Transit Fantasies

[SOSS]

I'd like a line (Expo or Millennium extension from Waterfront) down Hastings through to Willingdon Ave (with key service points at Hastings Park and Kootenay Loop) then turn south with connections including Brentwood Town Centre, BCIT, to Metrotown.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I'm against a Hastings Line in any shape or form, but let's face it, it's not like it could get any uglier. I think it would look badass with a New York style elevated guideway though.

Why against it? Gentrification concerns?

[Canadian Mind]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I'm against a Hastings Line in any shape or form, but let's face it, it's not like it could get any uglier. I think it would look badass with a New York style elevated guideway though.

Why would you be against a Hastings line? The thing would be underground most of the way to Burnaby.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Canadian Mind

Why would you be against a Hastings line? The thing would be underground most of the way to Burnaby.

Right on, !!! I think a Hastings line is, or will be, a necessary piece of infrastructure, and Itll be underground until it gets out around the PNE
Thank you, CM

[MIPS]

A tunnel Waterfront to Boundary isn't really a good place, in part because of the soil conditions. SkyTrain stations were initially designed to operate with a small footprint so it doesn't hurt if ever 10-15 blocks we lose several buildings for a station. Not to mention that for part of the line you would have no choice but to hug the rail tracks and the container yard with no ability to go underground.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by MIPS

A tunnel Waterfront to Boundary isn't really a good place, in part because of the soil conditions. SkyTrain stations were initially designed to operate with a small footprint so it doesn't hurt if ever 10-15 blocks we lose several buildings for a station. Not to mention that for part of the line you would have no choice but to hug the rail tracks and the container yard with no ability to go underground.

Aha, you're thinking of a line that more or less parallells the waterfront, at surface leve
I was thing of a subterranean tunnel under Hastings itself.
Two different things altogether. I could go with your idea fine, my only real question being; if your line "parallels" the waterfront rail system,
WHERE are the station entrances themselves, and how do they access the Hastings line, in your schema?

[MIPS]

The major problem with running parallel to the tracks is that from Powell Street and the Cordova diversion until Victoria Drive you're in mixed industrial. Placing a station there right now means you would have to travel through these areas to reach the station/your destination which at night isn't really pleasant and it's likely that redevelopment will not happen for quite a while. We only just started redeveloping along Hastings. You could however rough-in a section of guideway for a station around the powell/woodland intersection, just in case.

From Victoria Drive and along Wall Street (or commissioner street, with walkway access, much like Sapperton) however you shouldn't have too much trouble running elevated guideways (or even at grade if space permits) to Bridgeway Street, then tunneling under Highway 1 to turn and emerge by the rail bridge where then you can cross to North Vancouver. You can't run elevated down Dundas as everyone will have a fit but you shouldn't really need a station in Gastown due to the proximity of Stadium and Waterfront (but if you want one to serve a corner of the region, I don;t think it would be a problem to have a station near the Heatley/Alexander intersection)

What you lose in station choice ("should I go to Station x, or Broadway/Renfrew?") you gain in overall accessibility of rapid transit. Joyce station for example is several blocks away from Kingsway but people are still willing to travel to it.



Okay, so the red line and black dots are the Expo Line and its stations.

The green line is my proposed elevated line with the tunnel under Highway 1, the blue line is the option of running along Commissioner street. The yellow line is a VERY rough idea of a tunnel under Hastings. The pink dots represent rough station locations (or a location for a future station). The only key place that will need a very close proximity station will be the PNE.

I feel though that not running elevated around the harbour would be a real shame.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Why against it? Gentrification concerns?

Yeah. There are a lot of cool music venues that I wouldn't want to be chased out by sterile condo developments.

[SOSS]

A route along the shoreline would not be nearly as successful as a route along Hastings. If you run it along the coastline you should just add a station to the WCE line.

[MIPS]

It just seems so ironic that a "Sky"Train runs through so many tunnels like a Subway.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by MIPS

It just seems so ironic that a "Sky"Train runs through so many tunnels like a Subway.

It is still majority elevated and if you take out the Canada Line it's about 90% elevated or at grade.

[SOSS]

I think its interesting how the mayors plan for new/ up-graded B-line service in the northshore duplicates my transit fantasy for the area.
1. Skytrain from West Vancouver through to Phibbs exchange then up to Capilano University.
2. Skytrain (Canada Line Extension) from Waterfront to Lower Lonsdale then through to Lynn Valley.

[MIPS]

A major station like Waterfront or Broadway or Metrotown needs to have a dynamic system overview as something like an art piece or something describing how the system is automated (or its history) and what the system looks like to the computer. They have something similar outside the control room at the OMC but it's not publically accessible.


Image courtesy of "SkyTrainForSurrey"; NC SA

It's entirely redundant, given how we have a train pull in every minute or two but it looks cool.
Look at the sculpture at 401 Burrard. the grey boxes move up and down in sync with the elevators inside the building.

End to end it's probably about 12 feet long and stretches across several LCD panels but I'm assuming the reason why no such idea has already been done is the fear that someone could watch the display and relay train locations to people doing god knows what on the system.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by MIPS

A major station like Waterfront or Broadway or Metrotown needs to have a dynamic system overview as something like an art piece or something describing how the system is automated (or its history) and what the system looks like to the computer. They have something similar outside the control room at the OMC but it's not publically accessible.


Image courtesy of "SkyTrainForSurrey"; NC SA

It's entirely redundant, given how we have a train pull in every minute or two but it looks cool.
Look at the sculpture at 401 Burrard. the grey boxes move up and down in sync with the elevators inside the building.

End to end it's probably about 12 feet long and stretches across several LCD panels but I'm assuming the reason why no such idea has already been done is the fear that someone could watch the display and relay train locations to people doing god knows what on the system.

Translink could have an "Art" display that uses a content-minimized version of it. Like what you do is get vector images of the trains and a vector map, and just show the train cars as blocks moving in real time between the stations but cycle through them so that only the trains arriving or departing the station will be shown constantly on the Art display. When any train is more than 30 seconds away, show where all the other trains are (unlabeled.)

For security reasons, it probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense for someone to try and do something to the skytrain system. The automated nature of it means it's actually safer than having a driver. At least from the train's perspective. People are another thing entirely. Someone standing there relaying the position of trains to someone else on their cell phone would draw attention.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by MIPS

A major station like Waterfront or Broadway or Metrotown needs to have a dynamic system overview as something like an art piece or something describing how the system is automated (or its history) and what the system looks like to the computer. They have something similar outside the control room at the OMC but it's not publically accessible.


Image courtesy of "SkyTrainForSurrey"; NC SA

It's entirely redundant, given how we have a train pull in every minute or two but it looks cool.
Look at the sculpture at 401 Burrard. the grey boxes move up and down in sync with the elevators inside the building.

End to end it's probably about 12 feet long and stretches across several LCD panels but I'm assuming the reason why no such idea has already been done is the fear that someone could watch the display and relay train locations to people doing god knows what on the system.

I asked the president of SkyTrain on Twitter once about whether there would ever be a real-time position API for trains (like they have for buses), and he said that it's unlikely due to security concerns. He did say that the stations would be updated at some point with Canada Line-style signs indicating times until the next train.
Although there is a web interface for staff that shows that mimic diagram (although not always accurately), which is fed data from the control centre computers.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by dpogue

he said that it's unlikely due to security concerns.

Typical. Gotta always play the "what-if Scenario", even if it makes everything boring.


The idea would of probably been brilliant back in '86 but god forbid you considered it now.
If you want to be defiant about people trying to damage your infrastructure or reputation you don't do things "for the sake of security". If anything, that gives them what they want to hear: You're paranoid and fear any of their potential actions.

[MIPS]

Six door MK I's existed.

Image courtesy of TransLink
I guess this explains why one of the test vehicles and one half of the two-car prototype went missing...

We need these. Order as many as we can afford.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Six door MK I's existed.

Not to be pedantic, but I think it can be argued that while this test vehicle may have been made from Mk I's, it was in fact a model that was unique unto itself.

[MIPS]

Shhhh. This whole thread is a place to dream.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Six door MK I's existed.

Image courtesy of TransLink
I guess this explains why one of the test vehicles and one half of the two-car prototype went missing...

We need these. Order as many as we can afford.

Here's where another Test Vehicle wound up.
http://www.news1130.com/2012/06/08/skytrain-prototype-car-awaits-new-home/