PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Private Dick]

Target... downtown or otherwise

[daviderik]

SouthSide Works’ third new residential building breaks ground Friday

Southside Works city Apartments, a six-story, 264-unit building—is located on a 2.45 acre parcel at the corners of Sidney and 26th streets, adjacent to REI.

Features include 12,000 square feet of retail space on the ground floor, a Zen garden and courtyard, 12 different layout designs with hardwood floors, indoor/outdoor pool, a fitness center and an attached 563-space parking garage.

Set to open Feb of 16' plus two other residential complexes already being constructed on the south side brings the number of units to almost 500.
http://www.nextpittsburgh.com/city-desig...developments-third-breaks-ground-friday/

[Evergrey]

a Zen garden... I'm intrigued...

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

So Target just announced it is closing down ALL of its stores in Canada, 133 of them to focus expanding their urban US store expansion which they said is "capital intensive". This got me to thinking even if it were a bit smaller, a location somewhere in downtown Pittsburgh would be awesome. It would have basics, household items AND groceries and we already know they killed it with their urban store in East Liberty.

I personally think somewhere on Smithfield within a block or two of the Macy's would be perfect. Smithfield is centrally located for downtown's growing residential population and is becoming more of a pedestrian & cycling friendly zone and being near Macy's might be complimentary for downtown residents.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing a Target or a Giant Eagle in Downtown. A two-story configuration would be a must, and I'd like to see several floors of apartments built on top as well.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

So BNY-Mellon is selling 525 William Penn, and planning to gradually move out of the 650,000 sqft it is occupying there:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...ling-pittsburghs-4th-largest-office.html
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...vacate-650-000-square-feet.html?page=all

I'm not sure exactly what that means for Downtown's office market, since it sounds like they are also planning to consolidate into their other Downtown buildings--if they go into 500 Grant Street in particular, presumably that would be netting back out some otherwise marketable space.

Anyway, I've always liked the look of that building--I think of it as "the Mad Men building" because to me it really has that 1950s/60s NYC vibe. On the other hand, I've heard it is not all the pleasant to work in. So I even wonder if this is another candidate for a partial residential conversion, like PMC is doing with the former ALCOA HQ (a building of similar scale and vintage).

I also like that building. It has a Rockefeller Center look about it. Should be interesting to see what becomes of it...

Originally Posted by daviderik

SouthSide Works’ third new residential building breaks ground Friday


Set to open Feb of 16' plus two other residential complexes already being constructed on the south side brings the number of units to almost 500.
http://www.nextpittsburgh.com/city-desig...developments-third-breaks-ground-friday/

That will be great for the Southside.

Also, Austinlee, nice read on that rather dated article discussing Pittsburgh's history of urban renewal.

All of that talk made me think of the proposed heavy-rail subway system back in the 1920s and 1930s that was abandoned even with some funds in place for the initial stages of development. Why was it abandoned (ran out of money, Great Depression)? How would such a network have impacted the urban renewal efforts at the time? Could Pittsburgh have retained more of its city-proper population?

[ShooFlyPie]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I believe it is actually going on the river (north) side of Carson, in the spot just up river (east) of the Incline parking lot.

And I agree, that is a nice project for that location. Along with the first phase of Forest City's Station Square expansion, that is going to be a lot of activity starting over there this summer.

Speaking of which:



That is all good news. More urban sounds good (although that is kinda subjective), and I think that connection to McKean is really crucial to tying this development into the area around the bridges and ultimately on to the South Side. I actually like walking McKean around there because it is more pleasant than Carson, and there are also a lot of cool old industrial buildings.

I see where you are saying after looking at Google Maps. When reading that article in the PG I thought it would of been in the place of this old beauty;



http://www.glasssteelandstone.com/BuildingDetail/3349.php

Now this should have got the die hard preservationist really angry when they tore this one down.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by ShooFlyPie

I see where you are saying after looking at Google Maps. When reading that article in the PG I thought it would of been in the place of this old beauty;


Now this should have got the die hard preservationist really angry when they tore this one down.

No but I was sad when the old paint factory was torn down. That would have made amazing apartments.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by GeneW

No but I was sad when the old paint factory was torn down. That would have made amazing apartments.

Yep. I didn't remember it but was bummed when I saw a picture:





On the plus side, I guess that is a 6-story building or so (not including the central tower). So 15 is going to look pretty impressive. And it would be great if that was just the beginning of a whole cluster of such buildings.

[photoLith]

Wow I had no idea that was ever there. They sure were dumb as hell back then for tearing that down. Would have made awesome lofts. Idiots.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

So BNY-Mellon is selling 525 William Penn, and planning to gradually move out of the 650,000 sqft it is occupying there:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...ling-pittsburghs-4th-largest-office.html
http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...vacate-650-000-square-feet.html?page=all

I'm not sure exactly what that means for Downtown's office market, since it sounds like they are also planning to consolidate into their other Downtown buildings--if they go into 500 Grant Street in particular, presumably that would be netting back out some otherwise marketable space.

Anyway, I've always liked the look of that building--I think of it as "the Mad Men building" because to me it really has that 1950s/60s NYC vibe. On the other hand, I've heard it is not all the pleasant to work in. So I even wonder if this is another candidate for a partial residential conversion, like PMC is doing with the former ALCOA HQ (a building of similar scale and vintage).

That building doesn't seem fit for residential at all to me; But who knows.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

That building doesn't seem fit for residential at all to me; But who knows.

I thought the same thing about the apartment conversion. On the other hand, the former Alcoa headquarters is the process of being converted to apartments. Both buildings (Alcoa / US Steel) were built at the same time in the 1950's and have the same slim footprint. I worked in Three Mellon Bank Center early on in my career. The views are amazing from the upper floors. I never noticed the building on the skyline or the height until I started working the in the late 1990s.

When completed in the 1950s both buildings along with the Mellon Square park were award winning designs.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by photoLith

Wow I had no idea that was ever there. They sure were dumb as hell back then for tearing that down. Would have made awesome lofts. Idiots.

I seem to remember some statements to the effect that there was no way to mitigate the lead contamination issues but seeing as how many buildings have been rehabbed with lead or asbestos or mercury or even radium issues, I find that hard to believe.

[BrianTH]

It wasn't even that long ago (2001):

http://old.post-gazette.com/neigh_city/20010612demolition0612p4.asp

Th[e] industrial structure was built in 1902 and has been closed for more than 30 years. Much of the roof has withered away over the years, allowing rain and bird droppings to get inside and damage the interior. Demolition is expected to take 60 to 90 days. Some historic preservationists had looked at the building in recent years as a possible site for high-end apartments or condominiums, but the extensive interior damage and the narrow site -- squeezed in between railroad tracks and Carson Street, a state road -- made reuse of the structure prohibitively expensive.

A master plan for the entire 50-acre Station Square site, which had been done in 1992 by Pittsburgh History & Landmarks Foundation when it owned the property, called for the preservation and renovation of Lawrence Paint. But after the prime riverfront property was sold in 1994 to Forest City Enterprises of Cleveland and Tennessee-based Promus hotels and casinos, approval was obtained from the city to demolish the old paint building. Forest City later bought out Promus, but Promus still holds an option on the land until 2007 in case Pennsylvania should legalize floating or land-based casinos. At least until the option held by Promus expires, the Lawrence Paint building will be replaced by a small park with industrial artifacts.

"We regret that the master plan, which PHLF submitted to the city in 1992 and which required preservation of Lawrence Paint, is not being followed," said History & Landmarks spokeswoman Cathy McCollom. Even after the property was sold by Landmarks in 1994, "we assumed the approved master plan would be followed," she said. She acknowledged that Forest City, in the late 1990s, went to the city planning commission to obtain approval to demolish the building, saying it had become too damaged to be renovated.

Long story short, it was part of all that Forest City casino nonsense, and was torn down in that short-sighted period a few years before Downtown started really taking off as a residential area. I suspect now, interior damage or not, at least the shell would have been reusable.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

I thought the same thing about the apartment conversion. On the other hand, the former Alcoa headquarters is the process of being converted to apartments. Both buildings (Alcoa / US Steel) were built at the same time in the 1950's and have the same slim footprint.

It is also pretty similar to the same-era former-Verizon Building down on Stanwix, which PMC already successfully converted to apartments.

I have no idea if anyone is actually going to be interested in doing that, of course. But given those other projects, the very good location, and what I have heard about the somewhat below-standard quality of the offices, it would seem like a possibility to me.

Edit: So as you might guess, the way that works is they do a lot of long skinny apartments with windows in only one side of one room:



Same deal in yet another PMC conversion in Pittsburgh, 526 Penn:



I gather they are not having a big problem marketing these, which kinda makes sense to me. Although more windows might be better, a renter may only really need one room with the great view. And to the extent you may not be able to charge top-of-the-line rent, presumably doing it as a conversion means you are able to deliver pretty generous square-footage at a pretty low cost.

[designer3d712]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Same deal in yet another PMC conversion in Pittsburgh, 526 Penn:



I gather they are not having a big problem marketing these, which kinda makes sense to me. Although more windows might be better, a renter may only really need one room with the great view. And to the extent you may not be able to charge top-of-the-line rent, presumably doing it as a conversion means you are able to deliver pretty generous square-footage at a pretty low cost.

I went there when it was the Art Institute of Pittsburgh, and It's kind of weird seeing it as apartments. It probably still has the manual elevators.

[Private Dick]

Showing my age... I used to play Lazer Tag in the Lawrence Paint Bldg. with my cousin and his friends. It was awesome... and probably terribly dangerous.

[Wiz Khalifa]

Originally Posted by GeneW

I seem to remember some statements to the effect that there was no way to mitigate the lead contamination issues but seeing as how many buildings have been rehabbed with lead or asbestos or mercury or even radium issues, I find that hard to believe.

You can see from the picture that the building was jammed in between the train tracks and Carson Street. If it was still standing then there would be no room for Station Square drive to squeeze by. The building had too large of a footprint for that spot, and the location just seems like it would be unsuitable for a high end condo conversion.

Either way, this looks like it will end up being one of the few times in recent history that tearing down a historic building resulted in a net positive for land use intensity of the site.

[Wiz Khalifa]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

That is all good news. More urban sounds good (although that is kinda subjective), and I think that connection to McKean is really crucial to tying this development into the area around the bridges and ultimately on to the South Side. I actually like walking McKean around there because it is more pleasant than Carson, and there are also a lot of cool old industrial buildings.

This simple overlooked connection is actually huge for east/west connectivity in the Southside through Station Square. As it exists now, there is no reasonable alternative route around the block of Carson St. adjacent to the T station, that doesn't involve backtracking and going miles out of your way.

Last year a runaway truck took out a pedestrian next to the T Station during the morning rush, and the resulting gridlock cascaded outwards for miles in every direction south of the Mon. In hindsight, a simple connection from Mckean through the parking lot to Station Square Drive would have been all that was needed to avoid having thousands of cars gridlocked for hours during the morning rush.

[AFW523]

http://iqc.ou.edu/2015/01/21/60yrsnortheast

Scroll down for Pittsburgh. Really highlights the vast wipe out of neighborhoods east. As much as the Civic Arena is cited for disconnecting the hill from town, crosstown boulevard was a far greater impediment to connectivity.

Albany and Providence? Good night...

[mikebarbaro]

Are there any renderings of the new hotel by the incline?

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by designer3d712

I went there when it was the Art Institute of Pittsburgh, and It's kind of weird seeing it as apartments. It probably still has the manual elevators.

Hey, if they can turn Club Laga into apartments they can do it anywhere i guess. I miss Laga...