Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4

[delts145]

Another thought. I can't remember exactly, but didn't that bistro use to have the gaud awful 50's plastic faux front at the top, or maybe it was that out of place stone from top to bottom. I remember it being something really nasty looking. The brick and hip signage is definitely a big improvement.

[UTPlanner]

Another interesting fact from those growth projections is that St. George will be the state's largest city.

[linguisize]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

Another interesting fact from those growth projections is that St. George will be the state's largest city.

I'd really like for that to not be the case... However; I'm pretty optimistic that a lot of the growth they get there will want to move out to the "Big city" like Salt Lake. At least the next generation or two.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by delts145

I actually really like the look of the original buildings, or using the majority of the original exterior, being exposed. Obviously there were some repairs that needed to be made, thanks to the 60's trend of horrible aluminum fronts. I lthink it give SLC more character than if everything was updated to be spiffy, clean and brand new. I think the contrast of eras and quality gives Main street it's unique quality. I like bakery, Yellowtail, and Whiskey Street. I think the bakery's exterior fits exactly what concept they were going for. There are places that customize the exterior to match the retail concept every time a store changes, they're called malls, to me, while Main street is truly becoming a retail/restaurant destination, I would rather see the buildings than the concepts.


I also have to thank you Makid for coming on and giving us some reason to calm down all the ranting. You beat me to it but I'll restate it anyway. With the amount of infill that is happening, and even with smaller towers like 222, 111 and 151 being built, that will lead to a premium and developable property which will ultimately lead to taller buildings.

[Future Mayor]

"Signature Tower" is totally subjective. There is people that live and visit many other cities that consider those cities to have a signature tower for that city.

For instance many Clevelanders consider one of two towers it's "Signature Tower" For some it's Terminal Tower because it's tall and historic, for others it's Key Tower, because it is a nice design and it is the tallest in the city, and guess what, it has a giant key on the top. Another city with their "signature tower" is Little Rock with the former TCBY tower, now the Simmons Tower, which also had/has it's name on it.

I'm trying to make two points here. Many times cities have a signature tower that is signature to them and to people that visit there, but most others don't easily remember them. So I don't think hoping that SLC gets a signature tower is demanding that we get a Chrysler Building, Empire State, Freedom Tower, Willis Tower, or TransAmerica Tower, that is recognizable around the world, but that is unique to Salt Lake City.

The second point I am trying to make is that it's not just Salt Lake City and LA that have names on towers. Many towers in many cities have that, and they do so because they are paying good money to be the main tenant and they want that money to be a marketing tool, thus having their name on the building.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by linguisize

I'd really like for that to not be the case... However; I'm pretty optimistic that a lot of the growth they get there will want to move out to the "Big city" like Salt Lake. At least the next generation or two.

Hopefully SLC can incorporate part of the county. I went over my old idea and I think now that SLC should only incorporate east side cities because they are becoming increasingly liberal and more representative of the city. Sandy, CH, Murray (though Murray is becoming increasingly independent), Millcreek, Midvale, etc. Would also allow for the creation of my proposed I-215 light rail (Olympics!)

[jubguy3]

If SLC incorporated SSLC, Millcreek, Cottonwood heights, Murray, Midvale, Holladay, and Sandy, the population could increase to almost 700,000 by 2060 and continue with responsible planning policies that the city is becoming known for. Most companies and entities want to exist in the east bench so SLC could regulate this much better.
EDIT: with WVC and tailorsville the population could reach 900,000 by 2060. I'll calculate with current population.

With current population and WVC/Taylorsville the population of New SLC is ~660000 without millcreek and probably closer to 700,000 with millcreek.

[Future Mayor]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't ever see that happening. The only areas I could possibly see SLC annexing is Millcreek and Magna, because they are unincorporated.

The only reason already incorporated cities get annexed by other cities is if they are having financial troubles and can't afford to pay their bills as a city based on their current tax revenues, and see no hope of that changing in the future, and then it is usually mandated by the state that the more solvent city take control of that area. Considering a couple of these cities, Cottonwood Heights and Holladay are recently incorporated they obviously have the tax base to support all city expenses, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to incorporate in the first place.

Millcreek has managed to stay pretty independent thus far, so unless the County really starts to raise their taxes, much more than the surrounding residents in SSL, SLC and Holladay are paying, I don't anticipate that they will be coming into SLC anytime soon.

Another thing to note, as an example, if Holladay were struggling and needed to be made part of another city, SLC wouldn't be able to do so. Annexation has to be to areas contiguous to the existing city boundaries. In order to get Holladay SLC would have to find enough property owners in the unincorporated Millcreek area to annex into the city to be able to connect SLC's boundary to Holladay.

So while increasing the population of SLC through annexation would be nice, until Millcreek decides, not SLC, that they want to be part of the city. SLC is going to have to grow through density and actual population growth

[SLC Projects]

Will any of us still be around by 2060? I will be 80.

[Comrade]

It seems every few months we get into the debate of annexing and it has to be brought up how unlikely that is to happen for a few reasons - 1) the city isn't actively looking at it and 2) many of the residents in the areas that could be annexed aren't interested in joining SLC.

As for St. George growing into the largest city - it's impossible to know. Projections that far out are meaningless. A couple decades ago, WVC was projected to surpass SLC as the state's largest city due to its current and projected growth. In the 1980s, the city ballooned by 20% and 25% in the 1990s. In the 00s, though, the growth slowed considerably to 18.9% and then 2.3% in 2012. It's unlikely, with those current projections - a long with SLC's - that WVC will come close to passing Salt Lake any time soon.

Likewise, St. George's growth has slowed - albeit it's still impressive. In the 1990s, it grew at an unbelievable rate of 151%. Just last decade, though, it was down to 46.6% and 3.7% in 2012 - which is roughly a percentage higher than SLC's growth in 2012.

Not at the level it'll need to be to pass Salt Lake.

St. George will continue to grow but another city will become the next hot spot and they'll float the idea about that being the one to pass SLC - and its growth will slow at a point, too, and we'll start the cycle over again.

The only way I'd be concerned about SLC losing top billing would be if they continued the trend of losing population out of the 1980s. But that hasn't been the case - though, growth slowed a bit in the 00s.

As for 2060, I'll be 70 or something. So, I expect to be alive.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Will any of us still be around by 2060? I will be 80.

I'm not going anywhere.

[Old&New]

Updated:



I think there is enough of a change in grade that parking could be at-grade (this would dramatically decrease the cost of this expansion) while the indoor exhibit space would be above that, and then above that could be a green roof for additional outdoor retailers convention exhibit space

[Stenar]

I completely agree. Street level engagement is all that matters.

Originally Posted by LumberJack

I'm not sure why a lot of you think that SLC needs a "signature tower". I already expressed that I think that signature towers and skylines are not as important compared to the importance of the street feel and density feel at the street level of a city. The only "signature towers(s)" in the US that I can think of are...

Seattle - Columbia Center
Los Angeles - US Bank Tower
Chicago - Willis Tower, Trump International Hotel & Tower
New York - Empire State Building, One World Trade Center, Chrysler Building
Oklahoma City - Devon Energy Tower
Philadelphia - Comcast Center
Austin - The Austonian
San Francisco - Transamerica Pyramid

With the exception of Austin's and OKC's tower (which sticks out like a sore thumb), all these other signature towers are located in very large cities. I hope SLC never gets a "signature tower", because I think it would stick out terribly in the skyline like the Devon Energy Tower in OKC does. Hopefully SLC can develope more of an urban feel and density feel on the streets throughout all downtown SLC.

[Hatman]

Old & New, I think that's your best plan yet. I would only add a pedestrian connection of some kind (a bridge, maybe?) from the south end of the expansion to the south end of the existing section, so that conventioneers can circulate in, well, a circle.

I really hope the right decision makers get a chance to see your work.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

Hopefully SLC can incorporate part of the county. I went over my old idea and I think now that SLC should only incorporate east side cities because they are becoming increasingly liberal and more representative of the city. Sandy, CH, Murray (though Murray is becoming increasingly independent), Millcreek, Midvale, etc. Would also allow for the creation of my proposed I-215 light rail (Olympics!)

Magna is actually fairly liberal. A lot of union members and they usually have a Democrat in the state legislature representing them.

UPDATE: I just checked. Magna currently has a Democrat as representative. Their state senator is a Republican, but the senate district covers an area larger than just Magna, of course.

[Stenar]

Millcreek is more Republican.

[jedikermit]

^^^^

Kearns/Taylorsville has had a democrat state senator for a long time now...there's more liberality on the west side than people give us credit/condemnation for.

[asies1981]

Post on a new petition calling for refineries to be moved.

As someone who has dedicated the past 7 months to covering development in the Salt Lake, I feel that city is indeed booming. I have traveled a lot and lived for 7 years in one of the densest cities in the US. I've said this before but the heart of a city is at the street level. Salt Lake's downtown is seeing new life and new spaces that engage the street level and are bringing people downtown. There is a huge influx of mid-rise residential (and more on the way) in the periphery of downtown. These new projects bring density and people that will spend their evenings and weekends frequenting downtown establishments. To me the influx of mid-rise residential and needed infill is more an auspicious determiner then a 50-story building. People don't move to a city because it has a building over 50-stories. People move to the city because of its energy, walk-ability, transit, jobs and nightlight. Salt Lake is headed in the right direction in all of those areas listed. We will get a 50-story building sooner than later, but we can't forget that we have three skyscrapers that we know will be built in the next few years and there is a lot of residential coming into the city. Salt Lake is booming, the growth is just being spread out a bit, which in the end will make it a far more interesting city, than any 500-foot building can.

[Orlando]

Any word on 151? What's the latest? Is it stalled?

[SLC Projects]

Moving the refineries will be a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵, much like trying to move the state prison. Nobody wants it.