Winnipeg Construction VIII

[trueviking]

I was in LA for the two jets games last weekend and I have to admit, I was a bit sucked in by the development around the Staples Centre that looks a lot like this True North Square idea...its not usually my thing but it was pretty glitzy and sparkly.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I was in LA for the two jets games last weekend and I have to admit, I was a bit sucked in by the development around the Staples Centre that looks a lot like this True North Square idea...its not usually my thing but it was pretty glitzy and sparkly.

Well, to be fair, the Staples Center is a billion dollar arena with 3 professional sports teams drawing fans nearly every day of the week.

It's also, y'know, in southern California that makes it a tourist attraction at nearly all times during the year.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

^Yeah. One poster had said repeatedly it was for expansion of the Hydro substation next door.

expansion of the York Substation has appeared to have dropped off the latest report from MB Hydro to PUB for upcoming capital expenditures.

In previous years all the station upgrades were listed as line items.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I was in LA for the two jets games last weekend and I have to admit, I was a bit sucked in by the development around the Staples Centre that looks a lot like this True North Square idea...its not usually my thing but it was pretty glitzy and sparkly.

I was recently in Dallas and went to a Stars game and they have a much smaller, less glitzy "square" right outside of their arena which I thought was awesome. I would love to see something similar here in Winnipeg. I know the temperature in Dallas is much better than Winnipeg's but it would still be exciting.

[Riverman]

Reminds me of Yawkey Way outside of Fenway Park. Not sure this concept makes sense here given our cold climate.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

I was recently in Dallas and went to a Stars game and they have a much smaller, less glitzy "square" right outside of their arena which I thought was awesome. I would love to see something similar here in Winnipeg. I know the temperature in Dallas is much better than Winnipeg's but it would still be exciting.

As you point out, the problem with these types of squares in relation to Winnipeg is the weather... I'd wager that the only time you'd get people congregating in one before games is during the playoffs when the temperatures are mild.

That said, a large gathering of fans before the game does create a certain buzz... I've noticed that Bomber games at IGF have a bit more of that feel now, as fans tend to hang out at the various pre-game events around the stadium. But even that's mainly just in the summer/early fall, before it gets cold.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Biff

I was recently in Dallas and went to a Stars game and they have a much smaller, less glitzy "square" right outside of their arena which I thought was awesome. I would love to see something similar here in Winnipeg. I know the temperature in Dallas is much better than Winnipeg's but it would still be exciting.

The Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington area has a population of 7 million people. The greater Los Angeles area has a population of almost 16.5 million. These taxpayer subsidized 'stadium village' concepts are nearly always a complete bust. We need to move on from the concept that an arena in downtown Winnipeg is a draw for anything other than seeing a show. Because I can already see another convention centre case on the way where we're being asked to subsidize a bad idea on the basis of even worse projections.

There's simply no grand multiplier effect with sports.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Reminds me of Yawkey Way outside of Fenway Park. Not sure this concept makes sense here given our cold climate.

It'll be 25 degrees out and sunny during those long June nights of our Stanley Cup runs.

[CoryB]

Glendale has a similar setup outside the arena. Having seen the setup where it is square-->arena-->stadium I wondered how designed that mess. It would seem to make far more sense to set it up as arena<--square-->stadium especially with the Cardinals being far more relevant locally than the Coyotes could even dream of being. Instead if you want to enjoy the restaurants and bars off the square you need to walk around the long side of the arena to get to the stadium. The upside here is we do not need to worry about that issue since we build the stadium on a vacant field effectively in the middle of no where with little hope it can support its own SHED type development.

[bomberjet]

Glendale's arena is literally on the outskirts of town in a farmers field. With the mall areas built up around it. Not like this is in downtown Phoenix. LA Live is much better, more centrally located in LA. But yeah I don't think having a square specifically built for Jet fans to congregate in January is the best idea. I think they had said from the start is was more likely for playoffs and the push for the cup.

[esquire]

Football stadiums are never really the driving force behind these SHED dealies because 10 games a year is not enough to generate that kind of spinoff development... even if you have NFL-sized crowds. Most football stadiums are surrounded by parking lots or open space.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

The Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington area has a population of 7 million people. The greater Los Angeles area has a population of almost 16.5 million. These taxpayer subsidized 'stadium village' concepts are nearly always a complete bust. We need to move on from the concept that an arena in downtown Winnipeg is a draw for anything other than seeing a show. Because I can already see another convention centre case on the way where we're being asked to subsidize a bad idea on the basis of even worse projections.

There's simply no grand multiplier effect with sports.

Bang on! In what month that the Jets play in would anyone actually want to be outside at night (playoff's excluded)

[windypeg]

While we're at it we should probably just year up the forks and the river trail because really we don't have the weather for those kinds of outdoor spaces. And Assiniboine Park should be turned into box stores and parking lots because come on, this is Winnipeg you can only be outside for two months so why would we bother with parks? I'm sure no one will go to Festival du Voyageur this year, I mean its outside in February what a terrible idea. And someone tell those cross country skiers in Windsor park that its winter and they should get the hell indoors.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by windypeg

While we're at it we should probably just year up the forks and the river trail because really we don't have the weather for those kinds of outdoor spaces. And Assiniboine Park should be turned into box stores and parking lots because come on, this is Winnipeg you can only be outside for two months so why would we bother with parks? I'm sure no one will go to Festival du Voyageur this year, I mean its outside in February what a terrible idea. And someone tell those cross country skiers in Windsor park that its winter and they should get the hell indoors.

You're missing the point. These concepts are nearly always sold as being huge economic boons to the community and thus worthy of huge amounts of subsidy. Given one can count on one hand where they've amounted to successful (and all of them in warm climates that attract a lot of tourists) it's a bad idea. And its value isn't fortified because people already go outside here. Cross-country skiing or ice-skating are not comparable activities to standing around and shivering in the cold. Exercise tends to warm you up. And the Festival du Voyageur is once a year where people attend to enjoy the kitschy concept of winter while alternating between standing beside a fire and being inside a heated tent.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by windypeg

While we're at it we should probably just year up the forks and the river trail because really we don't have the weather for those kinds of outdoor spaces. And Assiniboine Park should be turned into box stores and parking lots because come on, this is Winnipeg you can only be outside for two months so why would we bother with parks? I'm sure no one will go to Festival du Voyageur this year, I mean its outside in February what a terrible idea. And someone tell those cross country skiers in Windsor park that its winter and they should get the hell indoors.

Clever, but how often do you see people lingering in, say, Air Canada Park (or whatever it's called) from October to April?

A "True North Square" would basically be a summer facility intended for use by fans of a sport that gets played in the winter. In other words, a mismatch.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by bmyers

Just a quick note, Winnipeg CMA rents have increased approximately 3.5% per year between 2000 and 2012 according to CMHC. If the top end of the market is $2.00 psf today and rents increase at a similar pace as the previous 12 years, that top end of the rental market would be at $2.30 psf in 2017 when our building is complete.

Just wanted to bring this one forward from back in September.

If rental rates increases compound exponentially and continually at a rate that outpaces inflation, we'll be able to get this thing done!

Fortress Real Investments, ladies & gentlemen...

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

Clever, but how often do you see people lingering in, say, Air Canada Park (or whatever it's called) from October to April?

A "True North Square" would basically be a summer facility intended for use by fans of a sport that gets played in the winter. In other words, a mismatch.

Could Winnipeg have a downtown skating rink like we have at Nathan Phillips Square in Toronto? I know there's one at the Forks, but couldn't there be one that's more centrally located?

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Could Winnipeg have a downtown skating rink like we have at Nathan Phillips Square in Toronto? I know there's one at the Forks, but couldn't there be one that's more centrally located?

I don't know the potential harm to the turf, but Central Park would be an ideal location for that during the winter months.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Could Winnipeg have a downtown skating rink like we have at Nathan Phillips Square in Toronto? I know there's one at the Forks, but couldn't there be one that's more centrally located?

Good idea...skating under the city lights is a quintessentially urban experience. The Forks is a little detached from that type of setting, so something like that at SoPo would be a bit different.

Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, I'm pretty sure I remember seeing Central Park flooded in the winter before, although I don't remember seeing the rink as well used as the soccer field is in the summer.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

Good idea...skating under the city lights is a quintessentially urban experience. The Forks is a little detached from that type of setting, so something like that at SoPo would be a bit different.

Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, I'm pretty sure I remember seeing Central Park flooded in the winter before, although I don't remember seeing the rink as well used as the soccer field is in the summer.

I was talking to one of the rink maintenance guys for the city the other day who's been doing this for years and he was telling me that he dutifully scrapes and floods the rinks in some of the more urban areas and tells me that he'll go nights without seeing anybody use them. His take is that they're largely immigrant populations in the areas now amongst the still remaining elderly. Given hockey is becoming a luxury sport, I'm not really that surprised.