Winnipeg Construction VIII

[Simplicity]

Good article by TV today about the code issues we've all been hashing out.

I've been hearing things here and there about having to get energy consultants involved, but it's still the slow time of year, so everybody's been more or less hibernating. Anybody have experiences with one or other commentary on the usage/adherence thereof?

Interested to know...

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/columnists/energy-efficiency-not-cheap-286988641.html

[EastK]

What would be the size base where these new rules would take effect? The article says it will not effect small wood framed projects but does not indicate how small. Are only single family homes left out or is it based on square footage?

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by EastK

What would be the size base where these new rules would take effect? The article says it will not effect small wood framed projects but does not indicate how small. Are only single family homes left out or is it based on square footage?

It currently doesn't affect anything in Part 9 which is anything 3-storeys (and under), and 600m2 or less.

Single-family is not included.

[Winnipeg Architect]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

It currently doesn't affect anything in Part 9 which is anything 3-storeys (and under), and 600m2 or less.

Single-family is not included.

600m2 footprint of the building maximum. Up to 3 stories.

[Bdog]

Angela Mathieson named CEO and President of CentreVenture today.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Winnipeg Architect

600m2 footprint of the building maximum. Up to 3 stories.

Thanks for the clarification

[Winnipeg Architect]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Thanks for the clarification

No sweat.

I built a 12,000 SQF plate for a 24 unit apartment and added a 2 hour fire wall with fire doors in the middle in 2011 so I would not have to hire an architect.

It may have cost more but was a lot less hassle without an architect.

Worth every penny.

There are ways around things if you put your mind to it.

This will happen with the retarded energy code too!

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by Winnipeg Architect

No sweat.

I built a 12,000 SQF plate for a 24 unit apartment and added a 2 hour fire wall with fire doors in the middle in 2011 so I would not have to hire an architect.

It may have cost more but was a lot less hassle without an architect.

Worth every penny.

There are ways around things if you put your mind to it.

This will happen with the retarded energy code too!

What does the 2 hour fire rating on your main floor of the Waterfront project have to do with hiring an architect?

Do you have to fence your parking lot on Argyle or has the urban planning department given you a pass on that requirement?

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Labroco

What does the 2 hour fire rating on your main floor of the Waterfront project have to do with hiring an architect?

Do you have to fence your parking lot on Argyle or has the urban planning department given you a pass on that requirement?

You don't need an architect in Part 9, you only need a structural engineer to sign off. You also don't need stamped mechanical or electrical drawings.

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

You don't need an architect in Part 9, you only need a structural engineer to sign off. You also don't need stamped mechanical or electrical drawings.

What about your building permits and the planning department? How long did it take you to secure them on the project and were the plumbing / electrical inspectors reasonable when onsite?

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Labroco

What about your building permits and the planning department? How long did it take you to secure them on the project and were the plumbing / electrical inspectors reasonable when onsite?

I can't speak for his project, but generally a permit right now is about 4-6mths. That's assuming the permit tech and plans examiner you're assigned know what they're doing, which they almost never do. They try to avoid learning the nuance of anything by trying to enforce everything, all the time even it's not applicable.

As for inspectors, they're your worst enemy. One day to the next they decide what's code and what isn't and how they intend to interpret and enforce it.

I can say without hesitation that the planning and permits department within the City of Winnipeg is your biggest hurdle with any development. The incompetence and laziness - top to bottom - is something you can only see to believe. I remember at one point the chief zoning officer bemoaning to me that there was just nothing she could do or say that would convince her charges to stop abusing sick time and pick up the phone when they were there. She had tried too many times already...

[Winnipeg Architect]

Originally Posted by Labroco

What does the 2 hour fire rating on your main floor of the Waterfront project have to do with hiring an architect?

Do you have to fence your parking lot on Argyle or has the urban planning department given you a pass on that requirement?

I do not know what you are talking about.

[Winnipeg Architect]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I can't speak for his project, but generally a permit right now is about 4-6mths. That's assuming the permit tech and plans examiner you're assigned know what they're doing, which they almost never do. They try to avoid learning the nuance of anything by trying to enforce everything, all the time even it's not applicable.

As for inspectors, they're your worst enemy. One day to the next they decide what's code and what isn't and how they intend to interpret and enforce it.

I can say without hesitation that the planning and permits department within the City of Winnipeg is your biggest hurdle with any development. The incompetence and laziness - top to bottom - is something you can only see to believe. I remember at one point the chief zoning officer bemoaning to me that there was just nothing she could do or say that would convince her charges to stop abusing sick time and pick up the phone when they were there. She had tried too many times already...

That is true. They are killing development here. I will not build another thing in Winnipeg. They are rotten to everyone. Too much BS. My last permit took 1 year and the city sent me a reg letter that they will sue me because I built the structure without a permit. It was their fault as they delayed the process.

Letter from my legal council to the city and no court. I got permit the next day. They lost my drawings. They also lost my drawings in 2014 as well. I printed them again at no cost to city.

Every inspector has a different interpretation of the code. That is true. I have been doing this for over 25 years and I knew all of the inspectors but most are retired now with a new crop of M & E and Building inspectors coming on board. The plan examiners are mostly new as well the past few years and are CET's and EIT's. City cannot attract Engineers anymore. I knew Barry Thorgrimson since 1995 and met with him last July to speak about the shit show at PP & D. This is no secret that PP & D is a joke. He mentioned he may retire after the new mayor took office. They let Shindico build the new Taylor Fire Hall on a public right of way. How could that happen?
It was the land between the hall and Scoop & Weigh. The land there now is owned by the Scoop & Weigh and the city and Shindico want to use it for their own purpose now. This is bad.


I am independently wealthy now and I will let others suffer now like I have.

The construction industry used to be fun, but nowadays is it terrible.

[drew]

If you build buildings over 600m^2, your consultants do the inspections, not the City.

You just have to get through the plans examination process. However, once you are on their good side with the relative discipline (A/S/M/E) that's a breeze. Hiring the right consultants is very important with developments. You generally get what you pay for.

Part 9 and residential inspections completed by the City are a complete crap shoot, and wildly inconsistent. Very frustrating process to go through, as common sense generally does not prevail.

Also, for Part 9 projects, if a developer tries to cut corners, or "pull the wool over their eyes" - good night to you, sir. You will be bent over and raked thru the coals. Somewhat deservedly so, but wow, look out.

We are working on one now, helping out a developer to close off a file with the City. He hired cheap consultants and tried to dig in his heels with the City after they found obvious and glaring mistakes with what he was building. Two years and several thousands of dollars of legal costs, our costs, and he won't be done till later this fall. Crazy.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I can't speak for his project, but generally a permit right now is about 4-6mths. That's assuming the permit tech and plans examiner you're assigned know what they're doing, which they almost never do. They try to avoid learning the nuance of anything by trying to enforce everything, all the time even it's not applicable.

As for inspectors, they're your worst enemy. One day to the next they decide what's code and what isn't and how they intend to interpret and enforce it.

I can say without hesitation that the planning and permits department within the City of Winnipeg is your biggest hurdle with any development. The incompetence and laziness - top to bottom - is something you can only see to believe. I remember at one point the chief zoning officer bemoaning to me that there was just nothing she could do or say that would convince her charges to stop abusing sick time and pick up the phone when they were there. She had tried too many times already...

It's definitely gotten worse in the past few years. Almost no consistency in how "rules" are applied, and how requirements are interpreted. The turnover (at zoning and permits at least) seems to be at an all time high - each replacement enforcing their interpretation of the code more stringently than the last. A "missing" document (read: lost) will shut down your application until further notice. Even if you can get them a new copy within a few hours, you'll probably be back to the bottom of the pile. It's amazing that what literally takes 2 to 4 weeks in most other major cities in this country, will take 4 to 6 months here.

If PP&D is serious about infill, increased densities, mixed-use, etc., they'd be wise to look internally at what they can do to make the process easier. As if councillor meddling, nimbyism, and market forces weren't challenging enough...

[1ajs]

i keep hearing horor storries about the inspecter outside the city in the red river vally region and im told winnipegs got it easy.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by drew

If you build buildings over 600m^2, your consultants do the inspections, not the City.

You just have to get through the plans examination process. However, once you are on their good side with the relative discipline (A/S/M/E) that's a breeze. Hiring the right consultants is very important with developments. You generally get what you pay for.

Part 9 and residential inspections completed by the City are a complete crap shoot, and wildly inconsistent. Very frustrating process to go through, as common sense generally does not prevail.

Also, for Part 9 projects, if a developer tries to cut corners, or "pull the wool over their eyes" - good night to you, sir. You will be bent over and raked thru the coals. Somewhat deservedly so, but wow, look out.

We are working on one now, helping out a developer to close off a file with the City. He hired cheap consultants and tried to dig in his heels with the City after they found obvious and glaring mistakes with what he was building. Two years and several thousands of dollars of legal costs, our costs, and he won't be done till later this fall. Crazy.

Yeah, in Part 3 you're into your consultants, but that doesn't apply for fire-rating or inspection. That's the city. And they're the worst of all.

And I don't think 'cheap' consultants are the issue; I think inexperienced ones are. Bill Hanuschak is one of the cheaper structural engineers you can find and he's also probably the most experienced. The cost comes from carrying lots of overhead. I've had nightmare scenarios unfold with Stantec and I've had some of my most valuable experiences happen with one-man shows who bill as such. I actually find that the bigger, more expensive firms tend to give me the most problems because they're often billing me for a senior and having a junior do the work with little oversight. And truthfully, I find the techs more practically knowledgeable than the professional in most cases! Just an observation...

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Bdog

It's definitely gotten worse in the past few years. Almost no consistency in how "rules" are applied, and how requirements are interpreted. The turnover (at zoning and permits at least) seems to be at an all time high - each replacement enforcing their interpretation of the code more stringently than the last. A "missing" document (read: lost) will shut down your application until further notice. Even if you can get them a new copy within a few hours, you'll probably be back to the bottom of the pile. It's amazing that what literally takes 2 to 4 weeks in most other major cities in this country, will take 4 to 6 months here.

If PP&D is serious about infill, increased densities, mixed-use, etc., they'd be wise to look internally at what they can do to make the process easier. As if councillor meddling, nimbyism, and market forces weren't challenging enough...

Bang on.

The other one I just bang my head against the desk with is trying to enforce Part 3 issues on Part 9 buildings. Given that in so many cases you go way out of your way to ensure you're not stepping into Part 3, the fact the they'll ask for full-out BSDS info, refuse to file the permit without it, then just disregard it down the line is something only a monopolistic bureaucracy could get away with.

On the other hand, I'm sympathetic. Their work environment is awful and it's mostly dead-end. But I almost can't imagine a more hostile place. Just the vibe of the place the moment you walk in is one of total animosity. But the cashier Ben is a super-friendly guy! I fear he's probably not long...

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

i keep hearing horor storries about the inspecter outside the city in the red river vally region and im told winnipegs got it easy.

Ryan Nickel?

[bomberjet]

Not a slight or a blanket statement. It's all about egos in the world of architect vs engineers vs their techs vs the rest. Seems th e more money you spent on your education, the bigger a dickhead you are. The eit's I work with strut around like they're the king of England. Meanwhile they have very little knowledge about anything practical, for obvious reasons. I find with more senior engineers, they just shrug everybody else off because "they're stupid". So you can never win. I do know some very knowledgeable, down to earth senior engineers, but they can be hard to come by. If you know some, hold on tight!