Canada's Panamerica Identity

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's not just about having an entertaining evening, it's about the way conversations tend to "skew". Not for everyone of course, but again... if we're rolling the dice, I know where I am more likely to find the type of interactions I find suit me best.

This is not to say that there aren't 250,000 people in Calgary and 1 million in Toronto that I could happily have such interactions with.

Only that in Amsterdam or Lyon, the percentage of people (and therefore the likelihood of stumbling upon them) would be somewhat higher.

Add to that the bonus of not having to "explain Quebec" or francophone Canada in a (often) defensive way to fellow Canadians that usually comes up during the course of the evening with people you casually meet... and you get the picture.

At some point you just wanna have as many of your evenings as possible free of discussions about the fucking parrot that the language police allegedly wanted to have speak French and not English.

Was that a Norwegian Blue parrot?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Was that a Norwegian Blue parrot?

I purposefully put that in there just for you.

[MolsonExport]

Add to that the bonus of not having to "explain Quebec" or francophone Canada in a (often) defensive way to fellow Canadians that usually comes up during the course of the evening with people you casually meet... and you get the picture.

Been there, done that. My francophone Quebecois friends get it much worse than I do, however.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Been there, done that. My francophone Quebecois friends get it much worse than I do, however.

Which is why being mistaken for Hispanics in Pahrump, Iowa (by people who've never heard a language other than English) can sometimes actually be a refreshing change!

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Um, yeah. English comprehension time.

"Common denominator" is a metaphorical construction that allows for exceptions, because it isn't being used in a strictly mathematical sense. It doesn't allow for exceptions adding up to 30, 40, 50% or higher, but in a discussion of generalizations it is completely and entirely reasonable to characterize the US as having racial tension, gun violence and menace etc. by comparison with Canada while still allowing for neighbourhoods in places like Ann Arbor and Madison and Ithaca, etc., where those characteristic US attributes are not very prevalent.

You, erm, been watching any of the news lately?

Definition of common denominator:

"a feature shared by all members of a group."

Definition of throughout:

"in every part of (a place or object)."

Also, Ann Arbor, Madison, Ithaca, etc. are not neighborhoods.

You statement was an exaggeration.

No one makes a generalization by explicitly stating that something is a common denominator that exists throughout a place. It is typically presented with caveats, such as, "generally" or "often" or "typically." As opposed to absolutist terms like "common denominator" or "throughout."

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by flar

saffronleaf, get out and explore metro Detroit a bit, and you will find that municipal borders might as well be borders between different countries. Literally one side of the highway can have palpable "night menace" and the other side can be as peaceful as Canada.

And that's also possibly the major difference between Canada and the US. It's a country of extremes and we're not.

I've been to Detroit, the city. I would completely agree with the assertion that all of those negative characteristics exist in the US to a greater extent, in aggregate, than they do in Canada. I would completely agree that places like Ann Arbor are few in the US.

But that is not the message conveyed when one states that something is a common denominator throughout the country from coast to coast.

[theman23]

You're getting hung up on semantics here. Rousseau's greater point is still true, you've even admitted so much.

[Nouvellecosse]

Semantics, yes. But things like that happen when people do things like talking down to one another and challenging one another's reading comprehension. The discussion drifts away from the central point and onto defending one's ego.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by theman23

You're getting hung up on semantics here. Rousseau's greater point is still true, you've even admitted so much.

It is actually relevant in the context of this discussion.

The discussion was about whether distant regions of Canada (e.g., GTA and Lower Mainland BC) are more similar to one another than regions of Canada and nearby regions of the US.

To prove that distant regions of Canada are more similar to one another, Rousseau sought to present characteristics that exist throughout the US that are absent throughout Canada (or vice-versa).

In that context, disproving the notion that any of these characteristics exists throughout either of the countries is significant.

It is significant, for example, that many users here pointed out the importance of hunting in the Prairies or Quebec or Northern Ontario, when hunting is trotted out as something ubiquitously present in the US and ubiquitously absent in Canada.

These might all seem like nit-picking. It might seem obvious that rural areas of Canada have hunting. But it undermines Rousseau's assertion and suggests that other factors (ruralness, access to wilderness, etc.) may be a more salient determinant of culture than the border.

[SignalHillHiker]

Ugh... this pan-Canadian thing just doesn't exist. It doesn't. I've lived in every province from here to Winnipeg, and none of them were as same as the other, and none of them were more similar to each other than the Americans due south of them.

Maritimes/New England. Quebec/Vermont. TO/Whatever (TO is an outlier because it's our biggest area, so it has it's own "Canadian" thing going on, it's a world onto itself, like NYC proper). Prairies/Prairies.

They're WAY more similar to what's below them than what's thousands of kilometres across. To me, that's just basic common sense.

Why the hell would Winnipeg ever be MORE similar to Toronto than Minneapolis? WHY would anyone ever expect that to be the case? It flies against logic AND reality.

[FrAnKs]

I'm late on that discussion, but I'll add a short point of view about it.
I went to NB and NS this summer, and except the language that makes me sometimes uncomfortable because I'm not 100% bilingual, ALL the rest was pretty much the same as Quebec and I felt at home anywhere !
Quebec may be different on some specific things, but Anglo-Canadians are not all the same from coast to coast aswell ! And Quebec is a part of what is Canada, so I just cannot split Quebec and the ROC on two.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by saffronleaf

It is significant, for example, that many users here pointed out the importance of hunting in the Prairies or Quebec or Northern Ontario, when hunting is trotted out as something ubiquitously present in the US and ubiquitously absent in Canada.

Agreed, the blanket statement "Americans hunt, Canadians don't hunt" is certainly a lot less true than the blanket statement "Rural North Americans hunt, urban North Americans don't hunt".

In other words, a cursory analysis of hunting habits over the continent tends to support the idea put forward by a few of us that on our continent there are other divides that are as important or even more important for everyday culture/way of life than the border.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

I went to NB and NS this summer, and except the language that makes me sometimes uncomfortable because I'm not 100% bilingual, ALL the rest was pretty much the same as Quebec and I felt at home anywhere !

Okay, and you're saying that you actually don't feel at home in Old Orchard?

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by lio45

Okay, and you're saying that you actually don't feel at home in Old Orchard?

A little less because it's not my country and it's normal ! But overall, I think I would be ''Familliar'' anywhere in North America.

But anyway, I bet you know how politics & mentalities are sometimes different in USA.
Guns, religions (the bible belt), violence, cultural tensions (White vs black) all that stuff ( I don't want to fall into cliches, but this is it )

There is alot more things about Canada that I agree with in general than USA. That is what makes me a Canadian.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Why the hell would Winnipeg ever be MORE similar to Toronto than Minneapolis? WHY would anyone ever expect that to be the case? It flies against logic AND reality.

... healthcare?

And also, people in Winnipeg and Toronto are polite and reserved, while people in Minneapolis are loud-mouthed and annoying, 'cause they're Americans.

In all seriousness, even stereotypically Canadian things like hockey are more of a snow belt trait than a strictly-north-of-border one. (Of course, our climate means it's something you'll find nearly everywhere, which isn't the case in the US.)

Trying to think of other typically Canadian things... well, there's that leaf on our flag; can you name the second largest producer of maple syrup behind Quebec? (Hint, its state tree is the Sugar Maple.)

P.S. I think #3 is NY State before either of NB/ON in yearly maple syrup volume. I could try to look up recent numbers if needed...

[lio45]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

But anyway, I bet you know how politics & mentalities are sometimes different in USA.
Guns, religions (the bible belt), violence, cultural tensions (White vs black) all that stuff ( I don't want to fall into cliches, but this is it )

Old Orchard is not in the Bible Belt, and I've never seen a gun there...

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by lio45

Old Orchard is not in the Bible Belt, and I've never seen a gun there...

Yes I know. Sorry I wasn't clear. It's almost sure that most of the northern states such as VT or NH feel like Canada.

When I visited VT, I felt like it was the Eastern townships.

But there is alot of states where I wouldn't live. Especially in the South.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by lio45

... healthcare?

ARGH... this type of shit drives me crazy.

How is healthcare a thing that people FEEL day to day? It's not something that WPG and TO share in common. Sure, the bills are comparable. But it's not some HUGE, unique "Canadian" thing to go to a hospital when hurt and not worry about it. It's the norm for all of the developed world, even in the States for those with good insurance.

To me, it's like saying.. "Uh, duh... they both need oxygen. They're totes the same."

Oh, healthcare's the same. Yeah, great. We should be the same fucking country then, let's go celebrate.

Originally Posted by lio45

And also, people in Winnipeg and Toronto are polite and reserved, while people in Minneapolis are loud-mouthed and annoying, 'cause they're Americans.

No. People in Winnipeg are left-wing and prairie folk. People in Minneapolis are the same. Neither would have much time for a flaming homosexual from Cabbagetown, and both would be uncomfortable and react politely when dealing with a Reform/Republican idiot from further west.

Originally Posted by lio45

In all seriousness, even stereotypically Canadian things like hockey are more of a snow belt trait than a strictly-north-of-border one. (Of course, our climate means it's something you'll find nearly everywhere, which isn't the case in the US.)

Trying to think of other typically Canadian things... well, there's that leaf on our flag; can you name the second largest producer of maple syrup behind Quebec? (Hint, its state tree is the Sugar Maple.)

P.S. I think #3 is NY State before either of NB/ON in yearly maple syrup volume. I could try to look up recent numbers if needed...

Leaf isn't even a maple, really. It's a hybrid that doesn't exist in nature. Has elements of all of the leaves of the 10 different maple species found in each province.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Leaf isn't even a maple, really. It's a hybrid that doesn't exist in nature. Has elements of all of the leaves of the 10 different maple species found in each province.

You clearly don't know much about maples. The leaf on the current flag is a maple leaf, it's actually immediately recognizable as a sugar maple leaf.

Interestingly enough, it wasn't always the case... here's an older flag proposal with what really looks a LOT more like a red maple leaf (or hybrid red/silver leaf) than a sugar maple one.




Just FYI:

(Left, sugar maple leaf, right, red maple leaf)

[SignalHillHiker]

Well, if you're correct, they still teach us in school that it's a non-existent hybrid of all the different leaves.