Winnipeg Retail

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

Probably not so much a bust as a case where it's going to take a lot longer than initially envisioned to materialize. Makes you feel good about all the money the city spent on building up the roads around there, eh? By the time the development is built out it'll be time to replace the infrastructure.

The original vision for the upscale outdoor mall north of Sterling Lyon has been downgraded to some sort of pseudo-outlet mall. Its projected opening is in 2017. The south side of Sterling Lyon is supposed to be more conventional big-box stores, but it does seem that the SW quadrant of the city is pretty well covered already... there probably aren't many potential tenants who aren't already located closer to McGillivray or at Polo Park.

I think the north side of Sterling Lyon may end up with a set of its own big-box outlets. There's a 40K sq ft Long & McQuade outlet scheduled and I doubt it's the only of it's kind...

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

Probably not so much a bust as a case where it's going to take a lot longer than initially envisioned to materialize. Makes you feel good about all the money the city spent on building up the roads around there, eh? By the time the development is built out it'll be time to replace the infrastructure.

The original vision for the upscale outdoor mall north of Sterling Lyon has been downgraded to some sort of pseudo-outlet mall. Its projected opening is in 2017. The south side of Sterling Lyon is supposed to be more conventional big-box stores, but it does seem that the SW quadrant of the city is pretty well covered already... there probably aren't many potential tenants who aren't already located closer to McGillivray or at Polo Park.

Three high profile companies have backed away or suspended their plans for the Season of Tuxedo development. The rights to develop the north portion of the site also changed hands. Further in terms of it being a bust, SportsCheck and Marshalls both opened new outlets in the area which could have found a home in Seasons by River City Sports. Instead they opted for locations next to the Canadian Tire. Despite what you think of those stores not landing properties like that when they continue to find interested parties is a big loss for Seasons. The looming question is with both Famous Footwear and DSW entering the Canadian market where will they locate in the Seasons/Kenaston area. If both of those land locations in Kenaston over Seasons it will truly be a death knoll of the development.

In terms of the proposed grocery store we are either talking a new entrant like Whole Foods or a new build for Superstore to replace Grant and Kenaston. Personally I thought that the new Superstore and a conversion of Grant and Kenaston to the Loblaw's owned T&T banner would have been a win on both fronts. It seems though that Loblaw's may be changing direction to more of a store in a larger store model. This means the pharmacy/health/beauty will essentially become a Shopper's and the ethnic food sections will become T&T.

The outlet mall is not a downgrade on the original plan but a completely new plan that scraped what was originally pitched for the site. The Seasons site is a little smaller than the Niagara location however it will mostly mean fewer of the outlying restaurants are included. This will not really be an issue as the immediate area is already relatively rich with chain restaurants. In terms of the other shops, people I have talked with that have seen the Niagara location report it as offering similar selections to both Simon's and Tanger's properties in the States. It will be interesting to see how their anchor the development.

[esquire]

^ Further to your point, there is still a fair bit of space either for lease or for new builds at Kenaston and McGillivray. If you're a retailer, do you locate in the Seasons of Tuxedo no man's land and lose money until there is a critical mass of stores 7 or 8 years from now, or do you go to the built up area where thousands of people a day are already headed?

Given the phase of economic pain we are apparently entering right now, I think Seasons of Tuxedo will be dormant for a good while.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Further to your point, there is still a fair bit of space either for lease or for new builds at Kenaston and McGillivray. If you're a retailer, do you locate in the Seasons of Tuxedo no man's land and lose money until there is a critical mass of stores 7 or 8 years from now, or do you go to the built up area where thousands of people a day are already headed?

Given the phase of economic pain we are apparently entering right now, I think Seasons of Tuxedo will be dormant for a good while.

Very good point.

Kenaston Commons still has plenty of buildable space. I can't imagine why anybody would have any interest in another power centre until there was at least some residential density to draw on. As it is, there isn't even servicing capacity for anything south of Wilkes and it isn't planned for another 5-7 years. With all the uncertainty of the barracks, I have no idea how you rationalize an under-developed field over anything in the commons.

And this leaves aside that there are likely a few vacancies coming in the Smart centre with Reitmans and Danier on the ropes and Mexx already in bankruptcy...

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I think the north side of Sterling Lyon may end up with a set of its own big-box outlets. There's a 40K sq ft Long & McQuade outlet scheduled and I doubt it's the only of it's kind...

Does this mean L&M is shutting down one of their other stores and relocating, or is this an entirely new location? L&M is just completing a total renovation of the Wall St. location, so I wonder if the plan is to eventually close the Stafford location? Seem unlikely they would want 3 Winnipeg locations?

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

Does this mean L&M is shutting down one of their other stores and relocating, or is this an entirely new location? L&M is just completing a total renovation of the Wall St. location, so I wonder if the plan is to eventually close the Stafford location? Seem unlikely they would want 3 Winnipeg locations?

I don't have any actual knowledge about this, but the Stafford location is very small, very busy, and very cramped. I know they've been running at capacity for many years now. They are one of the only places in the city where you can rent all the equipment (lights, audio, visual) for big events, and one of the rental guys told me there once that they often run out of equipment but they can't buy more because they have no where to keep it. Also, there classes are always fully booked.

I wouldn't be surprised if they moved to a location where they could have a much bigger warehouse and more teaching space.

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I don't have any actual knowledge about this, but the Stafford location is very small, very busy, and very cramped. I know they've been running at capacity for many years now. They are one of the only places in the city where you can rent all the equipment (lights, audio, visual) for big events, and one of the rental guys told me there once that they often run out of equipment but they can't buy more because they have no where to keep it. Also, there classes are always fully booked.

I wouldn't be surprised if they moved to a location where they could have a much bigger warehouse and more teaching space.

This makes sense. I always thought it was strange that L&M didn't have a store more firmly in the southern suburban part of the city. I'm old enough that I think of the Stafford location as the "new store" that replaced the really small and cramped L&M on Corydon back in the 1980s. I guess it was just a matter of time before L&M embraced the big box concept in Winnipeg.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

Does this mean L&M is shutting down one of their other stores and relocating, or is this an entirely new location? L&M is just completing a total renovation of the Wall St. location, so I wonder if the plan is to eventually close the Stafford location? Seem unlikely they would want 3 Winnipeg locations?

I actually don't know, but it would seem redundant to keep both locations open.

That said, there's no guarantee that store goes ahead either.

[CoryB]

Honestly I cannot see the L&M store with 40,000 sq in the north part of Seasons. With River City punching an 17,000 sq hole into the south side and a planned expansion just to the west of that which could easily append about 23,000 sq that would seem to make a lot more sense. I would also imagine the owner of the vacant River City space in anxious to find a new tenant so concessions on the pre-built space might be possible.

Also from looking at the Niagara outlet mall, the first Ivanhoé Cambridge outlet to open, the Seasons development is already running a little tight for space in the north side. There should be more information coming forward soon if the build is on scheduled. Also with both Ivanhoé Cambridge and Tanger, who has yet to public announced a secured site, looking to build Winnipeg's first outlet mall I think there is some pressure to make sure the Seasons development happens quickly.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Honestly I cannot see the L&M store with 40,000 sq in the north part of Seasons. With River City punching an 17,000 sq hole into the south side and a planned expansion just to the west of that which could easily append about 23,000 sq that would seem to make a lot more sense. I would also imagine the owner of the vacant River City space in anxious to find a new tenant so concessions on the pre-built space might be possible.

Also from looking at the Niagara outlet mall, the first Ivanhoé Cambridge outlet to open, the Seasons development is already running a little tight for space in the north side. There should be more information coming forward soon if the build is on scheduled. Also with both Ivanhoé Cambridge and Tanger, who has yet to public announced a secured site, looking to build Winnipeg's first outlet mall I think there is some pressure to make sure the Seasons development happens quickly.

RFP has already closed and an architect has been assigned. I know Wintrup was working on the planning components.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

RFP has already closed and an architect has been assigned. I know Wintrup was working on the planning components.

I wonder how much parking will be required for a 40,000 square foot musical instrument store. We'll have to check the zoning bylaw and hope they have enough.

[biguc]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I don't have any actual knowledge about this, but the Stafford location is very small, very busy, and very cramped. I know they've been running at capacity for many years now. They are one of the only places in the city where you can rent all the equipment (lights, audio, visual) for big events, and one of the rental guys told me there once that they often run out of equipment but they can't buy more because they have no where to keep it. Also, there classes are always fully booked.

I wouldn't be surprised if they moved to a location where they could have a much bigger warehouse and more teaching space.

Closing a store because it's busy. That makes perfect sense. I wonder if it ever occurred to them that the success of that location is because of its location

[cllew]

Here is what Long and McQuade are looking to build @ Northeast Corner of Wilkes Avenue and Kenaston Boulevard


9,500 sq ft showroom;

5,000 sq ft. administration offices & lessons rooms;

2,000 sq ft. of warehouse space for storage of music gear;

2,000 sq ft loading space for rental gear pick up/drop off;

1,500 sq ft maintenance space;

10,000 sq ft lease space for other tenants.

Submitted plans are conceptual and reflect a Long and McQuade building that has been constructed in Alberta.

I don't see any reduction in parking in the city report for April 8/14

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by biguc

I wonder if it ever occurred to them that the success of that location is because of its location

I'm sure being the premier (and largest) musical instrument retailer in the country might have something to do with it. I'm sure they'll be successful regardless of where they're located...

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by Bdog

I'm sure being the premier (and largest) musical instrument retailer in the country might have something to do with it. I'm sure they'll be successful regardless of where they're located...

A huge amount of their business is in rentals and the size of their present location was limiting that severely.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by cllew

Here is what Long and McQuade are looking to build @ Northeast Corner of Wilkes Avenue and Kenaston Boulevard

The north-east corner of Wilkes and Kenaston would place this around the Golf Dome and outside of the Season of Tuxedo development. Thanks for the clarification on the location.

[BubberMiley]

It's to be built on that little patch of forested land, which is kind of unfortunate considering all the cleared land that's already around there. That spot would be a nice spot for a dog park to replace the one Sam gave away in the Parker Lands. The forest there is to be cleared and filled in with single family stucco boxes, although I hear Orlikow is trying to buy it back.

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by Bdog

I'm sure being the premier (and largest) musical instrument retailer in the country might have something to do with it. I'm sure they'll be successful regardless of where they're located...

L&M has no serious competitor in this market. They bought out Mothers Music to prevent a large competitor from entering the western Canadian market. As a result, they can basically locate wherever they want and the business will come to them. At least they've invested in the Wall St. store, showing some commitment to central Winnipeg -- although they refer the Wall St. store "Winnipeg North". I guess that's as far north as they want to be in Winnipeg (sorry Garden City).

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The north-east corner of Wilkes and Kenaston would place this around the Golf Dome and outside of the Season of Tuxedo development. Thanks for the clarification on the location.

Yeah, I remember this property now. It was rezoned from M1 if I recall correctly. Not that long ago...

[cllew]

Part of the conditons for the varience for L&M were to keep as much of the forest as possible. There are also some sort of birds that nest there and they have to protect that as well.