Highways in Canada

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by Horus

I maintain that the signs posted are too ambiguous and do not clearly state what the rules of the road are. Someone driving 105 km/h in the middle lane may see the sign as presently worded and think "I'm not slow, I'm doing 5 over the limit", even though all other vehicles are zipping around him left and right at 120. Having the signs say "Keep right except to pass" would be more clear, IMO.

So you would prefer the signs that are used in Nova Scotia?

Google Streetview of Hwy 118

For the most part we use the signs on passing lanes on 100-series and trunk highways. They seem to do the trick though. Lane discipline is excellent here and given our under-built expressway system that is definitely needed.

Here most people stay in the right-lane until they are just within the unsafe braking distance, signal, move over, pass quickly, and the move back over once the car is centred in the rear-view mirror.

[eemy]

How many 6 lane highways are there in Nova Scotia, and are people as disciplined on them? Most drivers in Ontario try to keep the left lane clear unless passing, it is the centre lane that is problematic.

[niwell]

Apparently it's incorrect, but in a 6 lane setup I was always told to use the centre lane as the primary lane of travel unless you are a particularly slow driver. Left lane for passing and right lane for exiting, people merging on, slow traffic and most trucking. It makes sense to me, but I am usually going at least 120 in Ontario (barring traffic).

[eemy]

Hmm, it hadn't occurred to me that maybe people were taught that, since it is plainly contrary to the Highway Traffic Act. I always just assumed people were too lazy to change lanes and the centre lane is the easiest one to get away with that.

[Hali87]

6-lane highways aren't common in Nova Scotia outside of metro Halifax (there might be a couple in the Sydney-Glace Bay area, not sure). People tend to stick to the right lane unless they are stuck behind a slow-moving vehicle or it is an area with frequent entrance-exit ramps. Even on freeways, people generally stick to within 10km/h of the speed limit (which ranges from 70 to 110, depending on context). Doing 120 in a 90 or 100 zone would present a significant risk of getting pulled over. Driving in Ontario I was always baffled by the drivers staying in the left lane forever, totally ignoring speed limits, and most of all the signs detailing what fines correspond to what speed infractions... IIRC there were areas where the signs implied that there was no penalty for going 10-20km over the speed limit.

In my drivers ed class, though, we were taught that the middle lane was generally the safest place to be. There are a few freeways here (the 111 in particular... it's the widest) where you basically have to choose your lane depending on which exit you want... no sense being in the right lane and then having to switch lanes 2 or 3 times, through traffic, to get to the correct lane for your exit.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by niwell

Apparently it's incorrect, but in a 6 lane setup I was always told to use the centre lane as the primary lane of travel unless you are a particularly slow driver. Left lane for passing and right lane for exiting, people merging on, slow traffic and most trucking. It makes sense to me, but I am usually going at least 120 in Ontario (barring traffic).

Yeah, basically this.

[haljackey]

6 lane highways

From right to left.

Expected result: travel lane, passing lane, second passing lane
Actual result: entrance/exit/truck/slow lane, travel lane, passing lane

Solution: teach proper lane discipline in driver's ed / driver's handbook.

[Trevor3]

Originally Posted by Hali87

6-lane highways aren't common in Nova Scotia outside of metro Halifax (there might be a couple in the Sydney-Glace Bay area, not sure). People tend to stick to the right lane unless they are stuck behind a slow-moving vehicle or it is an area with frequent entrance-exit ramps. Even on freeways, people generally stick to within 10km/h of the speed limit (which ranges from 70 to 110, depending on context). Doing 120 in a 90 or 100 zone would present a significant risk of getting pulled over. Driving in Ontario I was always baffled by the drivers staying in the left lane forever, totally ignoring speed limits, and most of all the signs detailing what fines correspond to what speed infractions... IIRC there were areas where the signs implied that there was no penalty for going 10-20km over the speed limit.

In my drivers ed class, though, we were taught that the middle lane was generally the safest place to be. There are a few freeways here (the 111 in particular... it's the widest) where you basically have to choose your lane depending on which exit you want... no sense being in the right lane and then having to switch lanes 2 or 3 times, through traffic, to get to the correct lane for your exit.

Nothing of the sort around Sydney. The biggest highway is the 4 lane Peacekeepers Way from North Sydney into town. The road to Glace Bay is essentially a rural route: undivided, one lane each way once you pass the university and airport.

I'm going to throw out there that a lot people have either little or no experience with 6 lane highways, I've never driven on one. They are non-existent unless you live in a major city, though obviously that would be a majority on this forum.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by haljackey

6 lane highways

From right to left.

Expected result: travel lane, passing lane, second passing lane
Actual result: entrance/exit/truck/slow lane, travel lane, passing lane

Very true. Except the slowest drivers are often in the middle lane, oblivious to their surroundings.

Originally Posted by haljackey

Solution: teach proper lane discipline in driver's ed / driver's handbook.

...And it's in the Driver's Handbook (at least in Ontario) (Sec 2.2.3):
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/handbook/section2.2.3.shtml

Keep right

Keep to the right of the road or in the right-hand lane on multi-lane roads unless you want to turn left or pass another vehicle. This is especially important if you are driving more slowly than other vehicles.

Also in the section about freeway driving (Sec 2.9.2):
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/handbook/section2.9.2.shtml

Once on the freeway, a safe driver travels at a steady speed, looking forward and anticipating what’s going to happen on the road ahead. Traffic should keep to the right, using the left lanes for passing.

Use the far left lane of a multi-lane freeway to pass traffic moving slower than the speed limit, but don’t stay there. Drive in the right-hand lane when possible. On many freeways with three or more lanes in each direction, large trucks cannot travel in the far left lane and must use the lane to the right for passing. Get into the habit of driving in the right lane, leaving the other lanes clear for passing.

[Procrastinational]

At least you guys don't have to deal with the mayhem that is 4 lane highways in BC.

People seem to divide themselves into left and right lane drivers, and never stray from it.
Going through the Fraser Valley on Highway 1 is exceptionally bad. The right lane is often a little slower than I like to travel, hovering around the speed limit, and there are lots of trucks, and slower drivers.

The left lane on the other hand, is always full of people hellbent on driving 30+ over the limit, and they end up all cramming in behind one another so that there are 4 times as many cars in the same amount of left lane as right lane. As a result, the left lane is constantly surging up to 125 km/h, then braking heavily to below the speed limit.
It basically averages out to both lanes travelling at a similar speed, but the right lane is much more consistent in speed.
How hard can it be to do a constant 110??

Makes it really hard to follow the keep right except to pass laws because if you are driving along in the right lane, there are so many people so close together in the left lane that you have to follow a slower vehicle for a few minutes before you get a chance to pass it, so most people in a rush just stay in the left lane permanently.

[MolsonExport]

There are assholish drivers and then there are assholish drivers on the 401 in Toronto. Worst on the continent. OK, maybe not including Mexico and points south. In terms of roadmanship in Canada, you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.


On another note, who the fuck wants to drive in the truck/merge lane? Unless you have travelled extensively on the 401 in and around Toronto, you haven't got a clue what I am talking about.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

On another note, who the fuck wants to drive in the truck/merge lane? Unless you have travelled extensively on the 401 in and around Toronto, you haven't got a clue what I am talking about.

Yeah, I can see the right lane thing working in areas with sparse traffic, but in southern Ontario that doesn't really work. Unless you are travelling at 100km/hr you will be making a lot of lane changes out of the right. And given the traffic volumes it can be difficult getting out of the right lane if you are stuck behind someone slow to pass - especially if your cars acceleration isn't the greatest.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

On another note, who the fuck wants to drive in the truck/merge lane? Unless you have travelled extensively on the 401 in and around Toronto, you haven't got a clue what I am talking about.

I do. Because it's usually clear all the way up the hill, even the truck drivers in Alberta don't use them. I know it's not really the right thing to do, but everyone else is doing the wrong thing so who cares! (Purely talking about the hill climb lanes though).

So are people actually taught to use the middle lane? Because I'd say only maybe 5% of drivers make any effort to stay right.



There are often signs like this on the motorways in the UK, and another I'm sure another I remember seeing was 'don't hog the middle lane' - but I can't find any images of that. Drivers there are no saints, but they seem at least a little better at staying in the correct lane. It won't be long before some BMW driver comes up doing 110 (miles per hour) flashing you anyway if you hang out in the overtaking lanes.

[eemy]

Often times there are long stretches where the right lane is mostly clear and if you're travelling at or slightly faster than the pace of the rest of traffic, it is perfectly efficient to remain in the right lane. Between Cambridge and Milton, for example, interchanges are relatively sparse, so you aren't constantly dealing with merging traffic.

Hwy 400 heading north to Barrie (but not south) has an even better righthand lane outside of weekends during cottage season (but every lane is slow then). Almost all traffic in the lane is exiting and very little is coming onto the highway. Also, because everyone likes to sit in the centre lane, most traffic I encounter in the lane is exiting at the next interchange. Coupled with the fact that there are relatively few transports compared to the 401 and it's smooth sailing. It's not unusual for me to be able to cruise along in the lane between 110 and 120 without having to brake or slow down and only change lanes a few times while all the rubes in the left two lanes jockey for positions and slow and speed up constantly. It's a much more relaxing ride than if I attempted to do the same in the centre lane.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Often times there are long stretches where the right lane is mostly clear and if you're travelling at or slightly faster than the pace of the rest of traffic, it is perfectly efficient to remain in the right lane. Between Cambridge and Milton, for example, interchanges are relatively sparse, so you aren't constantly dealing with merging traffic.

Hwy 400 heading north to Barrie (but not south) has an even better righthand lane outside of weekends during cottage season (but every lane is slow then). Almost all traffic in the lane is exiting and very little is coming onto the highway. Also, because everyone likes to sit in the centre lane, most traffic I encounter in the lane is exiting at the next interchange. Coupled with the fact that there are relatively few transports compared to the 401 and it's smooth sailing. It's not unusual for me to be able to cruise along in the lane between 110 and 120 without having to brake or slow down and only change lanes a few times while all the rubes in the left two lanes jockey for positions and slow and speed up constantly. It's a much more relaxing ride than if I attempted to do the same in the centre lane.

I have noticed exactly the same thing. With appropriate traffic conditions, I often drive in the right hand lane on rural freeways moving over and back when I need to pass a vehicle moving slowly. During normal traffic conditions, its entirely possible to drive between 110-120 utilizing the right lane, so long as one doesn't have any qualms about passing other traffic on the right. I find driving this way to be more leisurely since I am seldom in a line of cars like I would be in one of the other lanes.

[ssiguy]

As a BC I wish I could contribute to this conversation but we only have a 30km stretch of 6 lane road in the entire province.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

As a BC I wish I could contribute to this conversation but we only have a 30km stretch of 6 lane road in the entire province.

If you are going to use the term road then this is a complete lie. The are many 6 lane stretches of roads and highways in BC (with at grade intersections).

And if you are talking freeways only it is still somewhat of a lie. There are 6 lane stretches along the 91 and the 99, there are also 6 lane stretches of the #5, GEW is 6 lanes over the Golden Ears Bridge, and there are many locations of third add \ drop lanes between interchanges, and climbing lanes.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by milomilo

There are often signs like this on the motorways in the UK, and another I'm sure another I remember seeing was 'don't hog the middle lane' - but I can't find any images of that. Drivers there are no saints, but they seem at least a little better at staying in the correct lane. It won't be long before some BMW driver comes up doing 110 (miles per hour) flashing you anyway if you hang out in the overtaking lanes.

I think this is what you're looking for. Hooray for highway rules that make sense!

[Infrequent Poster]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

If you are going to use the term road then this is a complete lie. The are many 6 lane stretches of roads and highways in BC (with at grade intersections).

And if you are talking freeways only it is still somewhat of a lie. There are 6 lane stretches along the 91 and the 99, there are also 6 lane stretches of the #5, GEW is 6 lanes over the Golden Ears Bridge, and there are many locations of third add \ drop lanes between interchanges, and climbing lanes.

No it is actually pretty true in my opinion. six general purpose lanes from cassiar tunnel to 200 st on highway one. This is really the only continuous stretch of 6 lane freeway in BC. (Think there might be a bit when you enter into Kamloops but its been a long time cant really remember).

If you want to include add on drop of lanes, then sure there are a handfull of other places, usually bridges/tunnels and there approaches, but within the context of the conversation that was happening in the prior posts, I wouldnt include them as they are usually only maybe a km long. Maybe less and you would only be in that lane to exit or enter the freeway before the lane ends.

Also yes there are some six lane arterial roads in metro vancouver. Though many of them allow parking in the curb lane so really most of the time they are 4 lane roads (except during peak hours).

Vancouver has a mickey mouse road system. It really does. Compared to any other city its size and many cities much smaller then it.

Not trying to hate on Vancouver here (its my city) but this is the infuriating truth of the matter.

[Metro-One]

Hence I said if talking about freeways it is only somewhat of a lie.

As for non freeway roads there are 6 lane stretches in BC (he was not only talking about Vancouver) that are more than just lanes that allow curb parking.

Perfect examples are the Lougheed Highway from Maple Ridge to Poco and long stretches of the 97 through Kelowna (which is currently having its 6 lane width expanded further).

Not going to disagree that Metro-Vancouver and BC need to continue improving their highway networks (and I am hoping to hear some major new project announcements soon this spring when the government releases the 10 billion dollar plan), but I get tired of ssiguys hyperboles.

Also, over the last 10 years highways throughout BC have radically been expanded (yes, much more work to do) but I feel all this expansion has not pleased the nay sayers one bit.

So now I feel even if the 99 is widened to 6 or 8 lanes (with a Massey Bridge), the #1 is widened to 6 lanes to Abbotford (which all the new interchanges are designed for), and more interchages are added to the Okanagan and the Island, memebers such as ssiguy will still bitch and moan, there will never be enough.

And also, I am happy that BC is not building American style super highways. In Japan, a country of 120 million with very high personal car ownership, there are very few highways and freeways wider than 4 lanes. Same in Europe, there are many great road networks, but most are much slimer than their US counterparts. For BC, most areas 4 lanes is enough, some spots need 6 (such as to Abbotsford) and only a couple locations need 8 (the #1 through Metro Van which now has 8, and maybe the 99, with 2 of them being HOV / Bus)