Winnipeg Construction VIII

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

You're missing the point. These concepts are nearly always sold as being huge economic boons to the community and thus worthy of huge amounts of subsidy. Given one can count on one hand where they've amounted to successful (and all of them in warm climates that attract a lot of tourists) it's a bad idea.

Is that really how this project is being sold? isn't it just an office/parkade complex that happens to have a small plaza in the middle? now whether we need an office/parkade complex there is of course.debatable

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I was talking to one of the rink maintenance guys for the city the other day who's been doing this for years and he was telling me that he dutifully scrapes and floods the rinks in some of the more urban areas and tells me that he'll go nights without seeing anybody use them. His take is that they're largely immigrant populations in the areas now amongst the still remaining elderly. Given hockey is becoming a luxury sport, I'm not really that surprised.

I should move my outdoor skates to the downtown area. I attend most of the rinks in the northeast and a lot of days it impossible to have a meaningful skate. Between kids practising and the rest of the kids jamming up the only available rink, not much left for any pick up games or the like.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by windypeg

Is that really how this project is being sold? isn't it just an office/parkade complex that happens to have a small plaza in the middle? now whether we need an office/parkade complex there is of course.debatable

The entire legal makeup of the area is bound by a TIF. So, yes, unfortunately, that's how it's being sold even if that's not how most people understand it.

Whether there's enough market demand or not from whatever sort of development will go there, the taxpayer is going to underwrite the downside risk by virtue of abating all future taxation over the next twenty years and continuing to subsidize the outfit that ostensibly draws people - The Jets. They're also going to pay for MLCC to fit out their new 80 - 100,000K sq ft of new office space that's mostly just redundant.

And this wouldn't be so much of an issue if the MLCC and other tenants into CentrePoint were actually new-to-market tenants. But they're not. They just create vacancies elsewhere. So while we might see a slight marginal uptick in the Business Taxes they pay due to the increased 'value' of the new space, we see a net decrease to the property tax rolls because what was once productive space is now vacant. As taxpayers, we also see increased rents being paid by a bunch of administrative offices that don't require brand new space with which to carry out their mandate.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I should move my outdoor skates to the downtown area. I attend most of the rinks in the northeast and a lot of days it impossible to have a meaningful skate. Between kids practising and the rest of the kids jamming up the only available rink, not much left for any pick up games or the like.

Yeah, my comment to him was that I could only imagine how packed the more suburban rinks were. Sounds like they're quite.

[Riverman]

Didn't there used to be a rink behind the library?

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Didn't there used to be a rink behind the library?

Was that permanent, or just for the filming of "The Lookout" (2007)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427470/

[cllew]

Library had a skating pad. When I think rink I think hockey boards.

[rkspec]

http://winnipegdowntownplaces.blogspot.ca/2010/07/251-donald-street-millennium-library.html

The success of the park was limited.

The skating rink, which cost nearly $10,000 to operate in the first winter, was poorly attended and soon discontinued. Finishing touches on the rink, such as the clock tower were never completed.

The skating rink comes complete with a warm-up shack for downtown workers who want some fresh air and exercise during their lunch breaks.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

And this wouldn't be so much of an issue if the MLCC and other tenants into CentrePoint were actually new-to-market tenants. But they're not. They just create vacancies elsewhere.

The vacancies left elsewhere is definitely an issue. MLLC leaving their Polo Park offices is likely going to leave a difficult to fill vacancy as it is both large and going to be competing with the development at the former stadium site.

The issue is more complex though. MLCC had offices at Polo Park and off McGillivray. My understanding is neither site had space to accommodate the staff from the other site. This made moving to a third location a necessity. There could be similar issues for the offices moving into CentrePoint. The overall problem still remains that new office space is being built far faster than the demand for that type of space in Winnipeg.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The vacancies left elsewhere is definitely an issue. MLLC leaving their Polo Park offices is likely going to leave a difficult to fill vacancy as it is both large and going to be competing with the development at the former stadium site.

The issue is more complex though. MLCC had offices at Polo Park and off McGillivray. My understanding is neither site had space to accommodate the staff from the other site. This made moving to a third location a necessity. There could be similar issues for the offices moving into CentrePoint. The overall problem still remains that new office space is being built far faster than the demand for that type of space in Winnipeg.

That's an interesting nuance with MLCC. Given they just finished renovating their space on McGillivray, are they planning to continue using it, or are they aggregating everybody downtown?

[bomberjet]

As far as Centrepoint and the vacancies left elsewhere. I have no problem with Stantec relocating their offices from Waverley and elsewhere to downtown. Those other offices can be torn down or redeveloped for all I care.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

As far as Centrepoint and the vacancies left elsewhere. I have no problem with Stantec relocating their offices from Waverley and elsewhere to downtown. Those other offices can be torn down or redeveloped for all I care.

What matters is that the building went from producing north of $100K in annual property tax revenue to probably less than 10% of that. And since the new Stantec office sits in the SHED, its property taxes generated are now net zero. Or very close. We'd have to see the development agreement to be precise about the terms, but that's the general objective.

[Labroco]

Am I to understand from the FP story today that Centre Venture's attempt to secure the Carlton hotel site for True North without a RFP has just cost the city $12,500,000!!

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Labroco

Am I to understand from the FP story today that Centre Venture's attempt to secure the Carlton hotel site for True North without a RFP has just cost the city $12,500,000!!

Only hypothetically speaking. Since nobody ever decided to sign the contract between Stuart Olson, the City, and the Convention Centre, it was dubious whether anybody could have ever collected that $16MM. In other words, there's $180MM project happening right now where literally nobody can be held to account for anything. Don't be surprised if we see a few change orders show up to make Stuart Olson whole.

This is your public service hard at work.

[bomberjet]

So what's the explanation for not having a contract signed? Who exactly is responsible for that? Katz, Joshi, Sheegl, or some lower staffer. It's a never ending story of incompetence.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

So what's the explanation for not having a contract signed? Who exactly is responsible for that? Katz, Joshi, Sheegl, or some lower staffer. It's a never ending story of incompetence.

Beyond the omnipresent incompetence of government, how derelict is the board of the Winnipeg Convention Center? The case was made by the organization that it was imperative an expansion was necessary and the absolute only way in which to guarantee that expansion's success was to supplement it with a hotel.

Then you set to initiating $180MM worth of work by hanging your entire future on the goodwill of the contractor? And this idea that the Convention Center would be completely over a barrel in the event of a fallout between them and the contractor tells you they knew they needed to mitigate their risk. Did they? Nope.

There's no contract. I just want everybody to let that soak in for a moment.

That's going to be $15MM dollar Carlton Inn land before it's all over.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

That's an interesting nuance with MLCC. Given they just finished renovating their space on McGillivray, are they planning to continue using it, or are they aggregating everybody downtown?

They will continue to use the facility off McGillivray as it acts as thie distribution centre.

[headhorse]

APTN on Portage:


from prairiearchitects.ca

it says to be completed in 2015.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by headhorse

APTN on Portage:


from prairiearchitects.ca

it says to be completed in 2015.

better than original proposal

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by Winnipeg Free Press

New infill condos going up
Group of developers building in Wolseley and the Maples

A group of local developers is about to launch two new infill condominium projects in the city, one in the Wolseley area and the other in the Maples.

One of their projects is a three-storey, nine-unit condo complex, called Urban Glo, which will be built on two infill lots on Picardy Place, just south of the intersection of Portage Avenue and Broadway.

The other, called Pointe North Station, is a four-storey, mixed-use complex that will be built on the corner of Leila Avenue and Mandalay Drive

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/columnists/new-infill-condos-going-up-289752621.html