PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by tsarstruck

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-p...on-the-Delaware.html#42uTQXDrCT0eSDQL.99

well no one can say bart doesn't have balls

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by br323206

How did you get from that post that the poster thinks Floridians are "gay-hating bigots." The poster was referring to Rick Scott specifically. They also didn't say "dumb" they said "evil." While that's hyperbolic, I agree that Scott has taken some hateful positions. I would also say that he was dumb in rejecting the high-speed rail money. But pertinent to your post, there is very real evidence that anti-gay policies hurt business, so I wouldn't call the OP's post dumb at all.

Rick Scott's bigotry notwithstanding, the facts are against you. Pennsylvania's job growth since 2011 is dead last. Florida ranks 6th. 613,000 jobs created (8.5%) as opposed to 117,000 (2.08%) in PA. The fact of the matter is the states don't subsist within a cartelized taxation market. The better tax policy in one state, the more demand from Americans you will see (yes, elasticity etc has been contemplated).

As a native Pennsylvanian who has neither lived outside PA nor plans to ever live outside PA (Philly, for that matter), I drool about the day we reach 8.5% in any three-year period, let alone a slow-growth period. Yes, macroeconomics, climate and demographics put northern states at a competitive disadvantage, but a lot of this space between us and FL has to do with tax and fee policy. A damn shame.

http://keystoneresearch.org/media-center/press-releases/pa-now-ranked-50th-job-growth-january-2011

[Plokoon11]

It would be ashamed to see that power plant get demolished it is such a landmark while driving from the north on 95.

[Philly-Drew]

Originally Posted by philatonian

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

I've always felt like a closer likeness was Bat Boy...


*

OMG, This is hilarious!

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Plokoon11

It would be ashamed to see that power plant get demolished it is such a landmark while driving from the north on 95.

Lol.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Rick Scott's bigotry notwithstanding, the facts are against you. Pennsylvania's job growth since 2011 is dead last. Florida ranks 6th. 613,000 jobs created (8.5%) as opposed to 117,000 (2.08%) in PA. The fact of the matter is the states don't subsist within a cartelized taxation market. The better tax policy in one state, the more demand from Americans you will see (yes, elasticity etc has been contemplated)

I don't know anything about Fla vs Pa taxes, but a big reason for Florida's job growth since 2011 is ridiculously obvious: housing recession recovery. Florida fared way worse than PA in the recession, suffered several down years, and it stands to reason, is recovering to normal levels, also with greater velocity. We all know the troughs are shallower, the peaks lower in PA's stolid, diversified economy. Florida has a more volatile economy than PA. The recoveries are roaring, the collapses epic.

How much of that has to do with tax/regulation, labor standards, employment base skills/costs, proximity to Latin America's endless human exodus, industrial composition, etc.?

No idea.

How much of the current growth disparity is due to Fla's structural economic advantages once you subtract out the effects of differences in the nature of each state's economic cycle?

No idea. But it is smaller than the figure you suggest above.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

I don't know anything about Fla vs Pa taxes, but a big reason for Florida's job growth since 2011 is ridiculously obvious: housing recession recovery. Florida fared way worse than PA in the recession, suffered several down years, and it stands to reason, is recovering to normal levels, also with greater velocity. We all know the troughs are shallower, the peaks lower in PA's stolid, diversified economy. Florida has a more volatile economy than PA. The recoveries are roaring, the collapses epic.

How much of that has to do with tax/regulation, labor standards, employment base skills/costs, proximity to Latin America's endless human exodus, industrial composition, etc.?

No idea.

How much of the current growth disparity is due to Fla's structural economic advantages once you subtract out the effects of differences in the nature of each state's economic cycle?

No idea. But it is smaller than the figure you suggest above.

Someone take a look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics for the States of PA and FL. Maybe someone can attempt to explain some of the economic stats and trends. Thanks!

http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.fl.htm

http://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/pennsylvania.htm#eag

[Cro Burnham]

It's also worth pointing out California has a higher growth rate than Florida, though it is solidly blue and a highly regulated and taxed economy. But it is also more volatile historically and also has zillions of Latin American immigrants.

[iheartphilly]

CA is a monster economy...something like 2 Trillion dollar GDP and very diverse. They are in a league of their own.

[Outta here]

Thought I read just last week , measured against world economies , California has the
8th. largest economy in the world . That's incredible .

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

I don't know anything about Fla vs Pa taxes, but a big reason for Florida's job growth since 2011 is ridiculously obvious: housing recession recovery. Florida fared way worse than PA in the recession, suffered several down years, and it stands to reason, is recovering to normal levels, also with greater velocity. We all know the troughs are shallower, the peaks lower in PA's stolid, diversified economy. Florida has a more volatile economy than PA. The recoveries are roaring, the collapses epic.

How much of that has to do with tax/regulation, labor standards, employment base skills/costs, proximity to Latin America's endless human exodus, industrial composition, etc.?

No idea.

How much of the current growth disparity is due to Fla's structural economic advantages once you subtract out the effects of differences in the nature of each state's economic cycle?

No idea. But it is smaller than the figure you suggest above.

If you track employment growth from 2000 to the present, the numbers parallel the 2% v 8%. While I wouldn't' want to live there, Florida has a much better business climate and the employment number trends for the passed 15 years reflect that - regardless of whether it is Christ or Scott in office. Also look at population growth, and I'm not talking about Latin immigration. Look at the domestic migration maps, it shows a huge exodus from northeast to FL. Very sad but very true.

On California: it is true that California has the largest economy of any state - around $1 Trillion. But that just reflects that California has 40 million people! It is equally true that China has the second largest economy in the world, but would you rather be middle class in China or Belgium? It's raw population. California, when adjusted for cost of living, has one of the highest poverty rates in the country (last time I saw was around 19.4 taking into account COL). It also (ironically) has one of the highest levels of income inequality. Think Silicon Valley vs the Central Valley. Also has the highest percentage of citizens who cannot afford to buy their own home.

The fact of the matter is, PA as a state has barely grown since the 1970s and labor/tax/legal policy has a lot to do with it. Just imagine Philadelphia with a great business climate. I long for the day.

I have cites for all of these just request individually and I will provide.

[Cro Burnham]

Also look at population growth, and I'm not talking about Latin impression. Look at the domestic migration maps, it shows a huge exodus from northeast to FL. Very sad but very true.

The fact of the matter is, PA as a state has barely grown since the 1970s and labor/tax/legal policy has a lot to do with it. Just imagine Philadelphia with a great business climate. I long for the day.

First, I wonder how much of the outflow from the NE to FL is in the form of retirees going for a warm retirement. That's not really an "economy thing".

Second, as much as I dislike irresponsibly restrictive business regulation, we also have to accept that what you describe about PA applies equally or worse to most other midwestern and northeastern states. These are the economically oldest and most mature parts of the country, as well as the densest demographically. There is a great deal of inertia, economically and culturally.

The sunbelt is still growing economically, still filling out. Much of what you worry about is inevitable,and I think eventually the sunbelt will reach a point of diminishing returns and settle into a relatively low growth mode like much of the North.

[summersm343]

I think we're getting a little off topic here guys. Let's keep it related to Philadelphia development.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by Plokoon11

It would be ashamed to see that power plant get demolished it is such a landmark while driving from the north on 95.

As I understand it, they have no intention of demolishing the major structures on the site.

[1487]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I think we're getting a little off topic here guys. Let's keep it related to Philadelphia development.

Thanks.

[1487]

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...ealth-system-picks-development-team.html

Foster is getting more work here it appears.

[Plokoon11]

^Maybe another 1000 footer jk.

[jsbrook]

Rodin development...

http://mobile.philly.com/columnists/?wss=/philly/columnists/inga_saffron/&id=288706591

Ugh...Inga is right on this one. I hope they can figure out something more appropriate. There is still time. Even if the present design moves forward, the actual building hopefully will not look as bad as the render.

[McBane]

No one made a stink when the new family court building design was unveiled even though it sits next to such icons like Love Park and City Hall. And that building is definitely much worse. I think this Rodin tower design is pretty decent and don't mind its contrasting design next to the Rodin. It's certainly much nicer than other projects that were allowed to go ahead without raising eyebrows. If the city is suddenly going to start vetting projects seriously, then bravo - but I don't this building deserves such scrutiny.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by Plokoon11

^Maybe another 1000 footer jk.

That would be one helluva hospital, wouldn't it?