The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by VIce

If the two lines were to share the tunnel, capacity would only increase marginally. Very, very slightly. Right now the interlined portion the CTrain network is headway limited during rush hour, at the manufacturer's specified 120s: no additional trains can be put on 7th ave. You grade separate them, put them in three platform stations, you get some boost in capacity, but you're back to capacity problems in a few years. That turns a multi-billion dollar investment into a band-aid.

Right, except that the current headway and capacity arrangement is based on the fact that the C-train runs at-grade and has to wait at traffic lights between blocks. This is a totally different kettle of fish from a subway tunnel with zero interference with surface traffic. To add, I'm also suggesting a huge capacity upgrade in the form of 2 platforms per direction.

If you build a station box that can take up to 5 car trains with this sort of arrangement, I'm pretty sure that you can meet any capacity constraint that the C-train will ever encounter in our lifetimes. There are single-line stations on Hong Kong's MTR like Wong Tai Sin that handle around 18,000 people per hour.

[MalcolmTucker]

Who knows about capacity. A big consideration is running 125 m trains just because we wanted to run a single tunnel to ease transfers requires a lot of upgrading on the lines. But it will cost a lot more money for little benefit, which goes against Calgary's entire transit building style. Air conditioning only started to appear in the last 5 years, as did using anything but cash to buy tickets.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Who knows about capacity. A big consideration is running 125 m trains just because we wanted to run a single tunnel to ease transfers requires a lot of upgrading on the lines. But it will cost a lot more money for little benefit, which goes against Calgary's entire transit building style. Air conditioning only started to appear in the last 5 years, as did using anything but cash to buy tickets.

Ya, Calgary's longstanding transit policy has been quantity over quality. Ottawa as well to a lesser extent. Toronto & Montreal seem to be the exact opposite.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

As promised. Apologies for the crappy video quality, my phone is shit.

• Video Link

It looks identical to the new tramways you will find in France, even the yellow bars inside, the seat covers, etc. I found a video showing examples of streetcars similar to this one running in cold temperature and one of them is in Grenoble, I used to use it twice a day for a year so that's why it looks so familiar to me.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by le calmar

It looks identical to the new tramways you will find in France, even the yellow bars inside, the seat covers, etc. I found a video showing examples of streetcars similar to this one running in cold temperature and one of them is in Grenoble, I used to use it twice a day for a year so that's why it looks so familiar to me.

Well it is an Alstom Citadis vehicle, so that makes sense. The Ottawa vehicle is a specially customized variant of the Alstom Citadis 302 (used in Adelaide, Lyon, Bordeaux, Paris (T2 & T7), Valenciennes, Rotterdam, Buenos Aires, Madrid, Melbourne, Nice, Murcia, Barcelona, Jerusalem, and Le Havre) called the Alstom Citadis Spirit. The Spirit is distinct from its 302 predecessor by being adapted for light metro style service (higher speeds and ATC compatibility), North American rail standards, and severe winter weather. Ottawa is currently the only purchaser of the Citadis Spirit, which was made specifically to meet Ottawa's business case. However, Alstom intends to market it to other North American cities as well. I could see Edmonton or Calgary potentially considering it in the future due to its higher speeds than the stock they currently use (the Citadis Spirit will reportedly be the fastest LRT vehicle ever made).

[le calmar]

That's good to know because the ones in France are not very fast and I feared they would be too slow for Ottawa's metro-like system.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by le calmar

That's good to know because the ones in France are not very fast and I feared they would be too slow for Ottawa's metro-like system.

Ya, that was my first reaction too when I heard they chose the Alstom Citadis.

As for the 'fastest LRT vehicle in the world' claim, I've heard it from two sources, but neither of them are expert opinions, so I doubt it's true.

The specifications given are that its max speed is 100km/h. I forget where I saw this but acceleration was quoted as being in the 1.3-1.4m/s^2 range (I think it was 1.34 or something). The average speed given for the Phase 1, is 35km/h, which is faster than the Toronto subway or Montreal metro, and pretty darn fast considering Phase 1 is the central trunk with the closest station spacing, tightest curves, and steepest grades of the ultimate network.

[flipv]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Ya, that was my first reaction too when I heard they chose the Alstom Citadis.

As for the 'fastest LRT vehicle in the world' claim, I've heard it from two sources, but neither of them are expert opinions, so I doubt it's true.

The specifications given are that its max speed is 100km/h. I forget where I saw this but acceleration was quoted as being in the 1.3-1.4m/s^2 range (I think it was 1.34 or something). The average speed given for the Phase 1, is 35km/h, which is faster than the Toronto subway or Montreal metro, and pretty darn fast considering Phase 1 is the central trunk with the closest station spacing, tightest curves, and steepest grades of the ultimate network.

It's really building upon the Transitway. For once in my life I had reliable public transit.

*Edit: forgot about that lovely strike in 2009. Minus 3 points for that!

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by le calmar

It looks identical to the new tramways you will find in France, even the yellow bars inside, the seat covers, etc. I found a video showing examples of streetcars similar to this one running in cold temperature and one of them is in Grenoble, I used to use it twice a day for a year so that's why it looks so familiar to me.

Well I'm really glad that Ottawa's getting their metro/LRT, as they are more than big/dense/prominent enough to warrant it, so congrats to them!

Now to be nitpicky: that is a very boring-looking LRT.
Ultimately, I know that that won't really matter, but it's a shame that it has no pizzaz. The peple of Ottawa have waited so long to not sit in something that looks like a bus on the inside, so where's the sleek LED lighting (perhaps to already be passé in 2018)? I also feel that there should be more Ottawa-inspired accents. Definitely more of a "maple"-look, à la the bombardier trams that were loaned from Belgium during the Vancouver Olympics, with their brown leather straps and mood lighting

[SkahHigh]

New proposal for two tram lines in Eastern Montreal on Pie-IX Blvd and Jean-Talon Street, involving a 1 km expansion of the Blue line (to Pie-IX Blvd) for connectivity purposes. This is great, it connects with two Metro lines and the Mascouche commuter rail line.


https://journalmetrocom.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/carte-sans-encadrecc81.jpeg

[1overcosc]

Isn't PIE-IX planned to have a Viva-style BRT on it?

I fear Montreal is in some sort of endless plans and talk and no action type of space with transit planning...

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Isn't PIE-IX planned to have a Viva-style BRT on it?

I fear Montreal is in some sort of endless plans and talk and no action type of space with transit planning...

the BRT could be replaced with a LRT instead. The Caisse, which manages public pension plans in Quebec, is aiming to complete the projects, worth $5 billion, before the end of 2020, to implement a transit system for the entire island of Montréal.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Isn't PIE-IX planned to have a Viva-style BRT on it?

I fear Montreal is in some sort of endless plans and talk and no action type of space with transit planning...

Yep it is. But they could replace it with an LRT, as the ridership on these lines would be huge...

You are right though, there are lots of proposals but nothing is being announced as of late. Nobody knows what's going to be built and what not, even though we do know there will be massive transit expansions by 2020.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

Yep it is. But they could replace it with an LRT, as the ridership on these lines would be huge...

You are right though, there are lots of proposals but nothing is being announced as of late. Nobody knows what's going to be built and what not, even though we do know there will be massive transit expansions by 2020.

ce n'est pas un petit projet lorsqu'on parle de créer et implenter un nouveau mode de transport en commun, qui passera sur Champlain, dans le West Island et jusqu'à Anjou. Ce LRT sera connecté aux autres plateformes de transport, qui viendra compléter l'offre pour la majeure partie de l'île de Montréal. Avec l'autoroute 19 complétée, on aurait ici un beau corridor pour les gens de la Courrone Nord Est.

Tout planifier prend du temps, on parle ici de plus de 30km de nouvelles lignes. Je suis sûr qu'ils vont arriver avec un projet concret d'ici 1 an. Avec les nouvelles lignes, on pourrait facilement aller chercher un ridership dans les 200-300k. S'ils arrivent avec un système de transit pour l'ensemble de l'île comme on l'a vu précédemment, on pourrait un jour atteindre le 2M de ridership STM Métro+LRT, ça serait incroyable.

[SteelTown]

GO Train extension to Stoney Creek will cost $150 million

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5330290-go-train-extension-to-stoney-creek-will-cost-150-million/

Extending GO Train service beyond the new James Street station to Stoney Creek will cost $150 million.

City transit director Dave Dixon says he recently learned the cost estimate – which includes $35 million for a basic station – from planners with the provincial rapid transit agency Metrolinx, which runs GO.

But there is still no timeline for such a project, he added, and no defined pot of money set aside for expansion beyond James Street and into Niagara.

Metrolinx is working to finish the first phase of a $58-million GO station at James Street North in time for the Pan Am Games in July.

Dixon surprised councillors on Friday with a 10-year plan for local bus service upgrades that includes an express bus connection between the Mountain and the as-yet unconfirmed east end GO station.

Metrolinx has also purchased property along Centennial Parkway, but the ultimate use of the land is still unclear.

The 1.5 acres is near the Centennial Parkway rail bridge, which is being rebuilt with extra track capacity for the anticipated GO expansion into Niagara.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by VIce

If the two lines were to share the tunnel, capacity would only increase marginally. Very, very slightly. Right now the interlined portion the CTrain network is headway limited during rush hour, at the manufacturer's specified 120s: no additional trains can be put on 7th ave. You grade separate them, put them in three platform stations, you get some boost in capacity, but you're back to capacity problems in a few years. That turns a multi-billion dollar investment into a band-aid.

Removing the interlining completely allows both lines to essentially double their carrying capacity - room to grow for years. Transfer stations would likely be through City Hall or the largest mall in downtown - a 100m indoor transfer through a pretty nice space, all-round. The 7th ave portal to the south line is due to stay open, allowing some trains to transfer from the Red to the Blue lines. Removing the interlining has downsides, but its really the only option that makes sense.

I have always been confused with interlining any routes.

I know it is a cost savings measure. However, those costs are now costs, and tomorrow's costs are only going to be higher.

The reality is that when a line reaches capacity at the interlining, then, unfortunately, they cannot increase capacity on each leg if that is at current capacity and still could have more trains per hour added to move even more people.

The lines should cross, and if CT does it right, it would cross twice. Both of those stations would be the busiest.

The north sections should take 8th Ave, while the South and West take the 7th Ave.
7th/9th, and 7th/3rd would be the 2 stations that they would most likely meet near.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

GO Train extension to Stoney Creek will cost $150 million

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5330290-go-train-extension-to-stoney-creek-will-cost-150-million/

Extending GO Train service beyond the new James Street station to Stoney Creek will cost $150 million.

City transit director Dave Dixon says he recently learned the cost estimate – which includes $35 million for a basic station – from planners with the provincial rapid transit agency Metrolinx, which runs GO.

But there is still no timeline for such a project, he added, and no defined pot of money set aside for expansion beyond James Street and into Niagara.

Metrolinx is working to finish the first phase of a $58-million GO station at James Street North in time for the Pan Am Games in July.

Dixon surprised councillors on Friday with a 10-year plan for local bus service upgrades that includes an express bus connection between the Mountain and the as-yet unconfirmed east end GO station.

Metrolinx has also purchased property along Centennial Parkway, but the ultimate use of the land is still unclear.

The 1.5 acres is near the Centennial Parkway rail bridge, which is being rebuilt with extra track capacity for the anticipated GO expansion into Niagara.

that cost seems way too high to me considering that they are already building that yard in Stoney creek. I would think that the only thing required for service would be the station itself..

[SteelTown]

I think a lot of the cost will be repairing and upgrading the rail tracks along a heavy industrial section of Hamilton.

[Beedok]

It's shared rail lines too isn't it? Maybe they have to pay other companies for scheduling delays?

[SteelTown]

^ Yeah there isn't much rail track along the industrial land.