 AM
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When it comes to transit and transportation I'm still figuring things out as I go. Keith Laing at "The Hill" has a nice article that both fills in some blanks:
Quote:
The transit subsidy was established during the Reagan administration in 1983. The rule requires that 20 percent of all revenue that is collected from the 18.4-cents-per-gallon federal gas tax be diverted to a mass transit account within the Department of Transportation's Highway Trust Fund.

The remaining 80 percent of the gas tax money that is collected is used to pay for road and bridge projects.

The federal government normally spends about $50 billion per year on infrastructure projects, but the gas tax only brings in about $34 billion annually typically. Lawmakers have turned to other areas of the federal budget in recent years to close the gap.
and coverage of early posturing towards a new transportation bill.
Quote:
Several GOP lawmakers suggested during a hearing on U.S. infrastructure funding this week that eliminating the provision that requires 20 percent of all gas tax revenue that is collected to be set aside for transit projects would be a way to boost the nation's spending on roads and bridges.

Foxx added that most of the money in the Obama administration's $478 billion infrastructure funding proposal was for road projects, even as he argued that the transit funding was important.

"The bill we are discussing and that we will put out to you shortly is a $478 billion bill," he said. "Now, there is a 29 percent increase in the transit allocation, but the highway allocation is increased over a much larger baseline. So out of $478 billion bill, there is $317 billion of it that's dedicated to highways."
I assume the President's proposal is for the typical 5-year period. Using my trusty $7 calculator, if you add a dime to the gas tax that would add over $18 billion in revenue (in theory). This would at a minimum make the fund once again self supporting at current spending.

The President is proposing to nearly double the current spending which would help a lot but hardly solves the backlog of infrastructure needs. I know the AGC (Assoc. Gen. Contractors) back the proposal (LOL). Within a couple of months we should have an idea where they'll go with this year's bill.
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  #8097  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2015, 8:14 PM
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Moving to Chapter Two towards Federal transportation funding...

C. Kenneth Orski has a (somewhat) interesting article at Planetizen HERE. It does clarify one thing for me:
Quote:
The (President's) proposed budget would fund infrastructure through a mandatory 14 percent tax on accumulated overseas earnings of U.S. companies (regardless of whether the earnings are repatriated or not).

The administration's proposal would bring in $238 billion which, combined with $240 billion from the Highway Trust Fund, would fund a $478 billion six-year surface transportation bill. At $80 billion a year, the program would be spending twice as much as under current law.
Orski goes on to make the case for states assuming more responsibility (than in the past). He lists 15 "Can Do" states that are moving to do this. He makes several assumptions that are premature at best. His Can Do states are (mostly) an example of states that are grappling with transportation funding. Proposals aren't the same as approved measures. He does at least add this one key point.
Quote:
That is not to say that states should bear the full burden of covering the funding shortfall. "Action at the state level must not be interpreted as an invitation for Congress to completely transfer the federal transportation program to state and local governments," testified Alabama Governor Robert Bentley on behalf of the National Governors Association at a January 28 Senate hearing on the transportation reauthorization
Keith Laing in another good article at The Hill highlights some of Secretary Foxx's good points HERE.
Quote:
Foxx told members of the House Transportation Committee, “Our country is too great to allow our infrastructure to fall apart.”
“We must do something,” he said. “At a time when we should be building more, we’re building less. Instead of saying ‘build, build, build,’ Congress has been saying ‘stop.’ ”

Congress has approved only a series of temporary infrastructure funding patches since a 2005 transportation bill expired in 2009, including an $11 billion measure scheduled to expire in May.

Foxx said Wednesday that the patches do not provide enough money for states and local governments to finance badly needed long-range construction project...
It is so strange to have Republicans resisting infrastructure spending. Ever since they made earmarks a big campaign issue of fiscal responsibility (even though they were the cocktail du jour during GWB) they've struggled for a funding solution. Tea Party politics and rhetoric aside, I'm sure there is a growing appetite for more funding among most Republicans.

"Strange bedfellows"

Quote:
lawmakers like Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) rely on the idea of taxing overseas corporate revenue through a process known as “repatriation” to pay for a new round of road projects.
I read recently where Ohio and Kentucky are trying to pull together funding to build a new bridge over the Ohio river. They've yet to qualify for any Federal funding. It's a big clustermess due to the extensive reconfiguring of highways on each side of the bridge. Most states are struggling for transportation funding.

Some assume increasing the gas tax is off the table. I'd guess it may be the easy fall-back piece they will adopt. Foxx harkens back to the good ole days.
Quote:
“The system needs us to not budget to numbers, it needs us to budget to results,” he said. “The Highway Trust Fund balance is a number. It is not an outcome.”
I still think the chances look good.
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  #8098  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2015, 4:21 AM
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  #8099  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2015, 5:01 AM
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Originally Posted by seventwenty View Post
Raising fares on public transportation travel such as this is essentially a tax hike on those who travel with such..... and since those with lesser incomes are usually a majority of those who use public transportation, fare hikes on public transportation is essentially aiming to be a poor tax.

Economics 101 states that as price increases, demand decreases.... and vice versa. If RTD is somehow in need of more revenue, committing to lower fares (and better service) is a better option to consider since this will increase demand, and at some point more users, even with the lower fare, could easily produce more revenue overall than having higher fares with less users. Commercial air carriers around the world learned this lesson a long time ago.

Yes, there are factors such as price elasticity and scale of economy that play along with this, but still it's a shame to see an RTD bus at a reasonable hour in the middle of the city pass by and inside are only about 3 passengers...... 3 times the $2.25 fare will bring in $6.75.... but maybe charging a $1.00 fare could just as easily bring in 12 passengers..... and revenue gets doubled.

Boo on RTD if they have to resort to any sort of fare increase.

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  #8100  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2015, 11:36 PM
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The parking at DIA is way too cheap.

People in other cities use mass transit to get to the airport because of the sheer expense of parking,the traffic getting to the airport (c'mon guys, traffic on I-70 from the mousetrap east is nothing compared to most big cities). When the outlying lots are $25 and up a day you think twice about parking. At that price, you take mass transit, uber, a taxi, etc.

Our garage, at $23/day, is a ridiculous bargain. You can park in a covered spot within a few hundred yards of the entrance. Go there during peak travel times and the garages and economy lots are all filled or nearly filled. They need to raise rates and/or implement demand pricing. If a for-profit enterprise was in charge of parking out there, can you imagine how much revenue they would be generating?

Actually its not too different than $1/hr parking downtown. We have subsidized the crap out of it and are encouraging people to drive everywhere and all the time.

Denver needs to get with the times and raise rates. They'll take in more revenue and ridership will increase on mass transit.
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