Winnipeg Construction VIII - Page 259

esquire · #**5161** Posted **Jan 2, 2015, 7:31 PM**

Damn.

1ajs · #**5162** Posted **Jan 2, 2015, 7:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ How have they burned bridges with developers?

they have seized stuff back from small time developers who paid there bills... to hand it over to big time guys... example on donaled between the capital and the masonic temple there was a house storefront building a local guy had gotten off cv who started to make something of it when cv outa the blue seized it back for the credit union plazza building..... there several other examples of them coming along saying here have this then coming back and say take a hike bye

Simplicity · #**5163** Posted **Jan 2, 2015, 7:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ajs

they have seized stuff back from small time developers who paid there bills... to hand it over to big time guys... example on donaled between the capital and the masonic temple there was a house storefront building a local guy had gotten off cv who started to make something of it when cv outa the blue seized it back for the credit union plazza building..... there several other examples of them coming along saying here have this then coming back and say take a hike bye

Yeah, that's a good example.

And where things like the Main Street strip are concerned, there's no level of talent required to acquire a pile of vacant bricks and sticks, tear it down, and hand it off to the provincial health authority who then build a nondescript fortress. The free press was falling all over themselves to credit McGowan with that brilliance, but those moves have led to zero follow-on development and they haven't 'improved' anything. This isn't planning and development; it's just throwing money at something.

Thank god the Downtown Biz, Jason Syvixay, and Stefano Grande are there to let us know just how much great work has been done or we'd never even know it!

Wigglez · #**5164** Posted **Jan 2, 2015, 7:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ajs

they have seized stuff back from small time developers who paid there bills... to hand it over to big time guys... example on donaled between the capital and the masonic temple there was a house storefront building a local guy had gotten off cv who started to make something of it when cv outa the blue seized it back for the credit union plazza building..... there several other examples of them coming along saying here have this then coming back and say take a hike bye

I suppose "long term planning" has always been a myth to those at CV... Wow...

esquire · #**5165** Posted **Jan 2, 2015, 8:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplicity

This isn't planning and development; it's just throwing money at something.

Ugh, the Main Street fiasco brought the grassroots resurgence of that strip to a dead stop.

As for the incident 1ajs mentioned, the guy who owned that building ran Rakowski Wrecking as I recall... he was fixing up the building in question to lease out the bottom and live upstairs. I thought he voluntarily sold the place when CV was assembling land... did they actually force him out? It's been at least a decade so my recollection is a little foggy.

1ajs · #**5166** Posted **Jan 2, 2015, 8:55 PM**

he bought it off them and they came along and pushed him out there was articals in the paper about it i remember reading... when i was a kid in the north end they had a breakfast program and i would sit there reading the paper whil e having cinimin toast

esquire · #**5167** Posted **Jan 2, 2015, 9:24 PM**

^ Centreventure had a breakfast program?!? Well, at least you got newspapers and cinnamon toast out of the deal

1ajs · #**5168** Posted **Jan 2, 2015, 10:36 PM**

no not cv the wsd1 did at issac newton

Simplicity · #**5169** Posted **Jan 2, 2015, 10:54 PM**

CV probably put a caveat on the transfer whereby development needed to be complete by a certain date. Usually the number is 2 years with CV's right to extend where they see fit. It's understood that 2 years is a very short period in the development world given that the city is your slowest moving wheel, but it's used as a way to at least get an update from the developer in exchange for a progress report that at least shows, y'know, progress.

In any case, the likely scenario here was that the existing ownership was moving slowly, CV saw an opportunity, and pushed him out. But that's bad business. Especially when you have a guy with some cash behind him. The old adage applies here: good, fast, or cheap; pick two. Since there's no obviously no 'hot' market to tap here, why not take the more likely-to-succeed granular development over time instead of these ridiculous mega-projects that never succeed and always cost the city money...

Winnipeg Architect · #**5170** Posted **Jan 2, 2015, 11:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I won't provide specific examples in the interest of keeping people's business quiet, but many promises over many years requiring significant investment from developers that were never seriously being considered, anyway. The back-room RFP steering, promises of funding that never materialized, promised sales of property to developers at certain values only to change the expected price at the last minute rendering the project unfeasible and the entire investment sunk. Taking years and years to pay out TIF money well past project benchmarks.

Many, many reasons. And I could go on. Ross didn't walk the plank for nothing. Don't believe what the newspapers write about Ross' glory years. Without Katz, Sheegl, Thorgrimson, and the likely soon-to-be relieved Joshi, the fiefdom crumbled. All of their old contacts are now anathema. Having to attract other developers back to the table to continue the mandate wasn't happening with a guy whose arrogance had offended nearly every property owner in downtown in his time.

I have been dealing with them since 2010.

Man................"your preaching the choir"

trueviking · #**5171** Posted **Jan 3, 2015, 1:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I won't provide specific examples in the interest of keeping people's business quiet, but many promises over many years requiring significant investment from developers that were never seriously being considered, anyway. The back-room RFP steering, promises of funding that never materialized, promised sales of property to developers at certain values only to change the expected price at the last minute rendering the project unfeasible and the entire investment sunk. Taking years and years to pay out TIF money well past project benchmarks.
.

i have heard similar things.

i also know of an architect who worked for a year with a charitable organization who wanted to find a new home. He walked them through the process, doing programming, schematic design and budgeting so they could be confident as they proceeded. He was being paid, but of course nothing to cover his cost, as he wanted to be charitable and knew that if it became a reality he would be able to recuperate his losses.

The project got to the point where the board voted to build a new building based on the work done. When they approached CV to purchase the site, being inexperienced in development, were easily pushed to then interview three architects for the project and it was given to a different architect.

it came to light a while later that the architect who won was previously promised whatever project happened on that site and had been shopping the same design to a government organization a year earlier.

trueviking · #**5172** Posted **Jan 3, 2015, 1:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Honestly, I don't know her from Eve, but the existing human resource infrastructure at CV - including Ross who's now gone - had burned every bridge with nearly every developer in the city outside of Longboat and Qualico. To me, while strange given the likely outcome of the upcoming election, her political affiliation should be meaningless. We just need people around there who don't have 15 years of animosity and mistrust behind them.

And I say that genuinely. This new program CV has going for the surface lot subsidy is just government going through the motions given that almost nobody who owns property in the downtown or is a capable developer will have anything to do with the organization in its current form.

But, I am holding out hope...

She seems like a trustworthy and intelligent person. I like the appointment. She has a big job ahead and as you say, the City will likely have to eat things like the debt from the Carlton Hotel before things can move forward. I like her in this position. Its a refreshing change.

I think the new Mayor will be careful that Longboat doesnt become his Shindico....

I actually have a developer who thinks the new incentive plan works better for them than the previous one did....at least that's their initial take after running the preliminary numbers....we will see where it goes, i guess.

Simplicity · #**5173** Posted **Jan 3, 2015, 2:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

She seems like a trustworthy and intelligent person. I like the appointment. She has a big job ahead and as you say, the City will likely have to eat things like the debt from the Carlton Hotel before things can move forward. I like her in this position. Its a refreshing change.

I think the new Mayor will be careful that Longboat doesnt become his Shindico....

I actually have a developer who thinks the new incentive plan works better for them than the previous one did....at least that's their initial take after running the preliminary numbers....we will see where it goes, i guess.

I'll keep an open mind where it comes to her and I've heard good things, but I've never personally had any dealings with her.

I'd be curious as to the details on that project you speak of. It's really dependent on the land costs. You really can't be buying the land and expecting to make a go of it. It has to be one of those scenarios where the land was bought for a song and held because the design review guidelines within the Downtown Zoning By-Law make building feasible rentals very difficult without it being a retrofit. Even then, the expected rents have to be quite high.

An approach I hope people are using is to appeal the property taxes on the existing lot in hopes of driving a greater incremental return, but I really don't like the way the new program is being administered. I realize it's because CV is broke, but if you're looking for any actual success out of this program, the city is going to have to shoulder some of the risk. The ongoing TIF revenues are only as valuable as the net income of the property. If the building goes up and the developer sees expected vacancies of somewhere between 8-10% - a number that's realistic given the required rents of the build cost - the developer still has to pay the mortgage, they're just paying a little less property tax than they otherwise would have. What CV used to do is present-value that expected TIF value and give it to you upfront as a means for mitigating your risk right off the hop. And that was attractive to people. But I have little idea as to why somebody would step out on a limb for the city's benefit in an area few people want to finance only to have the city give you a break that only decreases the more you need it...

1ajs · #**5174** Posted **Jan 8, 2015, 12:22 AM**

so the disaster that is the wrha centre on main st's heating and cooling system froze and burst

hows that even happen?
artical about it and the other health acces centre that closed from burst pipes as well
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/w...-287752271.html?cx_navSource=d-more-news

1ajs · #**5175** Posted **Jan 9, 2015, 12:23 AM**

1ajs · #**5176** Posted **Jan 9, 2015, 12:53 AM**

o wow.............

Mayor wants status update from CentreVenture after audit of city real estate deals

CTV Winnipeg
Published Thursday, January 8, 2015 5:37PM CST
Last Updated Thursday, January 8, 2015 5:42PM CST
Mayor Brian Bowman wants to put the city’s development wing under the microscope.
Bowman is asking CentreVenture to present a status update to his executive policy committee on its mandate.
The mayor said EPC wants to make sure CentreVenture is following all processes for land and real estate transactions following an audit of city’s real estate deals.
The audit contained 19 recommendations.
The update is expected within 30 days.

Read more: http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/mayor-wants-s...eal-estate-deals-1.2179834#ixzz3OHUYtBMJ

Winnipeg Architect · #**5177** Posted **Jan 9, 2015, 1:08 AM**

There should be a separate forum for Centre Venture.

They have no accountability.

They do whatever the Chipman's want.

They listen to no one.

They should be shut down.

Just from 4.5 years of direct personal experience.

Simplicity · #**5178** Posted **Jan 9, 2015, 1:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ajs

o wow.............

Mayor wants status update from CentreVenture after audit of city real estate deals

CTV Winnipeg
Published Thursday, January 8, 2015 5:37PM CST
Last Updated Thursday, January 8, 2015 5:42PM CST
Mayor Brian Bowman wants to put the city’s development wing under the microscope.
Bowman is asking CentreVenture to present a status update to his executive policy committee on its mandate.
The mayor said EPC wants to make sure CentreVenture is following all processes for land and real estate transactions following an audit of city’s real estate deals.
The audit contained 19 recommendations.
The update is expected within 30 days.

Read more: http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/mayor-wants-s...eal-estate-deals-1.2179834#ixzz3OHUYtBMJ

I wonder if this is the first step towards relieving CV of its insurmountable debt in exchange for the head of a couple more long-time employees...

Kris22 · #**5179** Posted **Jan 9, 2015, 4:35 AM**

Great photo of Alt 1ajs, thanks

Boreal · #**5180** Posted **Jan 9, 2015, 5:51 AM**

I know a lot of people here don't care for the Alt building, and those are the same people who admittedly have far more design and urban cred then I could ever dare to suggest I possess - but I kinda like the structure. It's no Chrysler Building, but I think it's nice enough.