Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0 - Page 84

kevinbottawa · #**1661** Posted **Dec 13, 2014, 2:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr872190

think of a certain corporate sponsor that has done events on the Quebec side in the last few years and you would have a pretty good idea of what they are least vying for.

Red Bull?

eltodesukane · #**1662** Posted **Dec 13, 2014, 2:44 PM**

I'm looking at the renderings of the future stations,
Blair for example, http://www.confederationline.ca/gallery-lrt/blair-gallery/#
and I wonder why it is not properly enclosed.
Everything is semi-open, as seems to be the norm in all OC Transpo structures (Hurdman, St Laurent, Billings Bridge, ...).
Not very comfortable during the winter.
Am I the only one thinking this?

citydwlr · #**1663** Posted **Dec 13, 2014, 3:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

Red Bull?

I was thinking that as well; based off of the Flugtag event that occurred a few years ago. Did they not hold something in Gatineau last year at Jacques Cartier Park? They have also held Crashed Ice qualifiers in Ottawa for the last few years, with the next one on February 7, 2015. Could we be getting one of the full Crashed Ice events (finally)?

J.OT13 · #**1664** Posted **Dec 13, 2014, 5:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

I'm looking at the renderings of the future stations,
Blair for example, http://www.confederationline.ca/gallery-lrt/blair-gallery/#
and I wonder why it is not properly enclosed.
Everything is semi-open, as seems to be the norm in all OC Transpo structures (Hurdman, St Laurent, Billings Bridge, ...).
Not very comfortable during the winter.
Am I the only one thinking this?

That was just another way to "cut the cloth to fit the suit". We were supposed to have fully enclosed stations (and Blair was planned underground) but ended up with these open stations with "passive" climate control.

The only fully enclosed stations will be the three subway stations downtown and arguably St-Laurent Station as it's already in a tunnel.

silvergate · #**1665** Posted **Dec 13, 2014, 7:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That was just another way to "cut the cloth to fit the suit". We were supposed to have fully enclosed stations (and Blair was planned underground) but ended up with these open stations with "passive" climate control.

The only fully enclosed stations will be the three subway stations downtown and arguably St-Laurent Station as it's already in a tunnel.

That's just nuts... why would anyone who has spent any amount of time here in the winter not look for a way to enclose them. The O-train is already horrific to wait for in the winter.

J.OT13 · #**1666** Posted **Dec 13, 2014, 7:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvergate

That's just nuts... why would anyone who has spent any amount of time here in the winter not look for a way to enclose them. The O-train is already horrific to wait for in the winter.

The stations will be significantly better than the current O-Train's bus shelter type stations. I also find that the Confederation Lines surface stations are also better designed than Calgary or Edmonton's newer/proposed stations.

Take your typical Ottawa Confederation Line station desing, say Hurdman:

http://www.snclavalin.com/en/the-confederation-line

Compare it to a typical Edmonton design, MacEwan:

http://www.edmonton.ca/transportation/ets/future_transit/north-lrt-stations.aspx

Ottawa offers more protection from what I can see.

GlassCity · #**1667** Posted **Dec 13, 2014, 7:26 PM**

Hurdman Station looks pretty much identical to the SkyTrain stations we have here in terms of protection.

J.OT13 · #**1668** Posted **Dec 13, 2014, 7:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Hurdman Station looks pretty much identical to the SkyTrain stations we have here in terms of protection.

I think they looked hard into the SkyTrain as an example for stations since in terms of a transit systems, Vancouver's is the closest match (best rapid transit possible lowest possible price).

MalcolmTucker · #**1669** Posted **Dec 13, 2014, 7:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvergate

That's just nuts... why would anyone who has spent any amount of time here in the winter not look for a way to enclose them. The O-train is already horrific to wait for in the winter.

Last thing you want is making the stations desireable to hang around in. Making the stations less comfortable makes them safer and lowers security cost. What will the worst headway be anyways? Ten minutes off peak?

Catenary · #**1670** Posted **Dec 13, 2014, 8:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Last thing you want is making the stations desireable to hang around in. Making the stations less comfortable makes them safer and lowers security cost. What will the worst headway be anyways? Ten minutes off peak?

I know some people working for RTG have been pushing to have the infrastructure included to allow for future enclosed waiting areas, since they foresee them being installed after opening.

1overcosc · #**1671** Posted **Dec 14, 2014, 2:04 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Last thing you want is making the stations desireable to hang around in. Making the stations less comfortable makes them safer and lowers security cost. What will the worst headway be anyways? Ten minutes off peak?

Frequencies are supposed to very high. In the EA:

lrt's friend · #**1672** Posted **Dec 14, 2014, 3:32 AM**

Considering this is the main transit spine for the entire city, why are there significantly reduced service hours on Sundays? If we are serious about transit in this city, service on Sundays should start at least an hour earlier and end an hour later.

Furthermore, it is strange why there is reduced frequency to Baseline only in the AM peak period only, to the point that frequency is worse than in most off-peak hours. Of course, if there is split service between Baseline and Bayshore, frequency gets doubled in all service hours. Transfer wait times start getting quite significant especially in the evening.

Catenary · #**1673** Posted **Dec 14, 2014, 4:42 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Considering this is the main transit spine for the entire city, why are there significantly reduced service hours on Sundays? If we are serious about transit in this city, service on Sundays should start at least an hour earlier and end an hour later.

Furthermore, it is strange why there is reduced frequency to Baseline only in the AM peak period only, to the point that frequency is worse than in most off-peak hours. Of course, if there is split service between Baseline and Bayshore, frequency gets doubled in all service hours. Transfer wait times start getting quite significant especially in the evening.

My guess is it has to do with getting trains onto the line. Service ramps up much faster than it ramps down in the evening, and there is a limit to how many slots you have to send trains out of the yard without impacting trains already on the line.

1overcosc · #**1674** Posted **Dec 14, 2014, 9:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Considering this is the main transit spine for the entire city, why are there significantly reduced service hours on Sundays? If we are serious about transit in this city, service on Sundays should start at least an hour earlier and end an hour later.

Furthermore, it is strange why there is reduced frequency to Baseline only in the AM peak period only, to the point that frequency is worse than in most off-peak hours. Of course, if there is split service between Baseline and Bayshore, frequency gets doubled in all service hours. Transfer wait times start getting quite significant especially in the evening.

This is from the pre-2013 planning when the split service to Bayshore was not a thing (LF-Bayshore was BRT then) so I think the point was to say that this would be the Baseline-Blair frequency, with half the trains short-turned in the AM at LF. Not sure how things will change with the split service, but I imagine they would never let service go below 15 minutes on the branches.

For the trunk, this is damn good frequency. Better than the current BRT service. Right now, if going from the train station to Downtown, for example, even in the middle of the day it's not uncommon to have to wait 10 minutes.

My main beefs, with this, is related to rush hour service:
1) The rush hours are skewed towards earlier commuters. PM peak starts as early as 2:45PM, but it ends right at 6? Seriously?
2) Another issue is the reduced PM frequency. OC Transpo has always thought that people commute to work in the morning then teleport back home in the evening. AM peak buses always have higher frequency than PM peak buses, and this results in PM peak buses being significantly more overcrowded & unreliable than those in the AM peak. I see this stupid mentality is continuing with LRT. Sigh.

As for service hours, it's not bad. In Toronto subway service does not start until 9AM on Sundays, and it doesn't start until 6AM on weekdays. We're an hour ahead on those counts. We're also an hour ahead of Toronto on Friday & Saturday end times, although we are behind on Sunday end times (Toronto subway service goes to 1AM on all days).

eternallyme · #**1675** Posted **Dec 14, 2014, 9:39 PM**

If I wrote the schedule and frequency, it would be for Phase I:

Monday to Friday
* 5:30 am to 6:30 am - Every 7-8 minutes
* 6:30 am to 9:30 am - Every 2-3 minutes
* 9:30 am to 3:00 pm - Every 5 minutes
* 3:00 pm to 6:00 pm - Every 2-3 minutes
* 6:00 pm to 10:00 pm - Every 5 minutes
* 10:00 pm to 12:30 am - Every 7-8 minutes
* 12:30 am to 2:30 am - Every 10 minutes (Friday only)

Saturday
* 7:00 am to 9:00 am - Every 7-8 minutes
* 9:00 am to 7:00 pm - Every 5 minutes
* 7:00 pm to 10:00 pm - Every 7-8 minutes
* 10:00 pm to 2:30 am - Every 10 minutes

Sunday
* 7:00 am to 9:00 am - Every 10 minutes
* 9:00 am to 11:00 am - Every 7-8 minutes
* 11:00 am to 6:00 pm - Every 5 minutes
* 6:00 pm to 10:00 pm - Every 7-8 minutes
* 10:00 pm to 12:30 am - Every 10 minutes

In Phase 2, here is how I would do it:

Monday to Friday
* 5:30 am to 6:30 am - Every 5 minutes (10 on branches)
* 6:30 am to 9:30 am - Every 2-3 minutes (5 on branches)
* 9:30 am to 3:00 pm - Every 3-4 minutes (7-8 on branches)
* 3:00 pm to 6:00 pm - Every 2-3 minutes (5 on branches)
* 6:00 pm to 10:00 pm - Every 5 minutes (10 on branches)
* 10:00 pm to 12:30 am - Every 7-8 minutes (15 on branches)
* 12:30 am to 2:30 am - Every 7-8 minutes (15 on branches) (Friday only)

Saturday
* 7:00 am to 9:00 am - Every 6 minutes (12 on branches)
* 9:00 am to 7:00 pm - Every 4 minutes (8 on branches)
* 7:00 pm to 10:00 pm - Every 6 minutes (12 on branches)
* 10:00 pm to 2:30 am - Every 7-8 minutes (15 on branches)

Sunday
* 7:00 am to 9:00 am - Every 7-8 minutes (15 on branches)
* 9:00 am to 11:00 am - Every 6 minutes (12 on branches)
* 11:00 am to 6:00 pm - Every 4 minutes (8 on branches)
* 6:00 pm to 10:00 pm - Every 6 minutes (12 on branches)
* 10:00 pm to 12:30 am - Every 7-8 minutes (15 on branches)

eternallyme · #**1676** Posted **Dec 14, 2014, 11:38 PM**

Seeing the construction progress, I know the original plan was to close the East Transitway in October 2015. But I think based on recent progress they need to move that up - either April or June 2015 (start of spring or summer bookings).

That would require redrawing some routes sooner than expected, and likely need to do consultations sooner as well.

Routes using the closed Transitway:

Express - 20, 21, 22, 27, 30, 31, 34, 35, 37, 38, 221, 231, 232
Other peak - 24, 192, 194, 199
Transitway routes - 94, 95, 96
Other local routes - 101, 114, 124, 126, 128, 129

How I would fit those routes after the change?

Express routes (20 to 38 except 24, 221, 231, 232) - All trips should operate via Nicholas/417. Non-stop to downtown beyond Blair Station; must transfer at Blair to reach other destinations

24, 94, 95, 101 and 199 - Most trips should operate via bus lanes on 417 to Riverside, serving St. Laurent, then detour to Hurdman. Some trips on all those routes should be converted to express during peak periods for a faster trip (see above) to downtown or western areas for the 101.

96 - Operate to St. Laurent (Blair during peak periods) via Tremblay to serve the VIA Rail station and area businesses without impacting passengers from Orleans. Those coming from the east would transfer to the 96 to go to the VIA station.

124, 126, 128, 129, 192 and 194 - Shorten to terminate at Blair (or St. Laurent for the 192) and avoid the closed Transitway.

114 - Shorten to terminate at St. Laurent, then consider an extension to the northern end of St. Laurent (i.e. Manor Park) replacing a shortened Route 7. The 7 would then be open to extend eastward into the CFB Rockcliffe lands when they open up.

Mr.Flintstone · #**1677** Posted **Dec 15, 2014, 3:45 PM**

Is there no plan to run the lrt 24 hours ?

1overcosc · #**1678** Posted **Dec 15, 2014, 3:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Flintstone

Is there no plan to run the lrt 24 hours ?

Not possible because the line needs to shut down to allow for cleaning and maintenance work. Almost all cities in the world with subways have to do this. New York is an exception, but that's because their subways have 4 tracks, which allow for overnight maintenance to be done on 2 tracks at time, leaving at least 2 open at all times.

OTSkyline · #**1679** Posted **Dec 15, 2014, 4:07 PM**

How will that work with no 24hr service? Seems like service ends at 2am on Saturday and doesn't start back until 8am on Sunday.

If I go out to the Byward Market on saturday night and get out of the bar at 2am, I am left with no option to go home? That is worst than the status-quo which at least has 95 and 97 serie busses go all through the night...

1overcosc · #**1680** Posted **Dec 15, 2014, 4:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

How will that work with no 24hr service? Seems like service ends at 2am on Saturday and doesn't start back until 8am on Sunday.

If I go out to the Byward Market on saturday night and get out of the bar at 2am, I am left with no option to go home? That is worst than the status-quo which at least has 95 and 97 serie busses go all through the night...

The actual end time will probably be closer to 2:30.

There will be a night bus replacing the Confederation Line during those overnight hours. Just like Toronto & Montreal do with their subway/metro.