Salt Lake MSA Development Thread

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by ToysNoiz

I fear that visitors/tourists driving from Utah county into Salt Lake county will mistake Sandy for SLC.

That would be like Confusing Long Beach for San Diego. Oh. wait. My sister has. lol. smh. it happens

[Hatman]

Well I, as one who sees the world from a transit perspective, think this project is awesome and entirely logical. Sure, there is the slight problem of dropping a large amount of density where there wasn't any before, but if that has to happen, this spot is the perfect place for it. Within that 1 square mile there is I-15, light rail, commuter rail, a large mall, and a very modern soccer stadium. It's a site too good to pass up; something was going to be built there, and I'm glad that the planners seem to have adopted the mantra of 'go big or go home.'
Good for Sandy, good for everybody.

[AllOutOfBubbleGum]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

Praise glorious stalin and beautiful house we own in great soviet land!

I'm splitting hairs but Stalin was dead in the 60s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Khrushchev

...and I would welcome a Stalin approved building any day. (With modern upgrades) Just not a Stalin built one, because he would just kill you after it was done.

[jubguy3]

Ahh. Thanks for the correction! I'm bad at history to say the least...

[RC14]

Originally Posted by SL,UT

You people are insane!!!! This is great news for Sandy City. All you snobby Salt Lakers get so offended when development takes place in the burbs. Get over it. Land is cheep in suburbia and we need more density outside of the core. I'm sure people will choose to live here. It will be a great alternative to Downtown. Closer to the ski resorts and convenient access from I-15. Downtown Salt Lake real estate prices are so ridiculous, it gives me burning diarrhea to think about them. New 700 sq foot, one bedroom at $1100? Might as well rape me... As much as I'd like to live downtown, I'd take my $750 per month, 1000 sq foot, 2 bedroom in Ft Union any day..... I can deal with the soccer Mom's and the strip malls. I can't deal with Salt Lake snobbery that has revealed itself over the past few years......

I don't see the need for a large metro area to have one urban core. I understand why we don't want to spread out all over the Wasatch Front but the suburbs are already there and it seems like it would make more since to urbanize different parts of the valley and shorten everyone's commute than to make everyone pile onto I-15 and Front Runner to commute downtown every day.

I think it would be nice if the major cultural centers were downtown like the Jazz, RSL, Utah Symphony, Temple Square etc but it would also be nice if people who lived in Sandy, Lehi, West Valley etc. could live, work and shop in those areas if they choose to.

[delts145]

Salt Lake and it's valley are developing in much the same way as Los Angeles and it's central basin have over the past 100 years. It's pretty interesting how much the Wasatch and Los Angeles share in the arrangement of their grid, and water and mountain barriers. The Los Angeles basin is now what Salt Lake Valley will eventually become, but without the transit setbacks. Probably Tooele and Cedar Valley will become to Salt Lake City what The San Fernando Valley has become. Orange County is The Wasatch version of Utah County. Of course, Salt Lakes advantage is that it's highway/mass transit infrastructure will follow a more sane and responsible pattern than Los Angeles of the 50's - 70's. Los Angeles is developing in a much more responsible and attractive way now, and I see Salt Lake City Metro pretty much implementing the exact same type of development patterns.

Sandy/Draper/Lehi will eventurally develop in much the same way as Century City/Westwood and it's neighborhood in relation to Downtown. Both Century City and Downtown L.A. are thriving and experiencing a lot of vertical growth. Also, we will see State Street develop in much the same way as Wilshire Blvd., with intermittent areas of vertical density, and multiple cores., such as Murray. In State Street's case, it would be likely that it will become an effective BRT corridor vs. the Wilshire subway corridor, but an effective mass transit collector all the same. Another major downtown that is now becoming an impressive core and skyline is Hollywood. For those of you who are very familiar with the streets of Central Los Angeles, you know it is much more dense that many tourist types realize. It's major corridors are becoming very dense, but it has also managed to halt the degradation of it's historic neighborhoods, unlike the patterns of the ugly 60's/70's. Metro Salt Lake City is well served in following the patterns of today's Central Basin Los Angeles, which I think it is far better than many metros, such as Portland. Sure, Portland has some excellent examples, which can be emulated, but Salt Lake Valley has become a hybrid of sorts, that has learned from LA's past mistakes and it's current successes.

I'm am excited that Salt Lake City is developing these vertical cores at this stage of the game, accompanied or led by both comparatively efficient highways and mass transit. The development of various transportation modes in tandem leads to a much more effective outcome than putting all ones eggs in a specific basket, as has Portland or L.A. of the past. While L.A. is now trying to catch up with it's mass transit, it has become extremely expensive, much more so than if it had developed in the same way that Salt Lake City is now developing. From what so many native Portlanders in LA have told me, surface streets can be an absolute nightmare in Portland. That's okay if you are determined to live in a no car environment, but I'm enthusiastic about the new tech cars, which are evolving at a rapid pace. I have no desire to eliminate the future clean auto, and squash the freedom, which led to America's greatness. On the other hand, I am thrilled that Salt Lake City is also giving the many who want to live in a more urban setting an ever increasing set of options.

It's all about choices. If you prefer Downtown Salt Lake City, GREAT. If you prefer a village setting like Midvale or especially Sugar House, FANTASTIC. Perhaps, a hybrid of the two like a more secular Ogden or perhaps a more religiously centered core like Downtown Provo. Myself, I am now struggling to figure out whether I prefer an Alpine, a Downtown SLC, a Downtown Provo, or a Park City, perhaps Midway. I'm not sure where I'll end up along the Wasatch. The awesome thing is, is that the Wasatch is now developing so many great options with excellent access, it's becoming like being kid in a candy store.

[goldcntry]

Well said Delts!

[StevenF]

I don't hate the fact Sandy is wanting to build these 2 25 story apartments in their downtown, as I feel having city centers mixed in around the valley can be a great thing. I am glad West Valley and Murray are looking vertical since they are pretty much built out now and vertical is the best way to continue to grow. Murray has some of the best options since it has access to 3 TRAX stations, I-15, State and Main Streets and a Frontrunner station. Murray has the best connection into downtown Salt Lake City and could end up being like New York's Midtown. I think my biggest issues with Sandy City and its mayor is it feels like posturing and dick wagging more than actually wanting to build a great city center. Maybe Sandy is finally going the right direction, but who knows, only the next 5-10 years will tell.

[DMTower]

I don't think the issue is that Sandy is trying to build a city center. The issue is Sandy inevitably gets it wrong every single time. Eventually, it will all have to be redone because they either don't understand urban planning, or they're too cheap to do it right from the beginning. They don't build density that incorporates mixed use, good street engagement, street grids with smart transit, etc. You don't hear people complaining about Murray or West Valley because those cities are really trying to do it right.

[Future Mayor]

I wanted to reiterate that I don't have a problem with Sandy adding density in their Civic Center, I simply get tired of them lauding these grandiose plans that IMO, don't have the backing of the market. I think adding density all around the valley is crucial, but to laud this as Transit oriented without adding a shuttle between Trax, FrontRunner and South Towne is asinine.

The biggest issue I have with the Sandy Civic Center is that they have been so desperate in the past to have a downtown that they simply let Suburban style office buildings build in downtown, without having an actual plan in place, requiring them to be on some sort of grid, including sidewalks, etc (speaking of the buildings north of City Hall.

I anticipate that this proposal will eventually happen, but I don't see the two 25 story towers being more than about 10 stories. Which I think will be a great addition to Sandy Civic Center.

[TonyAnderson]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

One word. Proscenium

The sky is not falling people, the sky is NOT falling.

Will Sandy get a 25 story residential high rise? Maybe. Will it be in the next 10 years? No way in hell. You can't simply plop an urban condo tower in the middle of the burbs and have it fill up. Urban condo towers demand urban amenities around them, something to walk to, restaurants, a bar, retail stores, entertainment.

I can possibly see the the two middle buildings of the rendering getting built, which will add some vibrancy to Sandy Civic Center, but until there are more offices, a better connection to transit and a something to actually walk to, I really don't see anything happening with either of the two taller buildings.

Yes there is a target and Southtowne, but neither of those is welcoming to the pedestrian, and without some sort of easy transit connection people are going to drive to the mall, not walk.

I do wonder what Sandy continues to promise these developers with big dreams.

Note to Sandy City, you can't instantly build yourself into a downtown, the momentum has to be organic. Yes you have city hall, some office buildings and some street oriented buildings, however show me someone walking around your downtown that isn't doing it for exercise on their lunch break. Show me more than a couple of people that commute by transit. The existing office building in Sandy City Center are 100% suburban in their orientation, not urban.

Here are things that need to happen before a 25 story condo tower will ever be even a slight possibility. Secure the Hale Center Theater deal, (which I don't like), attempt to connect your existing office buildings to any type of pedestrian connectivity, rather than the existing suburban layout. Connect Trax and FrontRunner with some sort of bus/Trolley. Build an office building over 10 stories tall. Require mixed use buildings fronting the sidewalk, with 1st floor flexibility. Build a residential building over 3 stories, that is oriented to the pedestrian rather than the car. Even with all that, I could MAYBE see Sandy being able to support a condo tower around 10-12 stories, but 25? Not in the next 15 years.

Eh, you never know. See places like Bellevue WA for example of it happening.

[delts145]

^^^
Very much agree Tony... And on the other side of I-15, remember there's this going up. Seems like developers are tripping over themselves to take advantage of predicted metro patterns. Indeed, if the Wasatch continues it's current growth pace, this junction will definitely become a major skyline core over the next 10-15 years. Kind of cool that traveling on I-15, we'll eventually go through a probable highrise tunnel.

Originally Posted by EPdesign

[Future Mayor]

The proposed office tower is convenient to transit, obviously, since it is immediately adjacent to the FrontRunner stop, but to say the apartment development is in an ideal location because of it's proximity to transit is completely off base.

For a pedestrian to get to transit, here are the stats. From the NE of the project at Sego Lily and 200 W, the project it is nearly 2/3 of a mile to the Trax station. From the NW corner of the project FrontRunner is almost 3/4 of a mile, or just under a 1/2 mile if they decided to walk down the side of the tracks where they intersect with Sego Lily (100th S). Lastly, it's nearly a 1/3 of a mile to the closest mall entrance.

Here are some comparisons to other Transit stops:

Claiming that 550 N 800 W, is in close proximity to the 800 W N. Temple Trax station.

Claiming that 550 W 700 S is close to Central Station Front Runner.

The aren't.


Transit oriented development works ideally within 1/4 mile of the transit stop, a 1/2 mile at the max. So unless part of Sandy and the developers plan is to do some sort of permanent connection between Trax and FrontRunner, along 100th S then most residents of this development will need a car to even get to transit, let alone anywhere else.

Second note, 615 units, I am assuming about 1,000 cars for the residents, because they will all need one (see above) The infrastructure in the area isn't built to accommodate continually increasing amounts of traffic, even with the new road to the west, and the new off ramp. Sure an off ramp might help a little, but it only increases traffic on the on-ramps.

So once again, unless there is a transit connection plan, this isn't an urban development, it is a car centric highrise in the burbs.

[brankrom]

I looked at moving into the multi family Albion Village in Sandy but I determined it was just too far to transit to commute to my office downtown.

Albion Village still a decade later hasn't reached build-out there's hundreds of units that are truly a TOD at the Sandy trax station that are still either stalled or under construction for the last decade. Having actually briefly considered moving to this exact area there isn't anything around, its still a suburban wasteland that isn't even remotely walkable, biking maybe, but again there isn't shit for "millenials" to do around this area. Perhaps this property could exist as a corporate time share type thing as place but no one is going to want to live in a Sandy high rise. I can't figure out how this can pencil out for financing unless the developer is rolling in cash and has money to burn or needs to create a loss of some sort for tax purposes. The only thing that could possibly happen would be extremely "competitive" (read cheap or below market) perhaps even subsidized pricing for the units. Price the units in such a way that the inconvenience of location and schlepping groceries from the Super Target from a car to an elevator to a condo and schlepping yourself from your condo to the elevator to your car to your office is worth the pain in the ass factor. Of course with Public housing design elements maybe this is the demo they are going for.

I am virtually sure of there will not be a 25 story residential building by the end of 2015... nor likely by 2025.

[delts145]

Deer Valley to Park City's Main Street: one gondola or two gondolas? ...Plus major expansion for Deer Valley Resort on the way.

By Jay Hamburger - The Park Record

http://www.parkrecord.com/park_city-news/ci_27102975/deer-valley-main-street-one-gondola-or-two

The top executive at Deer Valley Resort is scheduled to talk with Park City leaders on Thursday, continuing a series of high-profile City Hall appearances recently by figures in the ski industry...

...He said he anticipates questions about Deer Valley's internal planning efforts in preparation for building a gondola linking the slopes with Main Street. City Hall is expected to hold a critical role in the discussions since it seems almost certain the terminal on the Main Street end of the gondola will be on property now under municipal ownership.

Wheaton said Deer Valley considered a range of options for a Main Street connection with two of them now being more closely studied...

...Either of the routes could be redesigned to include the Huntsman estate on Royal Street, Wheaton said. That acreage is on the market. There has been speculation that the Huntsman estate, notable for its development potential, could occupy an important location along a gondola route.

Construction of a gondola could start as early as the summer of 2016, Wheaton said. He said Deer Valley is in discussions with the Doppelmayr Group manufacturer about a gondola...

...Wheaton, meanwhile, said he intends to describe plans for major development overlooking the Jordanelle Reservoir. The land is in Wasatch County and Deer Valley is one of four landowners in the vicinity. A project would involve an expansion of Deer Valley's skiing terrain. Work such as the expansion of the skiing and the installation of infrastructure could start as early as the summer, he said...

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[delts145]

The Parkite is finally unveiled on Main Street

"For Sundance, this thing will be just crazy," Hunt said...


Bubba Brown - The Park Record

http://www.parkrecord.com/summit_county-.../parkite-is-finally-unveiled-main-street


The first store at the newly renovated The Parkite, formerly known as the Main Street Mall, opened Friday.
The Parkite will feature five retail stores and 15 condominiums. (Christopher Reeves/Park Record)


Patrons poured in from the busy sidewalk on Friday, flooding Lululemon Athletica, the first retail store open at the newly renovated Parkite building.
The construction fence that had lined the building and blocked the view from Main Street for many months had recently been taken down, and many were getting their first look at the future of what was formerly the Main Street Mall.
...

...Though Lululemon was the first retail store to open at The Parkite, there will four others. Opening sometime in December will be Gorsuch, a ski apparel store, while Robin's Jeans and an UGG boots retailer are slated to open by the end of January, Hunt said. A fifth retail space remains unfilled.



.

[delts145]

Wow, I'm lovin all this development news coming out of the Park City area. Park City continues to heap so much capital and prestige onto the greater Salt Lake City Metro.

Park City to become largest ski area in the Nation...Canyons Resort name to change and incorporate into Park City

Vail Resorts details blueprints for 'centerpiece' gondola > It will connect PCMR and Canyons Resort, summer construction planned


...A connection has drawn widespread interest in the time since Vail Resorts acquired PCMR. The tourism industry, rank-and-file Parkites and Wall Street analysts who cover the publicly traded Vail Resorts have been intrigued by the prospects of a combined resort...It will be "one of the most ambitious and impactful capital programs in U.S. ski industry history and will transform the guest experience at Park City Mountain Resort," ...Katz said Vail Resorts will create "one of only a handful of top destination resorts in the world, both in terms of the experience, but also in terms of the financial performance...


Jay Hamburger, The Park Record

http://www.parkrecord.com/park_city-news...s-details-blueprints-centerpiece-gondola

Vail Resorts on Monday said it plans to build a gondola linking Park City Mountain Resort and Canyons Resort prior to the 2015-2016 ski season, publicly outlining details of the much-anticipated connection for the first time as part of a broader announcement involving more than $50 million in upgrades.

In a release, Vail Resorts said the link will be an eight-person gondola that will travel between the base of the Silverlode lift at PCMR and the Flatiron lift at Canyons Resort. It will also offer an unloading point at Pine Cone Ridge, Vail Resorts said.

Planning for the link has been a priority since Vail Resorts acquired PCMR in the fall. The Colorado firm operates Canyons Resort as part of a long-term agreement with the Talisker corporate family. The release says the linked resort will offer more than 7,300 acres of skiing terrain. It would be the largest mountain resort in the U.S...

...Vail Resorts, meanwhile, said in the release it intends to upgrade the King Con and Motherlode lifts prior to the next ski season. King Con, now a four-person lift, will be turned into a six-person one. It will be a high-speed, detachable lift. The Motherlode lift, a fixed-grip, three-person lift, will be made into a high-speed, detachable lift for four people. The release says the upgrades will cut lift lines.

Vail Resorts also said it wants to build a new Snow Hut restaurant with 500 inside seats at the bottom of the Silverlode lift. It will be situated at the terminal of the gondola. The firm also said snowmaking will be expanded on two Iron Mountain-area trails at Canyons Resort that will become more central as a result of the connection. The Red Pine Restaurant at Canyons Resort will be renovated...


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[asies1981]

Big plans for a new brewery in South Salt Lake.

[brankrom]

That "SOSOLA" area has a lot of potential. I myself like the idea of a beer garden adjacent to a church...

[Future Mayor]

That's great news for SOSALA, I too feel that it has huge potential and to remake the entire image of South Salt Lake.

I have my eye on a parcel SOSALA that I would love to see some taller, higher density housing built on. Even a good amount of 4-7 story residential buildings in the area would be a huge catalyst for the area. Central Point Condos are a great first step, but adding 5-6 more, similar density, would be huge.