London Public Transit - Page 19

MrSlippery519 · #**361** Posted **Jan 28, 2015, 2:14 PM**

Glad to see some real vision for a change, if the city could really get this moving and only end up paying 1/3rd it should be a no brainier to start immediately.

Of course there is a massive amount of planning to even get started but this sounds positive no question.

GreatTallNorth2 · #**362** Posted **Feb 4, 2015, 8:24 PM**

Is anyone going to the "Shift" event tonight at the Central Library? I will be going to hear Hazel and the rest of the presentation. I am sure it will be interesting.

ssiguy · #**363** Posted **Feb 9, 2015, 7:32 AM**

Did you go? Anything relevant actually happen or plans laid out?

GreatTallNorth2 · #**364** Posted **Feb 10, 2015, 12:33 AM**

Yes I went and thought it was a good evening. There was a bit of an open house from 5:00 -7:00 pm where there were politicans, city planners, etc. answering people's questions. I spoke with Sean Galloway - London's urban design guy and some of the other planners.

Then from 7:00 to about 9:00 pm in the Wolfe Performance hall, there was the head of the Canadian Urban Transit group, a planner/professor from UWaterloo and Hazel McCallion. They were all great speakers and were selling the audience on the benefits of rapid transit. The guy from Waterloo spoke a lot about the process the Region of Waterloo went through and the benefits they are already reaping. Hazel McCallion basically said that Mississauga was way behind in rapid transit and are just only now getting the act together. Let me add that Hazel McCallion is a very witty speaker and full of life for her age. I can see why she was voted in year after year. Lastly there was a Q&A where the audience could ask the panel any question they wanted.

The evening was not really about which form of RT London will choose, but rather selling the city on the idea of RT. Which form of RT will be decided later. Let's just say that LRT is getting a lot more thought than before. The past couple of years, it seems like the LTC had decided that BRT was London's only option, but from what I understand, city planners like LRT (John Fleming, Sean Galloway). So, overall a good night and positive for London.

haljackey · #**365** Posted **Feb 10, 2015, 4:13 PM**

Thanks for the report!

I'm on team LRT too. No matter how nice you present it, BRT is just bus service. No one really likes buses. LRT is a much nicer way to travel for passengers, and despite its much higher construction costs, its benefit to the surrounding area could pay for it many times over.

GRT (Grand River Transit) has roughly half the ridership of the LTC despite being in a more populous area and with arguably better routes. It puzzles me how they greenlit LRT in Waterloo Region but we're not really thinking about it here.

One word: vision. FLEX / BRT is a start, so at least we got that going for us.

swimmer_spe · #**366** Posted **Feb 10, 2015, 5:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by haljackey

Thanks for the report!

I'm on team LRT too. No matter how nice you present it, BRT is just bus service. No one really likes buses. LRT is a much nicer way to travel for passengers, and despite its much higher construction costs, its benefit to the surrounding area could pay for it many times over.

GRT (Grand River Transit) has roughly half the ridership of the LTC despite being in a more populous area and with arguably better routes. It puzzles me how they greenlit LRT in Waterloo Region but we're not really thinking about it here.

One word: vision. FLEX / BRT is a start, so at least we got that going for us.

How long has the 90 and 91 routes been running? How full are they?

Those 2 lines, if made into LRT would do much for the LTC and the city on a whole to improve traffic.

Is the 90/91 routes BRT yet, or do they just run with traffic?

jaradthescot · #**367** Posted **Feb 10, 2015, 6:08 PM**

Just an express bus route that runs with traffic. Also only runs during peak hours, if I'm not mistaken, but initial reports were that it was a huge success (at least the 90. I know nothing of the 91). This city is dying for LRT and it doesn't even know it.

GreatTallNorth2 · #**368** Posted **Feb 10, 2015, 9:10 PM**

Pimpmasterdac · #**369** Posted **Feb 11, 2015, 1:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

How long has the 90 and 91 routes been running? How full are they?

Those 2 lines, if made into LRT would do much for the LTC and the city on a whole to improve traffic.

Is the 90/91 routes BRT yet, or do they just run with traffic?

Here is a post in September about the 90 & 91 routes in detail. They are not BRT, they run with common traffic no dedicated lanes or advanced transit signals. 90 only runs weekdays 7am to 7pm. 91 only runs weekdays 7am to 11am then resume from 2pm to 7pm AND only from Sept. 1 to April 25.

---

IMO LRT shows more of commitment to RT and public transit in general for London. LRT means the city has to lay down rail, put overhead catenary wire and buy specialized LRT trains. Its a real capital investment that cannot easily or cheaply be undone. With BRT its buses (perhaps articulated) on standard (but segregated) roads. If the service is a flop, or city backs away from the idea it could easily get rid of dedicated lanes and make the HOV or standard lanes without as much trouble as LRT ROW would.

Ultimately though, I don't think the method of BRT vs LRT will be the deal breaker, rather its the amount of expropriations that will be RTs biggest hurdle. More established homes and business will be affected by this than the planned in-London 402 highway. If council has the balls to press this through, then it's a go, if they buckle to the inevitable protests then we're fucked.

HillStreetBlues · #**370** Posted **Feb 11, 2015, 1:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by haljackey

GRT (Grand River Transit) has roughly half the ridership of the LTC despite being in a more populous area and with arguably better routes. It puzzles me how they greenlit LRT in Waterloo Region but we're not really thinking about it here.

Minor quibble: you're right that GRT doesn't have as much ridership as LTC, but it's more than half. GRT carries about 40,000 riders a day, and LTC about 60,000.

Note that GRT has operated iXpress since 2005. That's not quite BRT (it does not have dedicated rights-of-way), but it is an express bus service, and explicitly followed the path that the LRT (the Ion) was intended to. LTC has had some express bus service for a while, but not as long and not branded uniquely. A lot of support for Ion in Waterloo, I think, came from the massive awareness of the utility of rapid transit through the iXpress brand.

GreatTallNorth2 · #**371** Posted **Feb 11, 2015, 6:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues

Minor quibble: you're right that GRT doesn't have as much ridership as LTC, but it's more than half. GRT carries about 40,000 riders a day, and LTC about 60,000.

Note that GRT has operated iXpress since 2005. That's not quite BRT (it does not have dedicated rights-of-way), but it is an express bus service, and explicitly followed the path that the LRT (the Ion) was intended to. LTC has had some express bus service for a while, but not as long and not branded uniquely. A lot of support for Ion in Waterloo, I think, came from the massive awareness of the utility of rapid transit through the iXpress brand.

^Very fair points. London's transit system has been in shambles for so long, they have no clue what branding is. I think we still have some of the orange colour buses from like 25 years ago and they never painted them to match the green and blue design. It kind of seems like the 90/91 routes are afterthoughts - not much marketing, etc. Possibly the dumbest idea that LTC had a few years ago was having a park and ride in Old East, so you drive to old east (blocks from downtown) and then take a bus to downtown. What were they thinking? Proper park and ride facilites are necessary, but should be located at the outskirts of the city - North, South, East and West. It should have free parking and then a fare to get downtown. I'm hoping the mindless LTC of the past is well behind us now and we can move forward.

tyeman200 · #**372** Posted **Sep 11, 2015, 9:07 PM**

A couple new things I noticed with the LTC. I was reading an article about rapid transit here and the plan to have 2 'L' shaped corridors as use for ths development.

http://www.lfpress.com/2015/05/22/city-h...of-londons-proposed-rapid-transit-system

Quote:

In a city with about 40 transit routes, the future may be built around two main corridors.

London’s $380-million vision for a rapid-transit system is coming into sharper focus, with city hall set to announce a pair of L-shaped routes that would be the heart of the massive overhaul, The Free Press has learned.

The so-called “preferred corridors” — recommended over several options after city officials gathered input from thousands of citizens — would run:

-From the Masonville Place area along Richmond St., past Western University to the core, and east to Fanshawe College.
-From the White Oaks Mall area along Wellington Rd. to the core, and west to the intersection of Wonderland Rd. and Oxford St.

So-called transit villages, areas where more intense development is planned, would pop up along those routes.

Other traditional routes would be designed to feed those two main paths, so even commuters not along them would have quick access.

The system would run along King St. in the core, making the downtown stretch of Dundas St. bus-free.

I've also looked on their website, and saw that some new routes were added (for the university), as well as the schedules for most of their routes have been updated:

18 Western Road
-Only operates from Monday to Friday during the university semesters.
-Route is roughly 26 mins round trip

29 Capulet
-This route also runs Monday To Friday during the university semesters
-Roughly 32 mins round trip

92 Express
-This new express route runs from Masonville mall, down Adelaide, to Victoria Hospital zone C
-Runs Monday To Friday only, excluding holidays.

The 91 Express route has now become permanent. It used to run only during Fanshawes semesters.

MrSlippery519 · #**373** Posted **Oct 7, 2015, 2:56 PM**

Minor note from Trudeau's visit to London, good to see someone at least acknowledge the light rail support.

http://www.lfpress.com/2015/10/07/trudeau-on-rapid-transit-yes

I assume we wont here a lot more from the "shift" plan until after the election

manny_santos · #**374** Posted **Oct 12, 2015, 10:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyeman200

A couple new things I noticed with the LTC. I was reading an article about rapid transit here and the plan to have 2 'L' shaped corridors as use for ths development.

I've also looked on their website, and saw that some new routes were added (for the university), as well as the schedules for most of their routes have been updated:

18 Western Road
-Only operates from Monday to Friday during the university semesters.
-Route is roughly 26 mins round trip

29 Capulet
-This route also runs Monday To Friday during the university semesters
-Roughly 32 mins round trip

92 Express
-This new express route runs from Masonville mall, down Adelaide, to Victoria Hospital zone C
-Runs Monday To Friday only, excluding holidays.

The 91 Express route has now become permanent. It used to run only during Fanshawes semesters.

Finally, they're using route 18 again. It's been over 20 years since 18 Orchard Park became 31 Orchard Park on a new alignment.

The proposed LTC changes are designed to screw over Byron. They're proposing to eliminate the 8 Riverside (to River Bend) and split the 17 Oxford West into an A and B route, with 40 minute (!) frequency to Byron. The only other option will be the woefully slow 5 Springbank, which takes 40 minutes to get to downtown from Griffith and Baseline.

When I still lived in Byron, frequency of service for LTC routes was good. Whatever idiot came up with the new idea has no idea of the coming tsunami of elderly people in that area. My parents are now approaching 70 and want to stay in Byron, but if either of them have to give up driving, this will be very isolating compared to what was available less than 10 years ago.

I am so thankful to now live in Toronto where we have a world class transit system. London, if you want young professionals to stay or to come back and pay some taxes, then stop this war on public transit. It's too late to bring me back, but there's thousands of current high school and university students you can demonstrate a commitment to public transit to. Otherwise, London is going to die while companies and workers continue to flock to Toronto.

HillStreetBlues · #**375** Posted **Oct 13, 2015, 5:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny_santos

The proposed LTC changes are designed to screw over Byron. They're proposing to eliminate the 8 Riverside (to River Bend) and split the 17 Oxford West into an A and B route, with 40 minute (!) frequency to Byron. The only other option will be the woefully slow 5 Springbank, which takes 40 minutes to get to downtown from Griffith and Baseline.

Branching is not a good idea, and 40 minute service might as well be never for anyone with a choice. 20 minute frequency along Commissioners isn't good enough, either.

River Bend could probably lose all of its service (I know that's impossible since LTC has coverage standards it has to meet regardless of woefully low density). Byron shouldn't suffer this kind of reduction: you're right that there are many older people in the area for whom transit will become more important.

I used to routinely take the 17 and 5 from Byron growing up. For a kid and a teenager, there seemed to be good options. Probably not the case after these cuts.

tyeman200 · #**376** Posted **Oct 17, 2015, 9:42 PM**

I found some information on the proposed changes to the routes mentioned above, as well as some other ones.

http://www.ltconline.ca/2016ServicePlan.htm

As mentioned above, they want to eliminate the 8 Riverside, and replace it with the 17A and B.

In the south area of the city, they want to terminate the 1 Kipps Ln/Thompson downtown, and use the 4A to replace the 1A and 1B routes. The 4A would go down Baseline instead, do the loop, and come back. The 26 Jalna will continue down Dundalk, instead of turning on Southdale, and then onto Ferndale. So from my understanding of it, the 4A would not be serving the white oaks area anymore.

They also want to terminate the 17 Oxford West at Fanshawe, eliminating the Clark Rd. Service, Terminate the 14 Highbury at Fanshawe, and extend the 32 and 3 Buses to replace the 17's route.

There are a bunch of other proposed changes, too many to list, so take a look!

Pimpmasterdac · #**377** Posted **Oct 21, 2015, 2:39 AM**

Good proposed changes by the LTC!

Rationalizes a lot of routes that are odd spurs and detours. Eliminates some redundant routes that had parallel routes a street or 2 away. Noticed these on facebook when going though, had some local yokels complaining how they now have to walk a extra min or 2.

Hopefully LTC plows forward with these changes. Really seems to be a more open and innovative LTC since Larry "The Caveman" Ducharme was retired.

HillStreetBlues · #**378** Posted **Oct 22, 2015, 12:39 PM**

These changes seem guaranteed to draw the ire of the riders, without actually going very far to rationalize our many circuitous routes.

I'm looking at the North Area, for instance, and the proposed change is to take the 34 off of Fanshawe Park Road, and instead route it down Louise Boulevard (if you don't know what that is, it's because very few people who do not actually live on that street would), at the same time reducing frequency from 30 minutes to 40 minutes. The LTC calls this a "slight" reduction, even though it's twenty-five percent fewer buses each hour. Instead of a mostly useless route along a busy street that serves to shuttle students to UWO, it's going to be a nearly-entirely useless (40 minutes is very poor service) route that diverts onto a residential street.

The obvious thing to do here is to scrap the 34, and divert the resources it consumes to providing frequent service on Richmond- folks at Ambleside would have to walk further, but that would be offset by the fact that their bus comes more frequently than every forty minutes.

Some of the other changes are better. But introducing branching and 'peak-only' routings is bad. We should be moving towards a grid-like system of frequent service on the main corridors. This is just tweaking our terrible local routes and continuing to spread resources too thin to provide meaningful service to almost anyone.

jaradthescot · #**379** Posted **Oct 22, 2015, 3:19 PM**

I feel "peak only" can serve a purpose. I work in the business area between Wellington and Highbury South of Bradley. I take the 30 Newbold which operates only during morning and afternoon rush hour times, and I can't imagine there being any need for it at any other point during the day. I could say it would be nice to have it during lunch, but realistically I'd only use it maybe once a month, at best.

Underground100 · #**380** Posted **Jan 22, 2016, 10:34 PM**

The LTC is meeting on Monday regarding the 2016 service plans, which are out in the link below.

They ditched some of the recommendations the consulting company gave them in 2015, presumably, by public input. And deferred a few plans to 2017.
(I really would have liked to ride the proposed 4A route; I live beside the 1A)

Some of the changes:

1 to retain routing
2C/6A will be introduced in an opposite direction
4A/4B will only apply to the White Oaks loop - 4C will be introduced between Downtown and Fanshawe College
6 frequency will be scaled back, and retain routing
7/8 will be eliminated
10/14 higher frequency, with 14 to retain routing and not travel to Fanshawe College
11 will now be interlined with 22
12/28 routing is not going over well and Lambeth service will undergo close scrutiny for 2017
18 will be eliminated
20 higher frequency
26 will be rerouted to serve the soon-to-be-old 4A in Cleardale
30 to gain more trips in the rush hour
32 will retain routing
34 will remain on Fanshawe Park Road West

http://www.ltconline.ca/agendas/012516vii2.pdf