Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[YOWflier]

YOW-FLL year-round is a nice development. Clearly there are many in the region with interest in SoFlo, be it due to owning property, enjoying it as a vacation destination, or accessing cruise ships. This service gives easy access to the entire area including Miami, Broward (Fort Lauderdale, Pompano, Boca, etc.), and Palm beach counties, including obviously the cruise ports of Fort Lauderdale and Miami.

I can't help but wonder how far away non-stop air service to Miami might be because of this development. I hope AA has taken notice.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I do have one personal anecdote about this that I can think of now.. by brother-in-law was travelling to Ottawa from Scotland. He booked a flight to YYZ because he found a really good deal, and he was deciding whether to book a flight from there to Ottawa, or take the train, and because of the prospect of having to cab or TTC across Toronto he chose YOW. But when I asked him, he said he would have chosen the train if UPX was available.

Until he saw the cost of UPX, which would likely negate much of his savings.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by phil235

Until he saw the cost of UPX, which would likely negate much of his savings.

He was looking at $55 for a train ticket versus $184 for a plane ticket, so a $27 UPX ticket wouldn't have changed much. Keep in mind that the cheap YOW-YYZ flights are mostly to Island Airport, not Pearson.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

He was looking at $55 for a train ticket versus $184 for a plane ticket, so a $27 UPX ticket wouldn't have changed much.

That's quite a deal on a train ticket. You can't usually go to Toronto for anywhere under 100.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by phil235

That's quite a deal on a train ticket. You can't usually go to Toronto for anywhere under 100.

Uh, what? It's very, very easy to get Ottawa-Toronto VIA tickets for under $100. If you book at least a month in advance you can almost always get less than $50. Over $100 only happens if you want business class, or a very last minute ticket, or want to pay the premium for a ticket you can exchange/refund without service fees.

For example, as of right now, if I wanted to travel to Toronto on the train that leaves in 5 minutes, I would have to pay $155 for the cheapest fare. But for tomorrow, I can get one for $85. For most days next week, the cheapest fare available is $98 for most trips. For next weekend, they're mostly at $85 with a few trips at $69 or $55. There's one on sale for next Sunday (December 21) for just $35. And for anytime in January or later they're almost all $35.

A lot of people don't realize just how affordable VIA is, and just how much cheaper it is to take the train over flying. Like, who ever heard of getting a Porter ticket for $35?

[Aylmer]

If you book before Sunday, a ticket to Toronto is $35 (Now that I think of it, that means that, if you're at Union, it's the same price to get to Ottawa than it is to get to Pearson.)

Book a week in advance and VIA is very affordable. Now if only the normal $40 discount fare was the baseline...

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Uh, what? It's very, very easy to get Ottawa-Toronto VIA tickets for under $100. If you book at least a month in advance you can almost always get less than $50. Over $100 only happens if you want business class, or a very last minute ticket, or want to pay the premium for a ticket you can exchange/refund without service fees.

For example, as of right now, if I wanted to travel to Toronto on the train that leaves in 5 minutes, I would have to pay $155 for the cheapest fare. But for tomorrow, I can get one for $85. For most days next week, the cheapest fare available is $98 for most trips. For next weekend, they're mostly at $85 with a few trips at $69 or $55. There's one on sale for next Sunday (December 21) for just $35. And for anytime in January or later they're almost all $35.

A lot of people don't realize just how affordable VIA is, and just how much cheaper it is to take the train over flying. Like, who ever heard of getting a Porter ticket for $35?

But for most international destinations the extra leg from Ottawa to Toronto has very little fare difference and the only extra cost is the tax (granted with Ottawa's rip off departure to pay for our cathedral like airport fee this might be about nearly as much as your cheap VIA fare)

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

But for most international destinations the extra leg from Ottawa to Toronto has very little fare difference and the only extra cost is the tax (granted with Ottawa's rip off departure to pay for our cathedral like airport fee this might be about nearly as much as your cheap VIA fare)

That's what I wasn't sure about. So booking, say, Ottawa-Toronto-Rome doesn't cost more than booking Toronto-Rome? That's awesome. In Kingston, adding a leg to Kingston Airport always causes the bill to shoot up by hundreds of dollars (people in Kingston are very excited about UPX for this reason. Air Canada is going to have stop doing this, or face a massive ridership drop on the route).

My thinking is that the VIA->UPX route is going to gain a little bit of popularity for those who booked a YYZ-Wherever itinerary because they found a good package deal or something from Toronto, and when faced with hundreds of dollars on a new booking from YOW to YYZ, will choose VIA-UPX. Like the aforementioned example of my brother-in-law, for example.

[MalcolmTucker]

It all depends on flights being near full or not, and which flight makes the profit.

From Ottawa, the flight being cost neutral is reflective of both planes already flying, so an extra customer is just gravy. From Kingston, the seat volume is low enough that they are likely counting on each seat to make the flight viable. Used to be able to do the math that could justify this, maybe a decade ago.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Uh, what? It's very, very easy to get Ottawa-Toronto VIA tickets for under $100. If you book at least a month in advance you can almost always get less than $50. Over $100 only happens if you want business class, or a very last minute ticket, or want to pay the premium for a ticket you can exchange/refund without service fees.

For example, as of right now, if I wanted to travel to Toronto on the train that leaves in 5 minutes, I would have to pay $155 for the cheapest fare. But for tomorrow, I can get one for $85. For most days next week, the cheapest fare available is $98 for most trips. For next weekend, they're mostly at $85 with a few trips at $69 or $55. There's one on sale for next Sunday (December 21) for just $35. And for anytime in January or later they're almost all $35.

A lot of people don't realize just how affordable VIA is, and just how much cheaper it is to take the train over flying. Like, who ever heard of getting a Porter ticket for $35?

Sorry, I was thinking return. But those prices surprise me. But I haven't looked this year.

I still doubt that many people would take a four hour train ride to make a connection, but I suppose there might be a few.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

That's what I wasn't sure about. So booking, say, Ottawa-Toronto-Rome doesn't cost more than booking Toronto-Rome? That's awesome. In Kingston, adding a leg to Kingston Airport always causes the bill to shoot up by hundreds of dollars (people in Kingston are very excited about UPX for this reason. Air Canada is going to have stop doing this, or face a massive ridership drop on the route).

My thinking is that the VIA->UPX route is going to gain a little bit of popularity for those who booked a YYZ-Wherever itinerary because they found a good package deal or something from Toronto, and when faced with hundreds of dollars on a new booking from YOW to YYZ, will choose VIA-UPX. Like the aforementioned example of my brother-in-law, for example.

If it is Air Canada then they usually throw in the YOW-YYZ or YOW-YUL leg in for free (or pretty close to it) for an international flight. Other airlines vary but I would certainly try to throw in Ottawa into the international flight before I started looking at train options. There are other advantages to flying as well, including landing in the secure zone at YYZ, having luggage taken care of and having the airline do the rebooking of a leg is delayed (if your YOW-YYZ leg is on the same ticket and there is a delay they will rebook you - if you tell them you missed a connection because your train was late they will probably not be sympathetic).

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

My knowledge of federal government IT practices might not be up to snuff, but I know House of Commons only allows approved apps anyways.

Wouldn't most people carry a second phone for apps and personal activities anyways?

BB10 has separate work and personal modes. At least on a shared services canada blackberry you can install any app you want on the personal side.

Air Canada has a blackberry app, as do several travel related apps. Seems like a no brainer for YOW to port the app to blackberry given their clientele.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

It all depends on flights being near full or not, and which flight makes the profit.

From Ottawa, the flight being cost neutral is reflective of both planes already flying, so an extra customer is just gravy. From Kingston, the seat volume is low enough that they are likely counting on each seat to make the flight viable. Used to be able to do the math that could justify this, maybe a decade ago.

Interesting. I get that, but seeing as how most people who do fly YOW-YYZ or YOW-YUL are doing so to make a connection, wouldn't they have to charge something to at least cover the cost of running of the YOW-YYZ or YOW-YUL flights? I doubt there's enough passengers flying solely from Toronto to Ottawa to cover the cost.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by acottawa

If it is Air Canada then they usually throw in the YOW-YYZ or YOW-YUL leg in for free (or pretty close to it) for an international flight. Other airlines vary but I would certainly try to throw in Ottawa into the international flight before I started looking at train options. There are other advantages to flying as well, including landing in the secure zone at YYZ, having luggage taken care of and having the airline do the rebooking of a leg is delayed (if your YOW-YYZ leg is on the same ticket and there is a delay they will rebook you - if you tell them you missed a connection because your train was late they will probably not be sympathetic).

Oh I definitely get that, if you have the option to book from YOW almost everyone would especially if the YOW leg is thrown in for almost free. My thinking is those who found a really good sale or vacation package deal from YYZ that doesn't include a YOW leg might be more motivated to take the train to Pearson now instead of booking a whole separate YOW-YYZ itinerary.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by phil235

Sorry, I was thinking return. But those prices surprise me. But I haven't looked this year.

I still doubt that many people would take a four hour train ride to make a connection, but I suppose there might be a few.

VIA prices have dropped considerably in recent years. Ottawa-Montreal now regularly goes as low as $33, for example.

The current $35 price from Ottawa to Toronto is a special promotion, normally the starting price (almost always attainable if you book at least 3-4 weeks in advance) is $44.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It would certainly take more time, but given that Ottawa-Toronto train tickets are significantly cheaper than Ottawa-Toronto flights,

When booked on code-share flights etc, quite often a tag-on flight, such as YYZ-YOW is no more expensive than a Europe-YYZ flight. I've seen many times when a direct flight from a city in Europe (or Asia) to YYZ is *more* expensive than the same flight to YYZ with a connection flight to YOW.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

VIA prices have dropped considerably in recent years. Ottawa-Montreal now regularly goes as low as $33, for example.

The current $35 price from Ottawa to Toronto is a special promotion, normally the starting price (almost always attainable if you book at least 3-4 weeks in advance) is $44.

VIA switched to yield Pricing a few years ago and that's why the fares seem cheaper, it's just a computer trying to fill seats based on anticipated/historical demand and current sales.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Oh I definitely get that, if you have the option to book from YOW almost everyone would especially if the YOW leg is thrown in for almost free. My thinking is those who found a really good sale or vacation package deal from YYZ that doesn't include a YOW leg might be more motivated to take the train to Pearson now instead of booking a whole separate YOW-YYZ itinerary.

If they had a charter flight out of Toronto and WJ and AC were quoting high prices and Via was quoting a low price then that could make sense (assuming the extra time doesn't matter), particularly if they had downtown Toronto stuff to do. Of course if money a concern and time isn't then taking the TTC to the airport would save $50 compared to UPE on a return trip.

YOW-YYZ flights tend to run below capacity, so the marginal cost for Air Canada to put you on that flight is zero (well, maybe the cost of the pop and pretzels) and could entice you to buy an international flight, where they make their money.

[YOWflier]

Just for fun I assembled some data to show where one can fly to from Ottawa this winter (non-stop or direct). Maybe it'll help with someone's travels. Note that for sun destinations, my post on the next page provides a list of destinations, airline(s) serving them, and departure day(s) of the week.

Composite:



Domestic:



Transborder:



International:

[Norman Bates]

Nicely done. Thank you.