Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[makr3trkr]

Originally Posted by officedweller

That may show the width of the super road, but that's not the alignment of it. It will cut diagonally across what is now Abbott St. shown in the 1st rendering.

Hence why I said it gives an idea of what it could look like.

Also, this is presented as an interim stage, and so could potentially be an interim alignment.

The final alignment will probably be tweaked again before all is said and done.

[officedweller]

It'll actually be somewhat narrow at Georgia, but have an restricted pattern of turns.

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

the presentation boards have now been posted >>

http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/currentplanning/fcflats/pdf/jun2012ViaductOpenHouseBoards.pdf

I will point out the 2 key ones that were not online till now and both show how much of a fuck up this whole thing will be >>

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=174625&page=115

Originally Posted by officedweller

This is from the 800 Griffiths Way CD-1 Rezoning report to be approved by City Council this week - The second plan shows the Georgia intersection at Pacific. Traffic on the grand Pacific Blvd funnelled up to Georgia Street, but a last minute connection to Expo Bld is provided via Griffiths Way. And it looks like there's a bike lane on that 5% grade.

Anyone else think that the new Georgia Street extension will take up land that was supposed to be used for the Georgia Steps?

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20120612/documents/p5.pdf


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
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http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=174625&page=116

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

http://www.franclarchitecture.com/work/rogers-arena-site-development


...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

It'll actually be somewhat narrow at Georgia, but have an restricted pattern of turns.

If the main flow of traffic inbound to downtown is directed to Georgia Street as is suggested by that diagram, then it will make it easier for traffic to make right turns onto the streets (such as Seymour) where that is currently prohibited from Dunsmuir.

[jsbertram]

Seattle
tis to laugh

they are replacing their earthquake-prone viaduct with a tunnel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaskan_Way_Viaduct

http://grist.org/cities/seattles-unbelievable-transportation-megaproject-fustercluck/

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/us/in-seattle-a-sinking-feeling-about-a-troubled-tunnel.html?_r=0

http://www.npr.org/2014/12/10/369777033/...t-broke-may-be-sinking-seattles-downtown


Vancouver should learn from Seattle's problems and not tunnel through the reclaimed false creek soil and spoils that have been dumped there for the last 125 years.

[a very long weekend]

wow, just read on pricetags about the hogan's alley neighborhood, here's a map from canadian geographic


one of the great things that would/could/should arise if/when the viaducts come down is that virtually all of these lots could be rebuilt.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by a very long weekend

wow, just read on pricetags about the hogan's alley neighborhood, here's a map from canadian geographic
[img]snip[/img]

one of the great things that would/could/should arise if/when the viaducts come down is that virtually all of these lots could be rebuilt.

You'd have a bit of a fight from the people east of Gore who have spent the last few years buying & fixing up their old houses and gentrifying the neighbourhood. Not likely they'd want their blocks to be razed for someone's pet retro-'urban renewal' project. That battle in the area was fought and lost in the 1970's, and its unlikely any politician today would want to attempt it again.

West of Gore is already something of a park. Remove the viaduct ramps, and no doubt the locals will fight to have those blocks rebuilt as more park space.

[officedweller]

I think the plan is to redevelop on both sides of Main Street
- which falls into the "be careful of what you wish for" category (but there will be a bigger park to the west).

What would be interesting is if the City subdivided the large blocks into,
say 3 or 4 parcels each, and sold the lots to DIFFERENT developers.
The projects depicted looks like a typical urban planning model, which would stick out like a sore thumb in Chinatown.



http://vancouver.ca/images/cov/content/viaducts.PNG

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by a very long weekend

wow, just read on pricetags about the hogan's alley neighborhood, here's a map from canadian geographic

one of the great things that would/could/should arise if/when the viaducts come down is that virtually all of these lots could be rebuilt.

Like most of the housing in that area in the Sixties, Hogans Alley was a complete slum. Only Geoff Meggs seems to feel a bizarre need to romanticize it.

[Vin]

What's so special about the new development with a few short boring condos? They come in a dime a dozen. I rather have the viaducts than another boring featureless quiet bedroom community.

[a very long weekend]

wow, office dweller, nice post! obviously i didn't mean to suggest that they'd rebuild hogan's alley (lol) rather that these lots would be reclaimed as the document OD posted.

second the idea that they need to break up development plans for those parcels, a huge mega project would take longer and risk an overdose of trademark vancouver architecture. i'd also add that they should consider the old train station/tech campus/hospital lands across the street in the design, considering, for instance, an office building on the easternmost lot of the project, a retail wall along prior, a new crosswalk/traffic light to connect to the hospital.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Like most of the housing in that area in the Sixties, Hogans Alley was a complete slum. Only Geoff Meggs seems to feel a bizarre need to romanticize it.

Huh? Meggs wants to rebuild it as part of the viaducts plan. That is, if one believes like you do, that somehow one councilor runs the whole city.

[officedweller]

Of interest from Toronto

Proposed development aims to revitalize unused ‘no-go’ zone below Gardiner Expressway
Natalie Alcoba | February 18, 2015 | Last Updated: Feb 19 10:05 AM ET

A new condo and retail development in Toronto’s southern core aims to render the Gardiner Expressway irrelevant by breathing new life into unused, forgotten space below.

The project, on a plot of land owned by Loblaw Properties Ltd. at Lakeshore and Bathurst, centres around an art deco building that served as the grocery giant’s main operation centre until the 1970s.

The proposal is to dismantle the existing heritage building and reconstruct it using salvaged components of the same site, in order to house a new Loblaws. Another four storeys will be added to the structure for commercial uses.

Two condo towers, 40 and 44 storeys, would be built next door, with retail on the ground floor, while a courtyard and retail entrance would spring up under the Gardiner, said Peter Clewes, the architect behind the design.

“I think [it] is kind of cool, to be building under the Gardiner,” said Mr. Clewes on Wednesday, after the Toronto East York Community Council gave the project a preliminary green light.

The plan is to light up the under belly of the Gardiner and install public art, thus reclaiming space that has previously been a “no-go” zone, said local Councillor Joe Cressy.
...

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/02/18/...ardiner-expressway-set-to-go-to-council/

See also:

Toronto's Gardiner Expressway is disappearing into the city
MARCUS GEE
The Globe and Mail

Published Wednesday, Feb. 18 2015, 10:02 PM EST
Last updated Thursday, Feb. 19 2015, 8:41 AM EST

For decades, the Gardiner Expressway was considered a blot on the landscape and an unbridgeable barrier between the city and its neglected waterfront.

But in the past few years, something remarkable has happened: the Gardiner has begun to disappear. The thickets of tall buildings that have been shooting up on either side have obscured it from view from many vantage points, making the aging grey structure much less of a visible barrier and disproving the idea that it prevents development near the waterfront.

Even more interesting than what has been happening around and above the Gardiner is what has been happening under it. With buildings rising within metres of the expressway, architects and developers have started to make creative use of what was once some of the most barren and forbidding space in the city.

...

For decades, parking lots and vacant land filled much of the space between Union Station and the harbour. The only way to spark development of that land and open up the waterfront to the city, many argued, was to tear down the expressway.

That seems unnecessary now. A whole new district, the South Core, is rising south of Union. Office buildings and condo towers reach for the sky. The streets below are starting to fill up with pedestrians, giving the area a bustling urban feel. The pace of redevelopment on the water’s edge is picking up.

It’s still not much fun to cross the Lakeshore under the Gardiner on foot. But projects like the Fort York centre and the Bathurst-Lakeshore buildings show that the underside of an elevated road need not be a no-go zone. Just look at how the designers of Underpass Park near the Don River filled the blank areas under and beside the Eastern Avenue, Adelaide and Richmond overpasses with playgrounds, basketball courts and other public space.

As development around the Gardiner accelerates, and hundreds of millions of dollars in repairs to the roadway proceed, the city should be encouraging new ways to use the space underneath it.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toro...appearing-into-the-city/article23067580/

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Huh? Meggs wants to rebuild it as part of the viaducts plan. That is, if one believes like you do, that somehow one councilor runs the whole city.

Naturally he doesn't run city council, but his vision seems to appeal to the mindset of many Vancouverites
who feel "we must do this in order to be that green, livable city we dream of."
What they do not fully take into account is that the viaducts tie into a 'nexus' of downtown traffic, and downtain Vancouver Streets like Georgia are irrevocably integrated given the route to the LGB and the crossing. This, of course is used largely for North Shore, largely West Van commutes from CBD, central or western city regions, as for them, Ironworkers may be too far.
If researched, perhaps traffic numbers would validate this.
Similarly, there are demand periods when drivers are exiting downtown to gain access to Highway One East. This requires some type of capacity absorption infrastructure. Will First Avenue still suffice, and will there be no increase in accidents involving vehicles on residential streets? I dunno. (really). Let George design it.
Anyway, all of this is what Geoff Meggs, and his fellow visionaries, are forgetting, even ignoring.
They're focusing on nice green parks where the Viaducts were, walkways, public spaces, and lots and lots of beautiful buildings.
I'd be interested to see how the traffic flows down there when all is said, redesigned, and done.

[mukmuk64]

Originally Posted by Vin

What's so special about the new development with a few short boring condos? They come in a dime a dozen. I rather have the viaducts than another boring featureless quiet bedroom community.

You'd choose a a road over a neighbourhood that could house hundreds of people and provide opportunities for many new retail businesses? That's just baffling to me.

[logan5]

A ryan Reynolds movie is going to shut down the Georgia Viaduct for quite a few days in April. Hopefully this will finally convince people that we don'tn need them.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by logan5

A ryan Reynolds movie is going to shut down the Georgia Viaduct for quite a few days in April. Hopefully this will finally convince people that we don'tn need them.

Or the other way round....

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by logan5

A ryan Reynolds movie is going to shut down the Georgia Viaduct for quite a few days in April. Hopefully this will finally convince people that we don'tn need them.

Originally Posted by Vin

Or the other way round....

Good on you, Vin. I agree, and that's what I hope for.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by logan5

A ryan Reynolds movie is going to shut down the Georgia Viaduct for quite a few days in April. Hopefully this will finally convince people that we don'tn need them.

How perfect for the city. They are essentially getting paid to test the closing of the viaducts.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by csbvan

How perfect for the city. They are essentially getting paid to test the closing of the viaducts.

Agreed. This is perfect. We can see what happens during normal work days as opposed to under Olympics scenario when not much was normal. They should close Dunsmuir side too to complete the test.

If things backfire we can tar and feather both Gregor and Ryan and chase them out of town

[officedweller]

Apparently they will reopen 1 lane at 3:00pm on each of the closure days forn afternoon rush hour traffic.

I wonder how much of a counter-commute load it carries?