Canada's Panamerica Identity

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Quebec may be on the sketchy side, but a comparison to North Korea seems to go too far!

I was actually wondering, speaking of Korea...

Would you guys, with your healthcare-centric definition of culture, consider that 1970s FRG and 1970s DRG (a.k.a. W and E Germany) were culturally extremely different...? Or would you rather say "culturally similar even though currently (at the time...) under very different economic/political systems"?

[harls]

Originally Posted by lio45

Well, it's still statistically unlikely to happen... (I know that, I have a large sample to draw from...) but the mere fact that it *did* happen was already quite surprising. How often and where do you cross?

The crossing in this case was Beecher Falls, the one where all the guys are familiar with me. It's also possible that customs officers won't dare take the slightest step outside the boundaries of their strict duty (which among other things implies speaking English) unless they're familiar with their "client".

I grew up one mile from the border, so it happened a lot.

I remember I tried to cross one time at a small border crossing alone, thinking I'd save some time (the one near Napierville, east of the 15..) the guy was REALLY out to get me.. it was January 2002 and I guess I should have asked for it.. Foreign sounding dude, small port of entry.. sheesh..

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

I was actually wondering, speaking of Korea...

Would you guys, with your healthcare-centric definition of culture, consider that 1970s FRG and 1970s DRG (a.k.a. W and E Germany) were culturally extremely different...? Or would you rather say "culturally similar even though currently (at the time...) under very different economic/political systems"?

Are we familiar enough with the cultures of the former East and West Germany to really know? I doubt that "extremely different" would apply, but decades of separate cultural development must have had an impact.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

give me a break. I have lived in Quebec, Ontario, Alberta and BC. The differences are there. No doubt, and Quebec is most different of the bunch. But the similarities are massive, and make no mistake, the east-west similarities are greater for the most part than this illusory north-south axis, the obvious shared characteristics of the hinterlands aside.

Winnipeg is much more like Toronto than Minneapolis.

Yeah, for all Toronto's built-form similarities to other cities like Chicago/London/Brooklyn, the city where I felt the most "whoa, this feels like Toronto" vibe was Montreal. Vancouver looked like a totally different planet environmentally but the people there felt culturally like GTA residents for the most part.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

Ironically, a lot of the "language doesn't matter" crowd, who say they'd feel at home in French-only Chicoutimi (even if they are unilingual Anglo) would feel appalled at the sight of moderate amounts of Mandarin in Richmond, BC. Regardless of the fact that most of those Mandarin speakers would support Canadian universal health care.

Language doesn't matter if it's the right kind of language, spoken by the right kind of people...

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that language "in general" doesn't matter. There's a big difference between Canada's own domestic languages of French and English as opposed to foreign languages. Even unilingual anglo-Canadians are very familiar with French and it is nothing new or foreign. French is a required subject starting in elementary and is with us in varying capacities throughout life. Yes there are many Canadians, particularly in large urban areas, whose first language is something else. But this is a fairly recent phenomenon mainly in small pockets and consist of a wide variety of different languages. French and English have been widespread since the beginning.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by harls

Haven't been there in a while, but the steak is still apparently awesome.

My best experience -

Bartender - "that'll be 2 bucks."

me - "um..Canadian or American?"

Bartender - "whatever. cooler is right there, help yourself."

Too bad the border closed early.. but it was a good thing if you knew the guy working that night and he didn't care about the two-four you smuggled back.

There are quite a few epic after hour crossing the border stories out there! Sadly in this post 9-11 world we now live in, you would likely have a maverick missile up your ass if you tried that now.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

There are quite a few epic after hour crossing the border stories out there! Sadly in this post 9-11 world we now live in, you would likely have a maverick missile up your ass if you tried that now.

I want to hear some stories!

[yaletown_fella]

Originally Posted by niwell

What are you talking about? I have been to Main and Gerrard countless times and it looks nothing like Detroit. I'm not sure if this was intended to be a slight on the neighbourhood as being rundown or not but the housing vernacular and storefront layout is completely different. No vacant lots really either. Also, Main and Gerrard has some sweet 1890s era row houses from when it was an independent village.

Unless you mean similar in this sense (which I don't find particularly similar):

http://goo.gl/maps/KpNcz

http://goo.gl/maps/dyVvf


Also, said row houses: http://goo.gl/maps/KcLc0

Im talking about the runned down apartment houses northwest of Main and Gerrard.

The area south of Main and Gerrard is gorgeous.

[Dr Nevergold]

Re: healthcare, it is one of my most important public issues since I've viewed the hideous American system my entire life and disagree with it so much.

As an expat to be, I'll try and summarize this. Health care doesn't make Canada what it is, health care isn't my purpose for moving northward (I view it as an invaluable side benefit), but its worth pointing out because a country that is smaller (in terms of tax base) and technically has less financial means (in a collective sense) achieved something that the 800 lbs gorilla next door refuses to do. There is merit in pointing out a nation that pounds its chest as always being the freest, best place on Earth (the United States) often doesn't seem like it when basic needs like this go unmet. It also represents that the United States has a lot of wealth held in hands that don't often let that wealth out for the civic good, while this would be unacceptable in Canada. This does say something about the people, indirectly.

While healthcare doesn't make Canadian culture, it is something to be proud of and to not push down too far on the scale of importance. If the US ever did implement truly universal health coverage, it'd make it less relevant for comparisons between the two nations, but there's novelty in Canada being able to do something its considerably larger economic neighbor can't (and after using an Obamacare policy for this past year I can tell you Obamacare is NOT universal health coverage in any way, shape, form. It is far different than most people realized, these private plans are still not highly regulated and they often don't pay out benefits their own formulary says they cover. Without this regulation, the United States still has a faulty, very unreliable health care system leaving immense costs to patients who usually can't afford it). It does represent a difference in culture, because in order to do something so different on such an important public issue means there's obviously a difference in social culture and what is acceptable in society or what isn't. It does say something about the people at the end of the day.

Canada is still slightly more aligned with European countries than the United States on many important issues. Public and civic issues do have importance even if they don't reveal everything about a society or culture or nationality.

[1overcosc]

For all their similarities, the politics in Canada & the USA are quite different. As Dr. Nevergold says, the health care difference is a result of that political difference.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

For all their similarities, the politics in Canada & the USA are quite different. As Dr. Nevergold says, the health care difference is a result of that political difference.

Yep, most of the Democratic Party policies are to the right of the Canadian Conservative Party.
That is just the way it is.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

There are quite a few epic after hour crossing the border stories out there! Sadly in this post 9-11 world we now live in, you would likely have a maverick missile up your ass if you tried that now.

I guess I got lucky then, I once crossed the border into by myself in Niagara Falls, NY after midnight, and I was wearing a Toronto Maple Leafs hat. The border officer on duty threatened to confiscate my hat. Turned out he was a Sabres fan who was just joking around.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

For all their similarities, the politics in Canada & the USA are quite different. As Dr. Nevergold says, the health care difference is a result of that political difference.

For the last few years especially the governments haven't been that far apart on a left-right spectrum in a global context or even a Western World context in which developed countries currently have socialist governments.

[lio45]

Going back to architectural comparisons a little bit (I think it's the right thread) because I just saw two very fresh SSP pictures almost back to back which really reminded me how similar the residential built form of the land of free healthcare can be to the residential built form of the land of private healthcare.

Those two views both look like they could be Anywhere, USA and Anywhere, Canada to me (at least at first sight and roughly speaking).

I'd give pic credits to the two SSP users who took these pics but not right now, in order to not spoil any guesses from people who want to try...

[kwoldtimer]

I will hazard a guess that the first one is in the USA or, if it's Canada, then east of Ontario.

I can't say why, but the second one feels to me like Canada.

But I probably have them reversed!

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I will hazard a guess that the first one is in the USA or, if it's Canada, then east of Ontario.

I can't say why, but the second one feels to me like Canada.

But I probably have them reversed!

I feel the same.

I think it's the clapboard's color that makes me think of that. Not sure why

[Dr Nevergold]

Originally Posted by lio45

For the last few years especially the governments haven't been that far apart on a left-right spectrum in a global context or even a Western World context in which developed countries currently have socialist governments.

When it comes to global trade and finance, you're right. Even social democratic countries like Sweden are a part of the global trade and finance system. China is still officially communist on paper, but its economics is now part of that system. China and the USA are still very different.

Global trade and finance is 1 political/civic issue out of thousands. Taking a holistic view, Canada has a lot of differences with the USA. It is also a fair statement to say that no two major countries probably share as much other than the USA and Canada. Even Quebecois culture is tied with Louisiana and the acadians that moved around. Louisiana has melted into greater American culture, but its still a very different state than any other in the US, including the south in general. The cuisine in south central Louisiana and the dialect of English now spoken is different from anywhere else. Before hispanics started moving in the south, Louisiana was the only place anywhere south of Washington DC with majority catholic communities. Louisiana as a state still follows civic code and not English common law and the central south is the first part of the USA that wants to separate (at surprisingly high levels still to this day). So even the Quebec issues are mirrored in the USA on a milder level, and have evolved into very different circumstances.

With Canada and the US, there has been two distinct mosaic of cultures grow from a united history that have centuries of distinct identities now.

It is what it is, you can respect both the similarities and differences and respect both at the same time. Its not an either/or situation. If there were zero differences between these two countries, I'd have zero reason to move to Canada for example.

[shappy]

I agree: first is US and second is Canadian. The first is more meticulous, more refined (proud?), and the design of the one on the end is pretty unusual for a middle class neighbourhood in Canada. The second is more comfortable, lived-in (uglier? ha), haphazard, relaxed...

It's the architecture itself but also the landscaping and overall context that gives it away in this particular example, I think.

[Dr Nevergold]

I think two major differences with the US and Canada is that in the US there is visibly more difference between wealth and poor. The US has a wealthier class (albeit still a small percentage overall), yet the US has far more people in actual numbers and percent that literally have nothing at all.

This is one of the most disappointing things about the United States, while you have beautiful communities of extreme wealth, there are even more communities with absolutely nothing. I'm talking about walking in the streets with barely shoes on your feet dirt poor. Its all over appalachia, its all over the delta region, its all over the inner cities in Detroit, Buffalo, even Chicago or New York have massive poverty still to this day even if Manhattan is elite central. It doesn't take much effort to tour the Bronx or Chicago's south side an get outside that elite wealth zone.

Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver have poor areas, but there is no parallel in Canada to the extent you see in the USA.

This is a distinct and easily visualized difference between the two nations. Windsor and Detroit are great examples side by side. Windsor is by no means a rich city, but it is more equalized and livable than its neighbor. Canada does absolutely spread the wealth around ever so slightly more than America. You see it in the cities and feel it in their bones. Its something I love about Canada and hope to see continued.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold

Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver have poor areas, but there is no parallel in Canada to the extent you see in the USA.

Not to pick nits, but to that assertion I say oh yes there is. Some (but just to be clear, not all or even most) reserves fit that bill. It may be largely invisible to people who live in the 3 or 4 largest Canadian cities, but many indigenous people in Canada have it pretty rough even by US standards.