The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[daveraver]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Regarding Nordstrom, if there's no room for another lower-cost department store, I can't imagine there's room for a high end one...

Nordstrom will do just fine. They are exceeding plan in Calgary and I expect the same situation for the upcoming new Ottawa store. Their approach entering Canada is MUCH different. Vastly different situation from Target.

[daveraver]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't know the way international accounting works, but could they not continue to use their Canadian losses to save taxes?

Yes HBC could certainly look to pick up their old assets for pennies on the dollar. I would think they should try an "HBC-rack" style store. The Marshalls/TJMaxx/Winners group is doing well IIRC.

Walmart could expand too.

Props to Target for providing 16 weeks severance.

What I'd like to see is a net new retailer enter Canada. The thought of more Walmarts being added to what already exists in Canada makes my stomach turn. At least having Target in Canada provided some options.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by phesto

Sony is closing all Canadian stores in the next two months:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on...ions-in-next-two-months/article22464241/

I think they are only in PC and Metrotown?

I know there is one more at Ricmond centre just below the food court.

[officedweller]

Marshall's hasn't expanded as much as I thought
- but it's the same as Winners (except that Marshall's has their shoes in shoe boxes),
so maybe the Canadian branding is better than the American branding?

[SpongeG]

marshalls was never as saturated as its owner TJ Maxx in the states

They do tend to stock higher end brands than winners or at least seem to have more - finding higher end at winners is only a few select locations in comparison

sad to see target go, where will i get my anatomicals now, maybe london drugs can pick them up

I don't get Canadians whining, even old coworkers whining that they never had the selection. what selection was missing? Target canada carried all the same goods in its own store brands, like mossimo, nate berkus, threshold, etc.

as for outside brands ie neutrogena, tide, kraft etc. they were limited to what the canadian distributors could provide them, if Kraft Canada didn't carry X-product in Canada Target couldn't do anything about it, it would be insane to have to import it from the states.

Also don't Canadians know all products need french and english packaging? so we would get some US product with a sad label slapped on it or do what Kiehls does and ruin the entire packaging by covering it with a bulky label covering the US label.

ridiculous

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Simons Park Royal progressing nicely! Exciting times for Vancouver retail, the addition of two exciting major department stores chains in 2015!

Photo By : connect2source

it looks good in person, you can get some good shots of the other sides from the parkade.

as for it being a department store, i wouldn't really classify it in league with the bay or nordstrom or holt renfrew.

It's basically like H&M with selected designer name brands thrown in to the mix. it seems to be 75% in-house brands and there is no proper shoe department or beauty/cosmetic/fragrance dept. either.

I go there everytime i get a chance in edmonton but it doesn't really feel like a department store to me

[GMasterAres]

Target failed because they (1) came to Canada far too fast, (2) couldn't differentiate themselves from the options we already had, and (3) did not have competitive prices on most items. The selection argument is valid but not specifically for Target. All the US retailers have selection issues. You can buy 10 times the items in US Home Depot than Canadian Home Depot. You can buy 10 times the items in US Walmart than Canadian Walmart. ALL Canadian retailers have less of a selection than US counterparts, so again that wasn't a Target issue. Just go onto Walmart.com for example and type something in like sleeping bag then switch to the Canadian Walmart.ca. US one will give you 600+ items. You do the same in walmart.ca and you get 41 items. 41 items in Canada, 600+ in the US. Anyone that says selection isn't an issue in Canada is obtuse.

That's largely why people still shop in the US even with our 83 cent dollar. But again, selection wasn't a Target exclusive issue, it is a reality for all retailers in Canada and much of that is a result of our import laws (which include our ridiculous requirement to label everything in French and English).

There is/was a Target just in Surrey Central where my wife and I live and she was quite excited when Target first opened because she was a fan of shopping in Target in the US. She went over the first week and came back and basically said "Wow that is pretty 🞵🞵🞵🞵. I'll just go back to Walmart/Superstore to get stuff because it is more expensive than both and has the same types of items and actually far less."

We experienced that in the US too for example where we went to several retailers including Target and they carried different makes of specific items. For example two US retailers including Walmart had a certain make of 4 slot shelf we wanted for our baby's room (cheap and cheerful didn't need to be super quality) but Target had a different brand that was better quality.

When we shopped up here in Canada, Walmart Canada had the same make as Walmart US which was the model we didn't want, but Target Canada also had the same model of shelf, not the one they carried in the US. My wife and I were like "hmmm what?"

That told me that either they couldn't import the specific shelf from the US they had into Canada or their distribution network was poorly constructed here in Canada and I'd side with the latter since both shelves were "made in China." Not to mention the previous Target CEO last year said their distribution network was having a lot of problems and they were having issues figuring things out like Walmart has.

That's chiefly why we stopped going to Target, because they carried pretty much the same as you could find in Superstore or Walmart but for more expensive. Heck even for food, you go to target and you could get everything except Eggs and Milk. So we'd have to make another trip to either the Superstore or Safeway to get Eggs or Milk. Did that once then said screw that I'll just go to the Superstore, they're cheaper than _everyone_ anyway, even Walmart, when it comes to food.

So I'm not surprised. I'm interested in seeing who would step into fill that spot or if some of those spaces are split into multiple retail. For example in Surrey Central it is a split level and you could not crazily have the first floor become 1 retailer, and the second become another.

I don't see Walmart going in there because they have super centers in Guildford, 88th ave near Scott Road, and Morgan Crossing. Both Guildford and the 88th stores are less than 10 minute's drive from Surrey Central so a new location in SC would compete with their own stores.

Hudson's Bay is in Guildford and they aren't in an amazing financial position nor is Sears. So who else could even move in there at this stage unless it is a complete relocation aka closing 1 store and opening a new on in Surrey Central. Maybe they should redo that part of the mall, get a smaller retailer for the first or maybe second floor, and then break it into smaller retail locations with some redevelopment (mixed use, office, residential, etc.) The entire Surrey Central mall needs to have more redevelopment in my eyes as Guildford really is the king of shopping for most of North Surrey.

I know when I think shopping at a mall, my first thought is to go to Guildford mall or jump SkyTrain to Metrotown before Surrey Central. I only go into SC to pick up my mail at the post office.

[memememe76]

Heck even for food, you go to target and you could get everything except Eggs and Milk. So we'd have to make another trip to either the Superstore or Safeway to get Eggs or Milk.

I swear it's the opposite. You can get (grade A) eggs and milk, but no other foods. Do people actually buy fruit and vegetables at a Target? Do they have a bakery (pre-packaged Oreos don't count)?

[SpongeG]

perhaps target tried to carry some canadian brands that canadians would be familiar with, like wabasso, and canadians were like we don't want canadian stuff

walmart actually bought some canadian companies when it opened in canada like penmans, they bought the company, shut down all the manufacturing in the maritimes where it was based and moved it to china but they wanted canadians to have a familiar brand when it opened and canadians bought into it

and why are you people not shoping at costco? its so much cheaper than walmart lol i never buy food there cause its too much quantity but most everything else is doable, like costco size laundry stuff, toothpaste etc

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by memememe76

I swear it's the opposite. You can get (grade A) eggs and milk, but no other foods. Do people actually buy fruit and vegetables at a Target? Do they have a bakery (pre-packaged Oreos don't count)?

you could buy packaged things like "bakery" muffins, croissants, cookies etc. in the fresh food section ie where the milk and cheese were on stands in the middle - but i have to admit most of the time all that was there was the price tags

I recall seeing fruit but it was more like the way 7-11 has/sells fruit

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by AudiA3

Wow.... Our economy is so screwed...

I suspect after Mexx, Target and Sony closures, the following retailers will also shut down:
- Le Chateau
- Vision Electronics
- Best Buy & Futureshop
- NCIX

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not given the closures are American retailers pulling out of Canada and the list you just provided, with the exception of Best Buy (which is doing fine now) are all Canadian only retailers (ignoring online at this stage).

So it's kind of like saying "Oh wow Target, Mexx, and Sony closures, I suspect next will be Canadian Tire, Canadian Superstore, and London Drugs..." Nothing to do with our economy and everything to do with US retailers thinking Canada is exactly the same as the US just slightly colder. We're not. Our laws are different, our infrastructure is different, our import regulations are different, our taxation is different, and heck our shopping practices are different.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by memememe76

I swear it's the opposite. You can get (grade A) eggs and milk, but no other foods. Do people actually buy fruit and vegetables at a Target? Do they have a bakery (pre-packaged Oreos don't count)?

They don't have that either. I couldn't find any eggs or milk at the Target in Surrey Central when I shopped there the one time, maybe they were out, and maybe it was just that location. But you're right, I completely missed the whole no fruits, vegetables, or baked goods which last I checked is a large amount of what people should really be eating. Not to mention compare their meat selection to even Walmart, and it is like "hmm ok?"

So I wonder why they even bothered with food. Not to mention in Surrey Central you are 5 minutes from 2 x Superstores, you have a Safeway and Price Smart 1 block away, and a T&T in the same mall. Target didn't need a food section and I wonder how much money would have been saved if they did things a bit smarter, open up smaller and fewer locations, focus on their own brands.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

perhaps target tried to carry some canadian brands that canadians would be familiar with, like wabasso, and canadians were like we don't want canadian stuff

walmart actually bought some canadian companies when it opened in canada like penmans, they bought the company, shut down all the manufacturing in the maritimes where it was based and moved it to china but they wanted canadians to have a familiar brand when it opened and canadians bought into it

and why are you people not shoping at costco? its so much cheaper than walmart lol i never buy food there cause its too much quantity but most everything else is doable, like costco size laundry stuff, toothpaste etc

Walmart isn't the cheapest for food. Superstore still is. Only time I buy any food at Walmart is if I'm already there and they have like $10 cheap chicken or something. Their specials can be pretty good, a nice sized package of pre-marinated chicken breasts for $10 for example. That isn't the norm though, I find nobody really beat the Superstore.

I don't buy at Costco because

(1) the yearly maintenance fee
(2) the ridiculous lines (every time I've gone to Costco I spent almost an hour waiting in line to pay for my stuff, the one in Surrey is ridiculously busy)
(3) you can't get everything under one roof and I invariably need to go to the Superstore to get other every-day stuff they don't carry
(4) many items that are 'cheaper' than even the Superstore you have to buy 10 of like ketchup, who needs that much ketchup!? Ok the per/bottle price is super cheap, but I had to buy _10_ that's like 10 years of usage in my house and it won't last that long...
(5) I have a sister with a membership who can get me garbage bags and bulk stuff the few times I need it

My wife and I tend to not do big shoppings, we shop all through the week. Aka we won't do a giant once a month shopping or even once per week. We just get things as we need it and I'll either swing by the Superstore on my way home, or she'll stop by T&T, Safeway, or Price Smart during the day. Costco always seems to be a half day affair just because of the lines. Heck parking in Surrey can take you 20 minutes.

My time is worth more than the $15 I may save overall on a bill and still have to go somewhere else to get a few essential items.

[SpongeG]

i like that only have to go to costco once a month or less to get stuff

one example they sell 500g of this particular chocolate i like at walmart superstore for $10.99 you get 1 kg at costco for $11.99 and its a costco exclusive same chocolate (moritz icy squares)

also they sell 3 packs of tazo chai the kind from starbucks for $8 for three and they are $7 each at starbucks and about the same at walmart and superstore

anyway for myself i find the stuff i would buy much cheaper at costco, but if i can get bonus airmiles i shop at safeway lol

my costco in grande prairie has really short lines and self checkout something i never saw in the costcos in vancouver area - i wanted to kill myself at the richmond costco when i was home at christmas lol the crowds oi vei i do not miss city living at all

[NetMapel]

It would have been pretty sweet if Nordstrom Rack come in just in time to take over Target in the Metrotown space... but alas, that probably won't be the case

[WarrenC12]

Costco is great. When something is on sale there, the price is unbeatable, and they stock quality product, not dollar-store 🞵🞵🞵🞵 you find at Superstone. RCSS has its uses, but I would never consider it a real comparison to Costco.

Regarding Target, here's an excellent viewpoint from a senior leader:

http://gawker.com/why-was-target-canada-such-a-disaster-1579554288

This comment was bang-on too:

Something that I think is missing out on here is the question of why Target is successful in the United States in the first place. To a large extent, it actually isn't the experience you have there but the perception of the experience.

Basically Target is Walmart for people who don't want to admit that they shop at Walmart.

Shopping at Walmart means that you're poor. No one wants to think that they're poor. So they shop at Target instead. That just means they're thrifty.

When Target came into Canada, the first thing they did was to take over more than a hundred Zellers locations. For those not in Canada, Zellers is essentially Walmart only more crappy. Walmart might be for poor people, but they are generally clean and well stocked. Zellers stores often weren't.

So, Target moves into all of these Zellers stores and fumbles out of the gate. They are no longer "Walmart for people who don't want to shop at Walmart" but are "Zellars but not as well stocked and more expensive."

When it's just as shameful to go to Target as it is to go to Walmart, you should at least go to the place that's run well.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Would've been prefect in the old storyeum site, tried selling them on it years ago but they weren't interested at the time.

That would have actually added some life to the area instead of VFS.

---

I would not be surprised to hear of more best buy/futureshop closures in the near future especially the location in that ghost town complex on marine drive. With warnings on their sales/earnings their shares took a 14% hit yesterday.

On sony store, i can't even believe it lasted as long as it did. Did anyone ever actually buy anything at those stores or were they more showrooms than anything else?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by theKB

I would not be surprised to hear of more best buy/futureshop closures in the near future especially the location in that ghost town complex on marine drive. With warnings on their sales/earnings their shares took a 14% hit yesterday.

I think that Marine Dr. complex is waiting on all the development at Cambie and Marine to finish. If nothing improves in the following 12 months I would expect closures.

I'm surprised Target called it quits so fast. Like they didn't even try.

[DesignerBunny]

My reliable source has told me that 3 new stand alone high end fashion brands have signed leases for the 3 retail spaces at the base of 745 Thurlow. 2 are menswear brands, one being Strellson from Switzerland who is taking the space fronting Alberni Street.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by DesignerBunny

My reliable source has told me that 3 new stand alone high end fashion brands have signed leases for the 3 retail spaces at the base of 745 Thurlow. 2 are menswear brands, one being Strellson from Switzerland who is taking the space fronting Alberni Street.

Thanks for the tip. I wonder what is going in the remaining units at The Carlyle across the street.