The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I think it would be great if London got LRT, but in the interim, from what you've said, it sounds like some sort of express bus system might be worth looking into. It requires minimal expenditures but greatly improves service quality (imo anyway) and can help transition the transit system into one that is centred on an LRT corridor before the corridor is ever in place. I know that here in KW a lot of intensification had already occurred along the LRT corridor before construction even started on it and I think it's in part due to things like the iXpress and planning changes were set in place ages ago already.

The biggest barrier to efficient public transit in London is the level rail crossings, particularly on Richmond and Adelaide Streets.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I think it would be great if London got LRT, but in the interim, from what you've said, it sounds like some sort of express bus system might be worth looking into. It requires minimal expenditures but greatly improves service quality (imo anyway) and can help transition the transit system into one that is centred on an LRT corridor before the corridor is ever in place. I know that here in KW a lot of intensification had already occurred along the LRT corridor before construction even started on it and I think it's in part due to things like the iXpress and planning changes were set in place ages ago already.

Does London not already have iXpress-style express buses (or 'BRT-lite' as I like to call it)? I thought they did. Many other cities in Ontario have followed Waterloo Region and adopted BRT-lite in the past few years, like Brampton, Kingston, Oshawa, etc.

[eemy]

I knew about Brampton and Kingston, but I honestly don't know about London.

Edit: It appears they have two express routes, one north-south and another east-west. I'm curious to know how well they are being received.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I knew about Brampton and Kingston, but I honestly don't know about London.

Edit: It appears they have two express routes, one north-south and another east-west. I'm curious to know how well they are being received.

London is always late to the game, but London does have 2 express routes - the 90 Express and 91 Express. The 90 has been running for a while. The 90 services Masonville to White Oaks and the 91 services Oxford Street. Both have been received well. The mayor today said that they will shortly introduce RT Lite which will help until a better for of rapid transit is introduced.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I knew about Brampton and Kingston, but I honestly don't know about London.

Edit: It appears they have two express routes, one north-south and another east-west. I'm curious to know how well they are being received.

London's express buses are not specially branded. They are just your typical limited stop bus route like the TTC operates.

So far, the routes have been extremely well received, and service has had to be increased to handle passenger loads. Riders have been asking for more service, as it is only a weekday rush hour(I believe) service.

[ssiguy]

London has the ability to become a very good transit city.

London already has a high ridership rate and due to having no freeways, frightfully inadequate roads, and heavy traffic leading to all day traffic backups, an RT in London really could be time competitive with driving.

London is a city of 400,000 and with a 40km radius live another 200,000 and due to being a major education, healthcare, government, and entertainment centre, it really is a major regional hub. London is arguably Ontario's 3rd most important city and is growing one as well at around 1%/year.

All of the above has created a city that is quite busy but with a hopelessly inadequate road system. This is made worse by always having to cross a bridge over the Thames or a railway track.

Due to London's lack of roads and heavy traffic it is one of the few cities in the country where an RT system could be competitive with a car.

[miketoronto]

Lets not cheap out then. If this was the 70's, London would be planning a fully grade separated transit line like Skytrain.
Do it right .

[north 42]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

London has the ability to become a very good transit city.

London already has a high ridership rate and due to having no freeways, frightfully inadequate roads, and heavy traffic leading to all day traffic backups, an RT in London really could be time competitive with driving.

London is a city of 400,000 and with a 40km radius live another 200,000 and due to being a major education, healthcare, government, and entertainment centre, it really is a major regional hub. London is arguably Ontario's 3rd most important city and is growing one as well at around 1%/year.

All of the above has created a city that is quite busy but with a hopelessly inadequate road system. This is made worse by always having to cross a bridge over the Thames or a railway track.

Due to London's lack of roads and heavy traffic it is one of the few cities in the country where an RT system could be competitive with a car.

I would put London down as the 5th most important city in Ontario, after Hamilton and KW, much more investment and growth in these two cities.

[1overcosc]

London's growth is slow and steady but consistently positive. Like Manitoba

[1overcosc]

VIA Rail has finally installed digital arrival & departure boards at the stations. They're nice and snazzy

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

London's growth is slow and steady but consistently positive. Like Manitoba

Ummmm...

Source: "The Future Of Southwestern Ontario" Mike Moffatt, Ivey Business School at the University of Western Ontario

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Ummmm...

Source: "The Future Of Southwestern Ontario" Mike Moffatt, Ivey Business School at the University of Western Ontario

I meant population growth.

[ssiguy]

Hamilton is the questionable one but I think Hamilton's stature will decline. The city is growing but it's becoming more of a outer suburb of Toronto and the more it falls within that sphere the less regional importance it has.

KWC isn't even close to London's stature. London is the undisputed capitol of SW Ontario and KWC is just a bunch of small cities that grew together into an urban blob. It's stature will continue to diminish {not that it has a big one to begin with} due to, like Hamilton, becoming more of just a Toronto suburb.

[Elmira Guy]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Hamilton is the questionable one but I think Hamilton's stature will decline. The city is growing but it's becoming more of a outer suburb of Toronto and the more it falls within that sphere the less regional importance it has.

KWC isn't even close to London's stature. London is the undisputed capitol of SW Ontario and KWC is just a bunch of small cities that grew together into an urban blob. It's stature will continue to diminish {not that it has a big one to begin with} due to, like Hamilton, becoming more of just a Toronto suburb.

I don't mean to sound all Chadish, because with no insult intended, I don't give a shit what anyone on this board thinks about the city I live in. But I'm curious to hear what factual evidence or gifted insights lead you to make these conclusions with such absolute certainty.

Out of sincere curiousity, how much time have you spent/lived in either city?

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Hamilton is the questionable one but I think Hamilton's stature will decline. The city is growing but it's becoming more of a outer suburb of Toronto and the more it falls within that sphere the less regional importance it has.

KWC isn't even close to London's stature. London is the undisputed capitol of SW Ontario and KWC is just a bunch of small cities that grew together into an urban blob. It's stature will continue to diminish {not that it has a big one to begin with} due to, like Hamilton, becoming more of just a Toronto suburb.

I would tend to agree with this statement. London is more isolated from the GTA and therefore it's own city, with one central core, not 3. KW is important but not really a regional centre the way London is. Having said that, this isn't overly relevant to transit - KW already has shovels in the ground for LRT and London is just starting to talk about it. Hopefully with the most progressive council London has ever had, we can get some form of rapid transit too.

[caltrane74]

ssiguy, has been making more sense the past couple of weeks, but today he just lost his marbles. KW is the tech capital of Ontario, that is the city that will provide the oil for the Entire Ontario Economy of the future. The new rail links (via Go Transit/High Speed Rail) will only increase it's importance. And its still a good distance away, not to be considered a part of Toronto.

[Elmira Guy]

I've got no beef with ssiguy, and generally agree with him, as of late in particular.

But I do want to know what the basis is for his statement "It's stature will continue to diminish" with regards to Waterloo Region, which he states with absolute certainty.

And has Waterloo Region been diminishing over the past number of years as he states? I don't see it.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Hamilton is the questionable one but I think Hamilton's stature will decline. The city is growing but it's becoming more of a outer suburb of Toronto and the more it falls within that sphere the less regional importance it has.

KWC isn't even close to London's stature. London is the undisputed capitol of SW Ontario and KWC is just a bunch of small cities that grew together into an urban blob. It's stature will continue to diminish {not that it has a big one to begin with} due to, like Hamilton, becoming more of just a Toronto suburb.

Hamilton has been having fewer people commute to Toronto in recent years and has a strong level of employment growth. The different urban areas might grow more connected, but Hamilton seems to be strengthening its position if anything.

[eemy]

I think ssiguy's assertion about Hamilton and KW diminishing in importance makes sense conceptually, but there's very little evidence to indicate that it is actually happening and a fair bit to indicate that the inverse is actually true.

London is definitely the capital of SW Ontario in the sense that almost all government services are centred there for the region. Having lived in the northern stretches of SW Ontario, though, KW is definitely the stronger regional centre in other aspects (business and family links, for example) simply due to the better transportation links from KW to that part of Ontario.

[Mrs Sauga]

Originally Posted by Elmira Guy

I've got no beef with ssiguy, and generally agree with him, as of late in particular.

But I do want to know what the basis is for his statement "It's stature will continue to diminish" with regards to Waterloo Region, which he states with absolute certainty.

And has Waterloo Region been diminishing over the past number of years as he states? I don't see it.

I think his point is that KW will continue to grow into the GTA and become less of an independent city.