Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

- which would only matter to people arriving at Lougheed by bus or other means (since people already on westbound Expo or Millennium trains will just stay on to Production).

Yes, but that's exactly the reason that interlining of the Bloor and University lines was abandoned in Toronto in 1966.

Passengers did not know which platform to go to catch the "next" train (even though there were flip signs).

It may not be an issue at peak frequency, but if there is 4-5 minutes between trains, going to the wrong platform means a 8-10 minute wait or more depending on the ratio of M-Line and Expo Line trains.

If you "just miss" a train at one platform, do you go down and up to catch the train at the other platform, or wait for the next one at the platform you are on?

i.e. What if the ratio of trains is 3 (M-Line) to 1 (Expo Line), and you are on the Expo Line platform (having just missed a train with doors closed in your face?).

Which also the reason we are puzzled by the switch placement and future platform arrangement at Coquitlam Central.

[dpogue]

Video approaching Lougheed this morning which shows that they're installing the clips for holding down the LIM rail in between the running rails.

Video departing Lougheed showing basically the same thing west of the station.

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Yes, but that's exactly the reason that interlining of the Bloor and University lines was abandoned in Toronto in 1966.

Passengers did not know which platform to go to catch the "next" train (even though there were flip signs).

It may not be an issue at peak frequency, but if there is 4-5 minutes between trains, going to the wrong platform means a 8-10 minute wait or more depending on the ratio of M-Line and Expo Line trains.

If you "just miss" a train at one platform, do you go down and up to catch the train at the other platform, or wait for the next one at the platform you are on?

i.e. What if the ratio of trains is 3 (M-Line) to 1 (Expo Line), and you are on the Expo Line platform (having just missed a train with doors closed in your face?).

Which also the reason we are puzzled by the switch placement and future platform arrangement at Coquitlam Central.

I agree with avoiding having passengers using two platforms for trains serving the same stations when possible. Or at least have it cross-platform.

I saw this happen in New York. I was at 50th Street Station on the Seventh Avenue Subway. This station has four platforms, two on the top level and two on the lower level. Heading southbound the C local trains use the upper platforms with the A Express passing through on the express track non-stop, and the E local trains use the lower platforms. This is operation as the E trains cannot access the upper tracks from the 59th Street subway that is uses to get to Queens. But it does mean I have to pick which platform to wait on with no-idea of how long I have to wait for the trains. After midnight the trains run every 20 minutes, so that's quite a gap if you miss one.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Or they can just look at a map. I really don't think people will have this much trouble with it.

People in BC know how to find trouble with anything. If everything ran perfectly and was easy to use, people would just complain about the color.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by lightrail

I agree with avoiding having passengers using two platforms for trains serving the same stations when possible. Or at least have it cross-platform.

I saw this happen in New York. I was at 50th Street Station on the Seventh Avenue Subway. This station has four platforms, two on the top level and two on the lower level. Heading southbound the C local trains use the upper platforms with the A Express passing through on the express track non-stop, and the E local trains use the lower platforms. This is operation as the E trains cannot access the upper tracks from the 59th Street subway that is uses to get to Queens. But it does mean I have to pick which platform to wait on with no-idea of how long I have to wait for the trains. After midnight the trains run every 20 minutes, so that's quite a gap if you miss one.

Even with trains interlining to Production Way - University, you could keep the station platforms assigned to how they were assigned. Both the "Expo" line and "Millennium" line heading towards Production Way would have passed through Lougheed (westbound) on the Center Track. So one westbound platform. Plus the Platforms for Westbound travel, and travel towards Braid would be the same platforms as they are now (so keeping change at a minimum). The new Platform would be for travel to the new destination.

However, in the document posted, at Lougheed there is no sign for "Platform 3". So does that mean they are going to 2 platform operation?

With the switches set up the way they are, it looks like they have to use the far North Platform for trains to or from Coquitlam. So if they are going with 2 platform operation, then all transfers between Coquitlam and New Westminster will be up and down stairs? And backwards. To keep all trains heading east and west on their respective platforms, The North Platform would be East Bound and the South Platform would be Westbound.

To me it sounds like they are throwing the plan out the window just to accommodate some SFU students.

Wouldn't it be much easier to just change the way the bus works? Have the SFU bus change operation to operating a one way loop.

Have the bus leave Lougheed station, head to Production Way, pick up people there, go to SFU. From SFU you head to Burquitlam station, then to Lougheed. Not only then do you not need to make a transfer if you arrive from the Expo line, but you don't need to transfer to Skytrain for one stop if you arrive on a bus at Lougheed (like the Rapid Bus). Then you can chose what to do. If you want to make a single transfer, get on the bus at Lougheed, if you want to ride the bus for as little as possible get on at Production Way, get off at Burquitlam. And if you did do the latter, all your Skytrain Transfers at Lougheed would be Cross Platform (assuming they go with the original platform Config).

The bus would also work as a very frequent local service along North Road. Yes, to get home you would have to get off Skytrain at Burquitlam, but the bus would be twice as frequent with the same number of drivers than if it were two direction.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

People in BC know how to find trouble with anything. If everything ran perfectly and was easy to use, people would just complain about the color.

I've gotten in trouble for being too cynical in the past, but you're right, perhaps I was giving people a little too much credit there

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

However, in the document posted, at Lougheed there is no sign for "Platform 3". So does that mean they are going to 2 platform operation?

Good catch - possibly.

[GeeCee]

I'd imagine that there are no Platform 3 signs for Lougheed requested in the ROEFI because the signage for that is being supplied under the Evergreen Line contracts.

[officedweller]

Except that Platform 1 is to VCC-Clark and PLatfrom 2 is to Lafarge Lake-Douglas (which would be the Evergreen scope fo work?)
But you'd think they'd label Platform 3 regardless of whether it is actively used in case it is used for a special service.

On my diagram of TransitFreak's, suggestions, the above platforms should be Platform 1 (north platform) and Platform 3 (south platform), with the middle platform being Platform 2.



http://www.translink.ca/~/media/Document...02_RFEOI_Wayfinding%20Signage_FINAL.ashx

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Except that Platform 1 is to VCC-Clark and PLatfrom 2 is to Lafarge Lake-Douglas (which would be the Evergreen scope fo work?)
But you'd think they'd label Platform 3 regardless of whether it is actively used in case it is used for a special service.

On my diagram of TransitFreak's, suggestions, the above platforms should be Platform 1 (north platform) and Platform 3 (south platform), with the middle platform being Platform 2.



http://www.translink.ca/~/media/Document...02_RFEOI_Wayfinding%20Signage_FINAL.ashx

Also interesting that the signage at Production Way only mentions VCC-Clark and Lafarge Lake. No mention of Expo Line to Waterfront, despite being a terminus?

[deasine]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

To me it sounds like they are throwing the plan out the window just to accommodate some SFU students.

Wouldn't it be much easier to just change the way the bus works? Have the SFU bus change operation to operating a one way loop

I don't agree with the language used here, it's no different than some forumers saying UBC is not deservant of rapid transit because they are students.

At the end of the day, these are all commuters. An extension of Expo Line services to Production Way ultimately reduces the amount of people transferring at Lougheed Town Centre, which increases the capacity at that station.

It will not be easier to change the bus I don't think. The cost of operating a SkyTrain would be significantly less than the costs incurred of operating the actual bus network.

Ultimately I don't see in any way operations will be significantly affected with turning the train around. The Millennium Line will not be running at frequencies where this is a problem (yet). Nor is this operated on a restricted schedule agreement like the Canada Line.

[SOSS]

Have I missed something with the naming of the lines? Expo line is continually mentioned but I thought Expo was the Waterfront-King George Line and Millennium Line was the Waterfront-Production Way Line and Evergreen being the VCC-Clark to Lafarge Lake-Douglas Line.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by deasine

I don't agree with the language used here, it's no different than some forumers saying UBC is not deservant of rapid transit because they are students.

At the end of the day, these are all commuters. An extension of Expo Line services to Production Way ultimately reduces the amount of people transferring at Lougheed Town Centre, which increases the capacity at that station.

It will not be easier to change the bus I don't think. The cost of operating a SkyTrain would be significantly less than the costs incurred of operating the actual bus network.

Ultimately I don't see in any way operations will be significantly affected with turning the train around. The Millennium Line will not be running at frequencies where this is a problem (yet). Nor is this operated on a restricted schedule agreement like the Canada Line.

Also consider that at some point in the future, they may construct a gondola or funicular or something else that doesn't terminate at production way (because of Burnaby's Mayor being short-sighted) and instead maybe have whatever goes to SFU terminate at Burquitlam station. The Mayor being cheap already cost Burnaby Cameron station.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Have I missed something with the naming of the lines? Expo line is continually mentioned but I thought Expo was the Waterfront-King George Line and Millennium Line was the Waterfront-Production Way Line and Evergreen being the VCC-Clark to Lafarge Lake-Douglas Line.

Yup. This is the assumed routing from a photo in the 2103 Annual Report - from May 2014.
Blue = Expo Line, Yellow = Millennium Line.
The RFEOI for new station signage supports this implementation.

Originally Posted by officedweller

BTW, here's the pic from the Annual Report.


http://www.translink.ca/~/media/Document...w/annual_reports/annual_report_2013.ashx

[SpongeG]

if yellow is the milennium line why bother having the evergreen line?

[officedweller]

That's the point - It seems that there will be no line named the "Evergreen Line".
Remember the Evergreen Line is really a holdover from when the line was to a wholly separate line using LRT technology.
It's really reverting back to being the phase 2 PMC extension of the Millennium Line.
This was discussed at length in this thread in about May 2014.

[Kwik-E-Mart]

Originally Posted by officedweller

That's the point - It seems that there will be no line named the "Evergreen Line".
Remember the Evergreen Line is really a holdover from when the line was to a wholly separate line using LRT technology.
It's really reverting back to being the phase 2 PMC extension of the Millennium Line.
This was discussed at length in this thread in about May 2014.

- or the Evergreen Extension of the Millennium Line, as quoted from the REFOI in previous posts.

[SpongeG]

lol what a mess

[scryer]

Why don't they just make the Millennium line and the Evergreen line a shared line, with the Evergreen line splitting off from Lougheed? To me, that would keep all the names the same and eliminate the confusion about the name thang....

Just food for thought.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by scryer

Why don't they just make the Millennium line and the Evergreen line a shared line, with the Evergreen line splitting off from Lougheed? To me, that would keep all the names the same and eliminate the confusion about the name thang....

Just food for thought.

You mean double interlining the M-Line to retain the existing route (called the "Double Coordinated" option)?
The timing is too complex and a delay on one line will screw up all 3 routes (although Expo Line trains going to Production Way also requires some double interlining too).
It may also have to do with the ridership on each line and getting Expo Line trains back to the Expo Line faster (instead of going all the way to VCC Clark since Millennium Line ridership is lower than Expo Line).

See discussion here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=6707940&postcount=5909