The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[MalcolmTucker]

Yeah, there is no real pressing need for airport rail in Calgary. Would be my lowest priority, especially with all the specialized construction needed the price could be rather high for a really low use link.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Regional Express Rail, yeah. It's a nice bilingual-able term, so we could use it if it catches on in other cities (I'm lookin' at you, Montreal)

Yeah. "Train de banlieue" as an official name for the AMT's regional train system just has to be least marketable public transport name in the world.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Hey, does the Airport line in Toronto count as a rapid transit extension for Toronto? If it does it might mean we have caught and passed Vancouver in Montreal in total trackage (km) once the line opens in the Spring. The Spadina Line extention, 3KM I believe has been delayed until late 2016 or early 2017, so when Vancouver finishes its new line it will / or may have taken the overall lead again.

It probably means that, yes. Although Montreal (after years of having pratically no rapid transit extensions) might go forward with the Blue Line extension (5km), the Train de l'Ouest LRT (25km) and the South Shore LRT (20km) for 2020. So we might finally catch up...

[Innsertnamehere]

The Upx doesn't count as a metro line, no. Its a mixed rail operation, and therefor doesn't qualify as a metro.

Toronto will surpass Montreal in 2016 or 2017 when the 8.6km Spadina subway opens, though Vancouver will stay on top for a while with their 11km evergreen line.

Eglinton also will not technically count as rapid transit, although 11km of it will operate as grade seperated transit, the 8km aboveground section will disqualify it, so after 2017 the next technical extension of Toronto's metro network will come with the Scarborough subway.

In the coming decade Toronto's transit is set to get exponentially better, although it will technically barely expand its rapid transit network. Really comes down to the terms used to compare, if everything currently occurring in the city actually happens Toronto will have the best transit in the country, but would appear to have the worst on paper judging by metro network size.

None of Montreal's LRTs will count as rapid transit, only the blue line extension will count as an extension. Montreal will fall to third place on the list, though the list isn't going to be particularly good at comparing transit networks in the coming decades.

Canada will also get a 4th city on its metro line list, When Ottawa completes its LRT which will qualify as a metro line.

[caltrane74]

Still nice to get that 20 km of underground lines!! With a possible 3 addition km coming from the Scarborough Line. Also nice to have the regional express rail and the airport express rail, because it will provide stops in midtown and Weston with connections to the subway and commuter rail. (I could see Metrolinx relenting and allowing $5-10 dollar fares for one way trips downtown from Bloor-West/Weston Stations) So all in all rail transit is preferred above on street/in traffic transit. Especially true today with our first snowstorm of the year.

Must get downtown underground relief line though, otherwise, people will always complain about Toronto transit.

[GlassCity]

What does mixed rail operation mean? Sharing tracks with freight?

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

What does mixed rail operation mean? Sharing tracks with freight?

I don't understand what Insertnamehere is talking about, I thought new track/rail was added for the UPX/Milton/Kitchener line so that it is completely separated from freight service and is 4 track minimum all the way to the airport. And even still freight would only use the secondary track off peak.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Canada will also get a 4th city on its metro line list, When Ottawa completes its LRT which will qualify as a metro line.

What's different about Ottawa's LRT?

[GlassCity]

Yeah that's what I thought too. I don't consider it a metro anyway just because of the cost and small number of stations. I generally think of express airport links as separate things

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by le calmar

What's different about Ottawa's LRT?

It's fully grade-separated

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The Upx doesn't count as a metro line, no. Its a mixed rail operation, and therefor doesn't qualify as a metro.

Toronto will surpass Montreal in 2016 or 2017 when the 8.6km Spadina subway opens, though Vancouver will stay on top for a while with their 11km evergreen line.

Eglinton also will not technically count as rapid transit, although 11km of it will operate as grade seperated transit, the 8km aboveground section will disqualify it, so after 2017 the next technical extension of Toronto's metro network will come with the Scarborough subway.

In the coming decade Toronto's transit is set to get exponentially better, although it will technically barely expand its rapid transit network. Really comes down to the terms used to compare, if everything currently occurring in the city actually happens Toronto will have the best transit in the country, but would appear to have the worst on paper judging by metro network size.

None of Montreal's LRTs will count as rapid transit, only the blue line extension will count as an extension. Montreal will fall to third place on the list, though the list isn't going to be particularly good at comparing transit networks in the coming decades.

Canada will also get a 4th city on its metro line list, When Ottawa completes its LRT which will qualify as a metro line.

The biggest thing I can see the counts against the UPX rapid transit credentials is the low frequency of service. The minimum for a metro system is generally considered 10 minutes throughout the day except occasionally on peripheral branch lines on off-peak times. But even that's pushing it a bit. For the whole line to have frequency of only 15 minutes all throughout the day is more similar to moderate frequency European commuter rail.

There are a few systems like the Oslo Metro (which started as a series of commuter rail lines connected by a city centre tunnel) that most lines have 15 minute frequency, but most of the system has more than one line serving a particular stretch at once. So very few stations actually have only 4tph connecting it to Central Oslo.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

It's fully grade-separated

At least for now.

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Still nice to get that 20 km of underground lines!! With a possible 3 addition km coming from the Scarborough Line. Also nice to have the regional express rail and the airport express rail, because it will provide stops in midtown and Weston with connections to the subway and commuter rail. (I could see Metrolinx relenting and allowing $5-10 dollar fares for one way trips downtown from Bloor-West/Weston Stations) So all in all rail transit is preferred above on street/in traffic transit. Especially true today with our first snowstorm of the year.

Must get downtown underground relief line though, otherwise, people will always complain about Toronto transit.

While it's true that the Scarborough subway extension would result in an extra 3 km of underground rapid transit, if it goes ahead, it will spell out the decommissioning of 6.5 km of elevated SRT, so the total length of the rapid transit network will fall by 3.5 km.
On that note, I likely don't understand the extent of the technical problems that the SRT is experiencing, but I feel that the situation there is a perfect example of Toronto's (and really all Canadian cities') approach to rapid transit. Instead of building much-needed, previously non-existent lines in dense parts of the city, let's demolish an already-built line in the suburbs and spend all our money putting it underground.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

At least for now.

Don't worry, I know . If in the future it gets any at-grade crossings, it will no longer be a metro.

[GreaterMontréal]

Montréal new LRT will be grade-separated. Lionel-Groulx could become an intermodal station, and the link to the airport will be underground.

2 - LRT or rapid transit service in the A-10/Downtown corridor

The Champlain Bridge reserved bus lane accounts for more than 40,000 trips daily, or the equivalent of the metro yellow line. Given that current infrastructure is at capacity, establishing an LRT or a rapid transit service in the A-10 corridor will increase capacity and allow for rapid travel between the South Shore and downtown Montreal, without the unpredictability of traffic congestion. A partnership office has been set up to identify a rapid transit service solution for the A-10 corridor in consultation with various stakeholders. This office will take particular account of the scenario under consideration for replacing the Champlain Bridge.

http://plan2020.amt.qc.ca/Major+projects

La Caisse is now the partner, LRT on Champlain , LRT de l'ouest,

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by gunnar777

While it's true that the Scarborough subway extension would result in an extra 3 km of underground rapid transit, if it goes ahead, it will spell out the decommissioning of 6.5 km of elevated SRT, so the total length of the rapid transit network will fall by 3.5 km.
On that note, I likely don't understand the extent of the technical problems that the SRT is experiencing, but I feel that the situation there is a perfect example of Toronto's (and really all Canadian cities') approach to rapid transit. Instead of building much-needed, previously non-existent lines in dense parts of the city, let's demolish an already-built line in the suburbs and spend all our money putting it underground.

The Scarborough extension is 7.5km long, not 3, so it's a net addition of 1km.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Don't worry, I know . If in the future it gets any at-grade crossings, it will no longer be a metro.

Phase 2 of the Confederation Line is also fully grade separated.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Phase 2 of the Confederation Line is also fully grade separated.

That's great to hear! I wasn't aware they had it designed that far ahead already.

[softee]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Hey, does the Airport line in Toronto count as a rapid transit extension for Toronto? If it does it might mean we have caught and passed Vancouver in Montreal in total trackage (km) once the line opens in the Spring. The Spadina Line extention, 3KM I believe has been delayed until late 2016 or early 2017, so when Vancouver finishes its new line it will / or may have taken the overall lead again.

I believe the Spadina line extension is 8.6km.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Phase 2 of the Confederation Line is also fully grade separated.

By the same token, the Trillium Line (O-Train) is fully grade separated and will have frequency increased to every 9 minutes later this month. Plans for Phase 2 will also be fully grade separated.