The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[franktko]

Originally Posted by MexiQuebecois

Killing bus lanes?

[niwell]

Give the LRT money to Mississauga. Sorry Hamilton, ya blew it.

But seriously, when I was there last weekend I distinctly remember 3 through lanes of traffic as well as the bus lane. That seems pretty adequate...

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

GO's way of dealing with passes for Presto users is really great in that context. Pay a regular fare until you reach a certain number of rides, and then everything is free for the rest of the month (at least that's how I think it work, am I wrong?).

The PRESTO deal is pretty bad actually, as you have to ride to and from the same place to get the deal.

Before, you could get a monthly pass, and it was good for trips that also were in-between your monthly pass origin and destination, as well as other lines near your line, depending on the zone.
Now, all those trips cost an extra PRESTO fare. So if you travel only between two spots it is great. But if you really want to encourage transit for more than work trips, then it is not.

[Innsertnamehere]

^nope, you just need to make the allotted amount of trips. The amount you pay depending how far you travel and GO does some fancy calculations for it.

You will pay a small amount over 40 trips if you travel further than your average distance, however. If you average say, 5 zones, travelling 7 zones will cost you $0.30 or something.

[Daveography]

Originally Posted by MexiQuebecois

"With some reforms, it can be a way to travel that respects the rights of car users on our roads"

Aaaand there's the problem right there. This mentality that driving is a right. The notion that car users demand respect above all other transportation options and uses.

Maddening and frustrating.

[SkahHigh]

At Montreal-West Station

15 minutes after sunrise by Michael Berry Railfan, on Flickr

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Daveography

Aaaand there's the problem right there. This mentality that driving is a right. The notion that car users demand respect above all other transportation options and uses.

Maddening and frustrating.

You're right. Vehicles that carry a much larger number of people should be given a much higher priority.

[ScreamingViking]

Some context around the Hamilton bus lane issue - here's a map of city wards based on councilor vote, relative to the location of the lane:


Source

There is often a tendency for Hamilton council debates to reflect a lower/inner city position vs. a suburban one (including wards 6, 7, and 8 on the "mountain" that include older development in their northern neighbourhoods). It's held the city back in so many ways, especially on issues like transit.

The "yay" councilors understand the local benefit, the temporary and perceived issues for traffic and businesses, and the bigger picture.

• They argued for the lane on its benefit to city mobility and economic development, and its social and environmental benefits;
• Also that it transported as many or more people as the other lanes combined, and that cancelling it sends a poor message to the province.
• They backed up their position with evidence from the pilot project.
• They saw a case for improving some of the known issues with the lane to make it work better.

The "nay" councilors all say they want to improve transit in the city, but when it comes to making a decision on a key first step they backed off.

• One could not understand how the lane could be extended eastward into his ward (5 - he's the one who made the motion to kill) and he feels the city should not make a change like this until transportation reaches a crisis level.
• Others quibbled over issues like street parking or complaints they heard about congestion (i.e., a few minutes worth during peak times).
• Evidence was dismissed, or ignored. One had previously accused the city's transit staff of having a bias in the report they presented.

A long-term plan for transit is up for discussion soon so we'll see how well the "nays" actually respect their pro city-wide transit rhetoric, in spite of how they voted on this item.

It's a constant frustration, this kind of debate. It especially rears up regarding downtown issues, some of them quite small in the fiscal picture (like bike lanes, and one-way street conversions) with small/no impact on outer wards... yet there is usually little debate over spending tens of millions on new suburban infrastructure (some of it needed, no argument there, but so is the stuff in the core).

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by niwell

Give the LRT money to Mississauga. Sorry Hamilton, ya blew it.

But seriously, when I was there last weekend I distinctly remember 3 through lanes of traffic as well as the bus lane. That seems pretty adequate...

Better yet give it to London.

The GTHA is already getting a crap load of transit money and London has the 4th highest transit ridership in Ontario and the 3rd highest percapita after Toronto and Ottawa. It's ridership in actual and per capita terms is higher than Hamilton's yet Hamilton's system serves far more people.

London is planning a BRT system and any new funding should go London's way.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Better yet give it to London.

The GTHA is already getting a crap load of transit money and London has the 4th highest transit ridership in Ontario and the 3rd highest percapita after Toronto and Ottawa. It's ridership in actual and per capita terms is higher than Hamilton's yet Hamilton's system serves far more people.

London is planning a BRT system and any new funding should go London's way.

In the 10-year "Moving Ontario Forward" plan, there is $14 billion for transportation investments outside of the GTHA to go with the $15B in that region.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Better yet give it to London.

London is planning a BRT system and any new funding should go London's way.

There is supposed to be a big transit related announcement in London on Tuesday at our new mayor's chamber of commerce speech.

I think a lesson to be learned in Hamilton is this: simply changing a traffic lane to transit only seems like a half assed solution. People have to see a bigger strategy to be sold on the benefits, not just a bus only paint job in a lane of traffic. When I was in Mississauga a few weeks back, I saw their dedicated road for MiWay and stations for passengers. To me it said - "hey, we are building something here that is permenant". What Hamilton just did by having a half ass solution is build a lot of negativity towards investing in transit in the future. Not good. Hope London doesn't follow the Hammer's footsteps.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

^nope, you just need to make the allotted amount of trips. The amount you pay depending how far you travel and GO does some fancy calculations for it.

You will pay a small amount over 40 trips if you travel further than your average distance, however. If you average say, 5 zones, travelling 7 zones will cost you $0.30 or something.

That is not how it works, and I know first hand as I used to deal with PRESTO at an old job.

Each trip is counted separate, and the discount only works on the trip you take the most each month.
I can travel from Port Credit to Union everyday, and hit the 40 trips that make it free the rest of the month. But if I decide on my 41st trip to go from Union to say Oakville, I pay the full fare.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Better yet give it to London.

Canada's smaller cities are just not stepping up to the plate when it comes to transit, like they did in the past.

I know Ottawa was a little larger. But look at Ottawa 30 years ago compared to London.

London should have been planning for LRT or busways 10 years ago. And that goes for a host of other cities like Hamilton, and Quebec City.

[miketoronto]

Get ready for the much awaited Scarborough subway



http://www.scarboroughsubwayextension.ca

Great to see a website is up.


Travel Times
Bloor-Yonge to Scarborough Centre Station

Driving: 20 minutes
Existing Transit Service: 35-40 minutes
With the Scarborough Subway Extension: 25 minutes (estimating)

Much much more competitive with the auto.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

There is supposed to be a big transit related announcement in London on Tuesday at our new mayor's chamber of commerce speech.

I think a lesson to be learned in Hamilton is this: simply changing a traffic lane to transit only seems like a half assed solution. People have to see a bigger strategy to be sold on the benefits, not just a bus only paint job in a lane of traffic. When I was in Mississauga a few weeks back, I saw their dedicated road for MiWay and stations for passengers. To me it said - "hey, we are building something here that is permenant". What Hamilton just did by having a half ass solution is build a lot of negativity towards investing in transit in the future. Not good. Hope London doesn't follow the Hammer's footsteps.

Doing things like creating a dedicated BRT road is much easier when there's a dedicated right of way already waiting to be used. In a dense urban environment where no such riht of way exists, creating one is a much greater task.

There's an old saying that states "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good". In other words, don't let the insistence on achieving the the most challenging and possibly unattainable goal prevent one from doing something good that can actually be realized.

Keeping buses from getting mired in traffic downtown which is often the most congested part of a city is a good thing. Sitting around doing nothing until you can realize a perfect, city-wide transit dream that may or may not even happen is not.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Doing things like creating a dedicated BRT road is much easier when there's a dedicated right of way already waiting to be used. In a dense urban environment where no such riht of way exists, creating one is a much greater task.

There's an old saying that states "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good". In other words, don't let the insistence on achieving the the most challenging and possibly unattainable goal prevent one from doing something good that can actually be realized.

Keeping buses from getting mired in traffic downtown which is often the most congested part of a city is a good thing. Sitting around doing nothing until you can realize a perfect, city-wide transit dream that may or may not even happen is not.

Yes, easy to build and easy to remove when people complain.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

There is supposed to be a big transit related announcement in London on Tuesday at our new mayor's chamber of commerce speech.

I think a lesson to be learned in Hamilton is this: simply changing a traffic lane to transit only seems like a half assed solution. People have to see a bigger strategy to be sold on the benefits, not just a bus only paint job in a lane of traffic. When I was in Mississauga a few weeks back, I saw their dedicated road for MiWay and stations for passengers. To me it said - "hey, we are building something here that is permenant". What Hamilton just did by having a half ass solution is build a lot of negativity towards investing in transit in the future. Not good. Hope London doesn't follow the Hammer's footsteps.

Hamilton has no where to build any sort of Transitway equivalent. It's filled to the brim with city.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

I think a lesson to be learned in Hamilton is this: simply changing a traffic lane to transit only seems like a half assed solution. People have to see a bigger strategy to be sold on the benefits, not just a bus only paint job in a lane of traffic. When I was in Mississauga a few weeks back, I saw their dedicated road for MiWay and stations for passengers. To me it said - "hey, we are building something here that is permenant". What Hamilton just did by having a half ass solution is build a lot of negativity towards investing in transit in the future. Not good. Hope London doesn't follow the Hammer's footsteps.

This was intended as a pilot project out of a few hundred thousand in "quick win" money from Metrolinx, not a permanent fix (though it could and maybe should have become permanent, with adjustments). It was handled very lightly as far as selling people on it, but despite the early grumbling things seemed to settle down and people adapted.

Personally I think the pilot should have gone further - not so much in terms of distance though that could have been done, but in terms of giving more buses the opportunity to use the lane. All that happened here was existing transit service using King West got its own lane; what would have happened if the city beefed up service during the pilot too?

I completely agree it's important to have a bigger strategy and keep citizens informed about it. Hamilton has been ok generating strategies over the past couple of decades, but has done a bad job communicating them... problem is they've also been bad at implementation because when it comes time to make decisions on approving elements of the strategy that is often where the politics stops the progress.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Yes, easy to build and easy to remove when people complain.

So the biggest fault with the bus lane is the opposition from the suburban naysayers whereas a much larger, more elaborate system wouldn't experience such an issue?

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

Get ready for the much awaited Scarborough subway



http://www.scarboroughsubwayextension.ca

Great to see a website is up.


Travel Times
Bloor-Yonge to Scarborough Centre Station

Driving: 20 minutes
Existing Transit Service: 35-40 minutes
With the Scarborough Subway Extension: 25 minutes (estimating)

Much much more competitive with the auto.

This should have been the fully funded LRT. I still can't believe the money being wasted here for a few extra votes out of Scarborough. Well done Ford Nation. You put other Toronto transit needs on the back burner.