Highways in Canada

[ssiguy]

Yes there have been many good upgrades to Vancouver's highway system but it's still the worst in the country.

The Port Mann, Golden Ears, and soon new Pattula and George Massey will all be tolled roads allowing just one bridge over the Fraser toll free. The SFPR will NEVER be brought up to full freeway standard, hell it's been 20 years until they finally have agreed on one interchange on Delta to bring 91 up to freeway standard.

Yes there has been a lot of improvement but it started so far behind that it still isn't even close to catching up. Also the SFPR is only partly freeway and most is just an ordinary 4 lane road, nothing more. Vancouver has done a great job in transit infrastructure over the last 30 years but it's highway system is a disaster, just less so than it use to be.

While I don't like the idea of freeways ripping up neighbourhoods in urban areas, Vancouver still made a huge mistake by not connecting downtown to HWY#1 with a freeway and not making Boundary a freeway from HWY #! to a bridge over the Fraser to Richmond. Right now getting from YVR/Richmond to the North Shore is an impossibility.

The city is very liveable but it's no highways mantra has led it to have one of the longest commutes in NA which is remarkable for a metro that isn't even in the top 20 in population.

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Yes there have been many good upgrades to Vancouver's highway system but it's still the worst in the country.

The Port Mann, Golden Ears, and soon new Pattula and George Massey will all be tolled roads allowing just one bridge over the Fraser toll free. The SFPR will NEVER be brought up to full freeway standard, hell it's been 20 years until they finally have agreed on one interchange on Delta to bring 91 up to freeway standard.

Yes there has been a lot of improvement but it started so far behind that it still isn't even close to catching up. Also the SFPR is only partly freeway and most is just an ordinary 4 lane road, nothing more. Vancouver has done a great job in transit infrastructure over the last 30 years but it's highway system is a disaster, just less so than it use to be.

While I don't like the idea of freeways ripping up neighbourhoods in urban areas, Vancouver still made a huge mistake by not connecting downtown to HWY#1 with a freeway and not making Boundary a freeway from HWY #! to a bridge over the Fraser to Richmond. Right now getting from YVR/Richmond to the North Shore is an impossibility.

The city is very liveable but it's no highways mantra has led it to have one of the longest commutes in NA which is remarkable for a metro that isn't even in the top 20 in population.

There have certainly been many upgrades, especially over the last decade, but what I've noticed is that while there have been many projects, the design standards have been decreasing over time. I assume it's to save money so there can be more projects overall. Comparing the SFPR to 91, it is fairly clear that 91 was built to a higher standard (especially for the time; highway standards are constantly increasing). Going back further, it's clear that 99 and highway 1 were built to a higher standard than 91.
You can see the same thing in the interior. The Coq. and 97c were built to a higher standard than the upgraded section of the Trans Canada east of Golden.

Seems that up to the late 80's/early 90's, new construction was done to proper freeway standards. In the 90's, little was done at all, but what was done is to a somewhat lower standard. And since the early 2000's, lots of upgrades have happened, but they've cheaped out a bit in order to play catch up with the massive infrastructure deficit in the province.

I've always found that the area around Vancouver (not the core itself) feels smaller than comparably sized cities, due to the lack of major freeways.

[dmuzika]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Yes there have been many good upgrades to Vancouver's highway system but it's still the worst in the country.

The Port Mann, Golden Ears, and soon new Pattula and George Massey will all be tolled roads allowing just one bridge over the Fraser toll free. The SFPR will NEVER be brought up to full freeway standard, hell it's been 20 years until they finally have agreed on one interchange on Delta to bring 91 up to freeway standard.

Yes there has been a lot of improvement but it started so far behind that it still isn't even close to catching up. Also the SFPR is only partly freeway and most is just an ordinary 4 lane road, nothing more. Vancouver has done a great job in transit infrastructure over the last 30 years but it's highway system is a disaster, just less so than it use to be.

While I don't like the idea of freeways ripping up neighbourhoods in urban areas, Vancouver still made a huge mistake by not connecting downtown to HWY#1 with a freeway and not making Boundary a freeway from HWY #! to a bridge over the Fraser to Richmond. Right now getting from YVR/Richmond to the North Shore is an impossibility.

The city is very liveable but it's no highways mantra has led it to have one of the longest commutes in NA which is remarkable for a metro that isn't even in the top 20 in population.

I like the idea of a Boundary north-south freeway, probably more of a possibility than Knight/Clark. Right now, are there any possible routes that could connect downtown with Hwy 1? Even if it's minimal traffic lights instead of a freeway.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Yes there have been many good upgrades to Vancouver's highway system but it's still the worst in the country.

The Port Mann, Golden Ears, and soon new Pattula and George Massey will all be tolled roads allowing just one bridge over the Fraser toll free. The SFPR will NEVER be brought up to full freeway standard, hell it's been 20 years until they finally have agreed on one interchange on Delta to bring 91 up to freeway standard.

Yes there has been a lot of improvement but it started so far behind that it still isn't even close to catching up. Also the SFPR is only partly freeway and most is just an ordinary 4 lane road, nothing more. Vancouver has done a great job in transit infrastructure over the last 30 years but it's highway system is a disaster, just less so than it use to be.

While I don't like the idea of freeways ripping up neighbourhoods in urban areas, Vancouver still made a huge mistake by not connecting downtown to HWY#1 with a freeway and not making Boundary a freeway from HWY #! to a bridge over the Fraser to Richmond. Right now getting from YVR/Richmond to the North Shore is an impossibility.

The city is very liveable but it's no highways mantra has led it to have one of the longest commutes in NA which is remarkable for a metro that isn't even in the top 20 in population.

Agreed. Vancouver's highway system is abysmal. The "livability" issue of having no freeways is also a bit of a red herring, since a lot of inner city neighbourhoods in Vancouver have been degraded by directing a lot of through traffic onto local, inner city roads. The most obvious example, of course, is the volume of truck traffic on Knight accessing the port, but also taking former residential side streets like 12th Avenue and turning them into arterial roads with very narrow lanes did almost nobody any favours.

[osirisboy]

Exactly!! Having no freeways didn't help with increasing the livability of neighbourhoods. I wish vancouver can get over this bizarre fear of freeways. Basically all main streets have become major thoroughfares. Great example as stated above is 12th ave. try walking down it it's horriblle!

I've said this before. I'll say it again. Turn 1st ave into a D'carrie type freeway linking the 1 to the viaducts. (That would help McGill, hastings, broadway return to more local streets). Then turning boundary from hwy 1 down to knight bridge into something. To get truck traffic from port out of neighbourhoods! Obviously this will never happen.

Maybe when the day comes when vehicles are zero emissions will vancouver get over its anti road mindset

[libtard]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

And due to Vancouver proper's massive hatred towards limited access roadways and their "no new lanes into Vancouver" policy, it will never change...for Vancouver proper.

Metro Vancouver on the other hand has had massive improvements and honestly, the #1 from the Second Narrows bridge to 200th street in Langley is as good as anything in Eastern Canada IMO (some will say it isn't, but I feel those forum members are people where no matter what BC builds they will always rag on it).

Also the new Pitt River bridge and interchange has been a great improvement.

The entire Golden Ears Bridge and GEW is amazing IMO (very Asian feel).

Despite some of its set backs, the SFPR is a great addition, and I have a feeling that those intersections will be upgraded to interchanges soon, there are already rumblings happening about that within the new proposed 10 year plan.

As for the Massey Tunnel, word is an 8 lane bridge will replace it along with much of the 99 being upgraded.

Also I believe the 72nd traffic light on the 91 will be upgraded to an interchange very soon, the city and the province have come to an understanding.

Also a 150 million dollar upgrade to the #1 on the north side of the Second Narrows is also getting underway next year with its first phase.

There have been many other small projects including new overpasses (such as the Coast Meridian) and interchanges (new 16th Ave interchange on the 99 in White Rock), etc...

Also don't forget the Patullo is going to be replaced soon as well (and when it does the section of the SFPR that it will interact with will be fully completed).

Also many large overpasses (mostly in Langley) were built as part of the Robert Banks rail project.

And then Lower Road in North Van has been completely changed / rebuilt.

Metro Vancouver's roads and highways have had a massive upgrade in the last 10 years, and it looks as if it will continue (well, everywhere except Vancouver proper).

And then there are all the major twinning projects happening throughout the province.

Without a Federal Highway system it is difficult to build a great highway network in the most mountainous province in Canada (not too mention massive rivers, canyons, inlets, and having 700 000 off the mainland).

As good as anything in eastern Canada? You're including the 407 in that comparison? You're honestly out to lunch. Your claim is absolutely ridiculous. The new portion of the #1 in Vancouver already has dips and bumps in the pavement from settling of the soil beneath the road (improper grading), the line markings are worn off the road, and the cement dividers in the middle are jersey (strung together), not cast in place. The 407 has none of these problems. Also Japan's GDP has contracted for 2 quarters in a row technically putting it in a recession.

[libtard]

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

There have certainly been many upgrades, especially over the last decade, but what I've noticed is that while there have been many projects, the design standards have been decreasing over time. I assume it's to save money so there can be more projects overall. Comparing the SFPR to 91, it is fairly clear that 91 was built to a higher standard (especially for the time; highway standards are constantly increasing). Going back further, it's clear that 99 and highway 1 were built to a higher standard than 91.
You can see the same thing in the interior. The Coq. and 97c were built to a higher standard than the upgraded section of the Trans Canada east of Golden.

Seems that up to the late 80's/early 90's, new construction was done to proper freeway standards. In the 90's, little was done at all, but what was done is to a somewhat lower standard. And since the early 2000's, lots of upgrades have happened, but they've cheaped out a bit in order to play catch up with the massive infrastructure deficit in the province.

I've always found that the area around Vancouver (not the core itself) feels smaller than comparably sized cities, due to the lack of major freeways.

This is completely true. The design standards of the new SFPR are mickey mouse. Everything about it screams CHEAP.

[MolsonExport]

I remember the Pitt River bridge when it was a one-point-five-lane swing bridge. I shit ye not. You'd get grey hairs waiting to cross. Like the Massey tunnel (I lived in Richmond [Steveston] for 4 years, plus a couple of years in Vancouver downtown).

[ssiguy]

In my area, White Rock/ South Surrey, there are 2 key roads.......King George and 152nd Street.

The area has 85,000 people and is one of the fastest growing areas in Metro Vancouver. King George is a major highway and connects the area to the rest of Surrey. The road goes from 4 lanes to 3 lanes to 2 lanes to 4 lanes to 2 lanes to 4 lanes and back to 2 lanes all within a 2km stretch. I kid you not, it's bizarre.

Vancouver has a very de-centralized employment area and none of the largest employers in the city are downtown yet the downtown population is high so you get a lot of reverse commuting. HWY #99 {which includes the George Massey tunnel} is nearly as busy in each direction during rush hour. The tunnel carries over 100,000 vehicles per day including a lot of transport traffic as it is the gateway to the International Transport Port, the Twassen terminal to Vancouver Island, it is the main route to the US/Seattle and yet in rush hour going north the road has 5 busy lanes merging into one...........you couldn't make this stuff up.

The South Fraser Perimeter Road which just opened with much fanfare was built on the cheap and many sections do not have curving inclines near turning areas and as a result the road is constantly seeing transport trucks flip on their side. The province calls it a "limited speed expressway" but it has 8 traffic lights on it. The widened HWY#1 goes from 5 lanes down to 2 after Langley and hence backs up despite 275,000 living just east of Langley to Hope and it is the only route for all traffic going to the Interior and Alberta and is a very heavy transport route.

Transport trucks regularly use side roads {which legally they are not suppose to do} to avoid the horrible connections from HWY #99 to Langley/Abbotsford. The new Massey Bridge is suppose to relieve the situation but will come with very heavy tolls which people will avoid especially as a new Pattula is also going to be built..........they are replacing the aging 4 lane Pattula with a new 4 lanes Pattula but will have tolls. The tolls are very stiff for all and god help you if you are in a transport........$10 one way just to cross the half km Port Mann Bridge.

[FrAnKs]

Me driving in Halifax last summer. I've rarely been to English canada in the last years and it was really fun !
I'm starting near Halifax airport on highway 102, ending on Bayers road at the end.
I liked how Nova-Scotians are driving. They looked very careful and respectful all the time. It seemed very different than Ontario !
• Video Link
Btw, could someone tell me the song playing at 11:32 ?

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by libtard

As good as anything in eastern Canada? You're including the 407 in that comparison? You're honestly out to lunch. Your claim is absolutely ridiculous. The new portion of the #1 in Vancouver already has dips and bumps in the pavement from settling of the soil beneath the road (improper grading), the line markings are worn off the road, and the cement dividers in the middle are jersey (strung together), not cast in place. The 407 has none of these problems. Also Japan's GDP has contracted for 2 quarters in a row technically putting it in a recession.

Oh Libtard, you belong in a tree because you are a nut!

You and those old jersey barriers, so strange that there was a former forum member that was just as obsessed with jersey barriers as you are, and yet he was banned... twice!

Many of the new barriers, especially through Burnaby, are cast in place as part of the new highway upgrade. Also you never seen to complain about all the other places in the world using jersey barriers...only BC for some reason, hmm....

So line markings are never faded elsewhere in Canada. Thats strange, because when I look on Google Earth (and from my own personal driving experiences) I find on average that lane markings are more faded throughout Canada than they are on the south coast of BC, especially in the spring after winter....but you will never admit that of course!

And what does Japan's GDP have to do about this conversation? You think saying that will make me angry or sad or something? Quite an odd comment really.

Also classic hyperboles from ssiguy about BC. (He is known for this regarding BC's economy, population stats, and the Canada Line).

Perfect example here:

$10 one way just to cross the half km Port Mann Bridge.

Since when did the Port Mann reduce its length by 1.6 km? Last time I checked it is a 2.1 KM long bridge, and the world's 2nd widest...

PS, for your area, I noticed you included King George and 152nd street, but forgot to mention highway 99 (a 4 lane freeway), highway 15 (4 lanes), highway 10 (4 lanes east / west), and if you want to stretch it, highway 91 (4 lane freeway).

Hmm, now you will arbitrarily say those roads are too far east / north / west for the region you were talking about, if that is so then the population that King George and 152nd serve in that area is no where near 85 000. It is much closer to 30 000, or even less (White Rock is only around 19 000). And the 99 still goes through the heart of that area.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by dmuzika

I like the idea of a Boundary north-south freeway, probably more of a possibility than Knight/Clark. Right now, are there any possible routes that could connect downtown with Hwy 1? Even if it's minimal traffic lights instead of a freeway.

I would say a north / south highway is more needed in Vancouver than an east / west one. Highway 1 has an almost direct access to the ports from the McGill interchange, so very little freight traffic goes east / west compared to north / south.

My pipe dream is for Knight to be upgraded into a freeway full length and a new 6 lanes crossing to be built to the North Shore from this route. (at the same time the Lion's Gate could be closed to general traffic. Sadly, with Vision and their war on the car this will never happen. Luckily it looks like improvements will continue in the rest of the metro.

[Dirt_Devil]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

Me driving in Halifax last summer. I've rarely been to English canada in the last years and it was really fun !
I'm starting near Halifax airport on highway 102, ending on Bayers road at the end.
I liked how Nova-Scotians are driving. They looked very careful and respectful all the time. It seemed very different than Ontario !
• Video Link
Btw, could someone tell me the song playing at 11:32 ?

Nice video. Reminds me of last month when I was in Halifax visiting a friend. He lives down in Bayers Lake, on Washmill Lake Drive near Dunbrack.

I've only driven once to Halifax. Also got to visit Fredericton, Saint John and Moncton on my way there. I prefer flying though. YQB-YUL-YHZ is done in 3 hours.

[dmuzika]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

In my area, White Rock/ South Surrey, there are 2 key roads.......King George and 152nd Street.

The area has 85,000 people and is one of the fastest growing areas in Metro Vancouver. King George is a major highway and connects the area to the rest of Surrey. The road goes from 4 lanes to 3 lanes to 2 lanes to 4 lanes to 2 lanes to 4 lanes and back to 2 lanes all within a 2km stretch. I kid you not, it's bizarre.

With the Hwy 99A designation being removed from King George Hwy/Blvd, and the assumed transfer from the province to the City of Surrey, would that be a positive or negative in terms of road improvements?

[libtard]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Oh Libtard, you belong in a tree because you are a nut!

You and those old jersey barriers, so strange that there was a former forum member that was just as obsessed with jersey barriers as you are, and yet he was banned... twice!

Many of the new barriers, especially through Burnaby, are cast in place as part of the new highway upgrade. Also you never seen to complain about all the other places in the world using jersey barriers...only BC for some reason, hmm....

So line markings are never faded elsewhere in Canada. Thats strange, because when I look on Google Earth (and from my own personal driving experiences) I find on average that lane markings are more faded throughout Canada than they are on the south coast of BC, especially in the spring after winter....but you will never admit that of course!

And what does Japan's GDP have to do about this conversation? You think saying that will make me angry or sad or something? Quite an odd comment really.

Also classic hyperboles from ssiguy about BC. (He is known for this regarding BC's economy, population stats, and the Canada Line).

Perfect example here:



Since when did the Port Mann reduce its length by 1.6 km? Last time I checked it is a 2.1 KM long bridge, and the world's 2nd widest...

PS, for your area, I noticed you included King George and 152nd street, but forgot to mention highway 99 (a 4 lane freeway), highway 15 (4 lanes), highway 10 (4 lanes east / west), and if you want to stretch it, highway 91 (4 lane freeway).

Hmm, now you will arbitrarily say those roads are too far east / north / west for the region you were talking about, if that is so then the population that King George and 152nd serve in that area is no where near 85 000. It is much closer to 30 000, or even less (White Rock is only around 19 000). And the 99 still goes through the heart of that area.

You're a troll. You pop up in every highway related thread preaching the same tired list of transportation projects throughout BC. Literally you say the same argument every time you post. Every province has projects in progress but for some reason you think BC's are infinitely better and need to be brought up every day.

[ssiguy]

Sorry but WR/SS has about 85,000........clearly you haven't been down here for a while. Cineplex Odeon is beginning construction on a huge new movie complex in a place that already has a fourplex.

You can talk all you want but BC and Vancouver specifically has the nation's worst freeway network and there is no excuse for the poor roads of the Lower Mainland as most of it is flat or gently rolling. It's not called the Fraser VALLEY for nothing.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by libtard

You're a troll. You pop up in every highway related thread preaching the same tired list of transportation projects throughout BC. Literally you say the same argument every time you post. Every province has projects in progress but for some reason you think BC's are infinitely better and need to be brought up every day.

I'm a troll, really? You keep blasting BC over the most trivial highway aspects (which can be found in most provinces / states), you never say anything positive about any highway improvements, and you use hyperboles as if they are going out of style.

And you have been banned twice before.

Also you did not directly answer or respond to any of my points. You also take it upon yourself to blast BC highways on any potential road related thread. Pretty funny if you ask me.

Is Ontario's highway system better than BC's, yes, does the BC highway system need to improve, yes, is the BC highway system far from perfect, yes, is it the third world disaster you paint it as, no.

And then you try to instigate me with an of topic comment about Japan, who is the troll here?

Yes ssiguy, I do know that the area is around 85 000, but the two routes you only listed serve an area of much less than that, South Surrey does also include the 99, highways 15, highway 10, etc...

That was my point. The area that is only served by King George and 152 is only a small portion of South West Surrey and White Rock (and again, you forgot to mention the 4 lane freeway 99 which cuts directly through that area).

[SOSS]

BC Highways are in pretty good shape considering a few major factors:
-> Historically a lot of federal funding has gone east to Ontario and Quebec
-> BC has some of the most difficult terrain in the world to traverse. Money can't just be spent around Metro Vancouver. Funds are needed to improve Highway 1, 5, 97, 3 etc.
-> Major expansions in the 80s like the Coquihalla Highway and 97C were built to higher freeway standards partly because they don't transverse farmland.
-> The SFPR was built to a slower standard to find balance between the environment and transport needs. It's considerably windier than first envisioned to reduce the impact on farmland (BC has a very, very limited amount of arable land - we need to protect it) and on Burns Bog - Mother Nature's water filter.
-> You can't build your way out of congestion and if you build it - people will use it. Build roads, they get used. Build mass transit, they will use it.
-> Metro Vancouver has some of the highest housing prices in the world. People are willing to travel some major distances to commute so that they can still have a single detached home.

[GreaterMontréal]

Historically a lot of federal funding has gone east to Ontario and Quebec

are you talking about the transcanadian highway ?

BC needs to have a network of expressways, like the Autoroute system in Quebec or the 400-Series Highways in Ontario. I agree that BC is not flat, but downtown Vancouver should have been made accessible via an expressway. still possible to build it

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

are you talking about the transcanadian highway ?

BC needs to have a network of expressways, like the Autoroute system in Quebec or the 400-Series Highways in Ontario. I agree that BC is not flat, but downtown Vancouver should have been made accessible via an expressway. still possible to build it

Not just the transcanada highway but also funds that went to the Autoroute system in Quebec and the 400 Series in Ontario.

Building an expressway into downtown Vancouver will thankfully never be built, doesn't need to be built, and if it was built it wouldn't solve anything. That thinking died decades ago. Give people good alternatives and they'll use them and leave their cars at home. Or better yet, not even buy cars and will rent when needed. Canada Line = 10 lane expressway from YVR to downtown. Why on earth would you want to carve an actual expressway downtown? That traffic in queue to get to the northshore would be heavily alleviated by a proper mass transit system servicing the north shore.

More and more people are also telecommuting and living closer to their work in the many town centres that have been created in Metro Van. Downtown proper is not the end all be all of Vancouver.

The cost of building an expressway to the downtown between land aquisitions and actual construction would probably be the equivalent to another 2 or more RRT lines downtown.