PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

Just another greasy spoon. I know - its got character and the locals and late night servers and bartenders and 21 yr olds love it at 3am piss drunk, but yeah - build the damn hotel.

As the article indicates, it's not Little Pete's that's driving, or in this case delaying, this train.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

As the article indicates, it's not Little Pete's that's driving, or in this case delaying, this train.

No shit - just providing a visual for the guy who wasn't familiar.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

No shit - just providing a visual for the guy who wasn't familiar.

Yeah, but in the meantime, you made me hungry.

[Outta here]

Originally Posted by summersm343

You do understand they would be moving into new construction, right? Not an existing building. The exact reason they are leaving Cherry Hill is because their current digs are outdated.

They want brand new construction. Whether they locate to the Campbells site in a build to suit new construction building or elsewhere in Camden, there is PLENTY of space in new construction.

Whoa there big guy , I'm not trying to start another un-declaired war on what we know or don't know .

My former posts were merely a snap shot of personal opinion . Subaru has been in Cherry Hill township for longer than it took NASA's Kepler discovery of a earth sized planet in the habitable zone of another star .

I ( admittedly ) don't know enough about Subaru's intentions or of a location
inside the city limits of Camden that would suit there 500 plus employees needs or desire to relocate to the 1st. , 2nd. , or 3rd. most dangerous city in the country . ( depending upon what list you read ).

Once again , if I had to guess , I believe Subaru will stay in Cherry Hill . There are already enough suitable
locations to accommodate their growing needs in that township . I have no idea how pressing an issue it is
for that company to " get everyone under one roof " . But , if size matters .... Mt. Laurel or stay put .

So barring any inside information , I think they will stay in that area .

[josef]

Originally Posted by Outta here

Subaru has been in Cherry Hill township for longer than it took NASA's Kepler discovery of a earth sized planet in the habitable zone of another star .

This is possibly the best comparison of one time frame to another that I've ever seen.

Originally Posted by Outta here

I ( admittedly ) don't know enough about Subaru's intentions or of a location
inside the city limits of Camden that would suit there 500 plus employees needs or desire to relocate to the 1st. , 2nd. , or 3rd. most dangerous city in the country . ( depending upon what list you read ).

Once again , if I had to guess , I believe Subaru will stay in Cherry Hill . There are already enough suitable
locations to accommodate their growing needs in that township . I have no idea how pressing an issue it is
for that company to " get everyone under one roof " . But , if size matters .... Mt. Laurel or stay put .

So barring any inside information , I think they will stay in that area .

So, the GrowNJ bill from last year specifically included language for a an automobile headquarters so they basically engineered it to take care of Subaru moving to the city:

...in June, when the state Senate's Budget and Appropriations Committee amended the bill, it added a line defining "a priority area housing the United States headquarters and related facilities of an automobile manufacturer" as a "mega project" eligible for extra tax credits on its corporate tax bill.

You can read more at http://articles.philly.com/2013-09-02/news/41665235_1_subaru-tax-incentives-norcross


You should check out Brandywine's plans for the area though, they're pretty:

http://www.architectmagazine.com/project...district-vision-and-marketing-plan/3909/

http://www.campbellsoupcompany.com/newsr...ation-coming-to-camdens-gateway-district

[br323206]

Originally Posted by Outta here

Whoa there big guy , I'm not trying to start another un-declaired war on what we know or don't know .

My former posts were merely a snap shot of personal opinion . Subaru has been in Cherry Hill township for longer than it took NASA's Kepler discovery of a earth sized planet in the habitable zone of another star .

I ( admittedly ) don't know enough about Subaru's intentions or of a location
inside the city limits of Camden that would suit there 500 plus employees needs or desire to relocate to the 1st. , 2nd. , or 3rd. most dangerous city in the country . ( depending upon what list you read ).

Once again , if I had to guess , I believe Subaru will stay in Cherry Hill . There are already enough suitable
locations to accommodate their growing needs in that township . I have no idea how pressing an issue it is
for that company to " get everyone under one roof " . But , if size matters .... Mt. Laurel or stay put .

So barring any inside information , I think they will stay in that area .

Just want to point out that comparing crime rates between cities is an impossible task that no one should ever try to undertake. The only reason to do it is to get a rise out of people and sell advertising. City boundaries are so irregular that no meaningful comparison can be made. Camden is about 10 square miles. Atlanta is 132 square miles and much of that area is actually what most people would refer to as suburbs. Statistics tell me that Camden is more dangerous than Atlanta but if Camden annexed all of Camden County its crime rate would plummet and it would be more comparable in area to the City of Atlanta.

The same goes for population comparisons. Philly has 1.6 million people. Houston has 2.1 million. But is Houston a "bigger" city than Philly? Not at all. Houston's number is so large because it has annexed so many suburbs and has a whopping 600 square miles in its borders. Philly, at 134 square miles, is more than three times as dense. If we were the same size (geographically) as Houston we'd have annexed Trenton or Wilmington by now.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Outta here

Whoa there big guy , I'm not trying to start another un-declaired war on what we know or don't know .

My former posts were merely a snap shot of personal opinion . Subaru has been in Cherry Hill township for longer than it took NASA's Kepler discovery of a earth sized planet in the habitable zone of another star .

I ( admittedly ) don't know enough about Subaru's intentions or of a location
inside the city limits of Camden that would suit there 500 plus employees needs or desire to relocate to the 1st. , 2nd. , or 3rd. most dangerous city in the country . ( depending upon what list you read ).

Once again , if I had to guess , I believe Subaru will stay in Cherry Hill . There are already enough suitable
locations to accommodate their growing needs in that township . I have no idea how pressing an issue it is
for that company to " get everyone under one roof " . But , if size matters .... Mt. Laurel or stay put .

So barring any inside information , I think they will stay in that area .

This is such a bizarre post, you basically admit that you have know idea what you're talking about--yet write with such bravado--calling out summersm and making declarations that fly in the face of every news story that's out there. Everyone in the entire market knows that Subaru has been looking to relocate out of their offices for years--all sources suggesting either Camden or the Navy Yard.

Then over the last few days, we read at Philly.com, Philly Mag, CBS Philly that the move to Camden is basically a done deal....? On top of that, I don't why it's so hard to believe, they are going to get millions and millions of dollars in free money.

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by Londonee

This is such a bizarre post, you basically admit that you have know idea what you're talking about--yet write with such bravado--calling out summersm and making declarations that fly in the face of every news story that's out there. Everyone in the entire market knows that Subaru has been looking to relocate out of their offices for years--all sources suggesting either Camden or the Navy Yard.

Then over the last few days, we read at Philly.com, Philly Mag, CBS Philly that the move to Camden is basically a done deal....? On top of that, I don't why it's so hard to believe, they are going to get millions and millions of dollars in free money.

yes and probably only moving like 2-3 miles as the crow flies.

part of the new development by Campbells which will likely include a new PATCO stop

based on some info from people who would be in the know I think this is pretty close to a done deal; but until finalized I guess nothing is a done deal

for Philly it would be great to get in the city itself but on many fronts this may be the next best thing

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Outta here

Whoa there big guy , I'm not trying to start another un-declaired war on what we know or don't know .

My former posts were merely a snap shot of personal opinion . Subaru has been in Cherry Hill township for longer than it took NASA's Kepler discovery of a earth sized planet in the habitable zone of another star .

I ( admittedly ) don't know enough about Subaru's intentions or of a location
inside the city limits of Camden that would suit there 500 plus employees needs or desire to relocate to the 1st. , 2nd. , or 3rd. most dangerous city in the country . ( depending upon what list you read ).

Once again , if I had to guess , I believe Subaru will stay in Cherry Hill . There are already enough suitable
locations to accommodate their growing needs in that township . I have no idea how pressing an issue it is
for that company to " get everyone under one roof " . But , if size matters .... Mt. Laurel or stay put .

So barring any inside information , I think they will stay in that area .

What the hell is this post about?

I was simply pointing out that:

1. Camden has been looking for new construction, a build to suit location to move their North American Headquarters to and consolidate their operations. Their Cherry Hill headquarters have been outdated, and they have been quoted multiple times about seeking new construction. I am still baffled why you keep insisting that they are moving into an already built structure in Camden when they clearly stated they want brand new construction. Brandywine's and Campbell's new Camden Gateway plan will be a perfect spot for Campbell's.

2. They are receiving hundreds of millions of dollars to move. Basically New Jersey is paying them to relocate to Camden.

3. The crime in Camden has absolutely nothing to do with it. This is part of New Jersey's plans to revitalize Camden by offering incentives for companies to relocate there and to help bring jobs and economic growth to the city. Do you suggest New Jersey shouldn't do this and should just give up on Camden altogether because it makes such arbitrary internet lists?

4. From Cherry Hill to Camden is not that far. It will only be a few miles and will not seriously mess with current employee commuting patterns. HOWEVER, what it will do is move Subaru closer to the city of Philadelphia, and this new development is supposed to add a new PATCO stop. So it will have direct transit access to Center City Philadelphia which will make Subaru a more desirable place for Millennial's to want to work.

I see win, win, win all the way across the board. Getting brand new construction, being paid handsomely to make the move, staying within the same general area, AND becoming more centrally located with direct transit access to the core city and widening your hiring base.

Tell me why they should stay in Cherry Hill?

[josef]

Nailed it.

Subaru chooses former Sears site in Camden

Subaru of America plans to move its Cherry Hill headquarters to Camden, the company said Friday, and set up operations at the site of the former Sears building.

The planned site is in the Gateway office park near Campbell Soup's world headquarters on Admiral Wilson Boulevard.

More details of the project are expected to be announced later by the state Economic Development Authority, which next week will consider Subaru's request for tax incentives to move the company there.

If all goes as planned, the move would be completed by late 2016 or early 2017, company spokesman Michael McHale said.

The move is not expected to create new jobs in Camden. The company wants to move the 500 employees who work in its Cherry Hill headquarters and Pennsauken operations center into one new building.

Subaru had scouted other locations in New Jersey, as well as in Philadelphia.

"We're happy to stay in this area," McHale said.

Campbell Soup bought the long-vacant Sears building in 2012 and announced plans to develop the 13-acre property. Demolition began on the building last year.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20...ving_to_former_Sears_site_in_Camden.html

Summer's right, the move is only a 5 mile/10 minute move west up Admiral Wilson Blvd. It's not a huge, disruptive move for either Cherry Hill or Pennsauken employees. And if they get a PATCO stop that would service both them and Campbell's, then you have instant car-free access to talent in Philadelphia and towns further down the line like Collingswood, Westmont, and Haddonfield, etc.


Edit: More details from http://www.courierpostonline.com/story/n...5/subaru-choose-camden-site-hq/19950229/

The planned headquarters, at 250,000 square feet, will hold more than 500 employees and contractors who currently work at the three sites.

I'm bad with visualizing that amount of space. What's the comparable to in the region?

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by josef

Nailed it.



http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20...ving_to_former_Sears_site_in_Camden.html

Summer's right, the move is only a 5 mile/10 minute move west up Admiral Wilson Blvd. It's not a huge, disruptive move for either Cherry Hill or Pennsauken employees. And if they get a PATCO stop that would service both them and Campbell's, then you have instant car-free access to talent in Philadelphia and towns further down the line like Collingswood, Westmont, and Haddonfield, etc.


Edit: More details from http://www.courierpostonline.com/story/n...5/subaru-choose-camden-site-hq/19950229/



I'm bad with visualizing that amount of space. What's the comparable to in the region?

Probably something similar to GSK's headquarters in the Navy Yard in South Philly which is 208,000 square feet. I would imagine a four or five floor structure.

GSK Navy Yard

http://www.lfdriscoll.com/work-portfolio/glaxosmithkline-at-five-crescent-drive/

[japmes]

Originally Posted by josef

Nailed it.



http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20...ving_to_former_Sears_site_in_Camden.html

Summer's right, the move is only a 5 mile/10 minute move west up Admiral Wilson Blvd. It's not a huge, disruptive move for either Cherry Hill or Pennsauken employees. And if they get a PATCO stop that would service both them and Campbell's, then you have instant car-free access to talent in Philadelphia and towns further down the line like Collingswood, Westmont, and Haddonfield, etc.

These kinds of corporate moves to centralized locations with mass transit links and greater urban density are encouraging. Granted, the state is spending a fortune in tax incentives to make it happen but this is the kind of development that can lead to self-sustaining long-term urban renewal.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

for Philly it would be great to get in the city itself but on many fronts this may be the next best thing

A close friend works for Subaru, apparently the employee culture there is VERY Jersey/suburban. Like, a big night out happy hour would be at PJ Whelihans. Most of her colleagues live in Jersey and, not necessarily negatively, eschew the city. When i heard about that pervasive culture, I knew the chances of them moving to the city were slim to none.

[josef]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Probably something similar to GSK's headquarters in the Navy Yard in South Philly which is 208,000 square feet. I would imagine a four or five floor structure.

GSK Navy Yard

http://www.lfdriscoll.com/work-portfolio/glaxosmithkline-at-five-crescent-drive/

Ohhh, cool! Thanks for the comparison, that helps a lot.

Originally Posted by japmes

These kinds of corporate moves to centralized locations with mass transit links and greater urban density are encouraging. Granted, the state is spending a fortune in tax incentives to make it happen but this is the kind of development that can lead to self-sustaining long-term urban renewal.

Agreed. Whatever you think of it (I think it's horrible), the tax break war is in full effect. Hopefully it'll only take a few years of this to help Camden's wheels start turning on their own.

[josef]

Originally Posted by Londonee

A close friend works for Subaru, apparently the employee culture there is VERY Jersey/suburban. Like, a big night out happy hour would be at PJ Whelihans. Most of her colleagues live in Jersey and, not necessarily negatively, eschew the city. When i heard about that pervasive culture, I knew the chances of them moving to the city were slim to none.

I would imagine this move, especially if there's a PATCO link, will open up the employee base to a more urban audience. Of course it'll have to be accompanied by Subaru trying to intelligently recruit them, which I imagine will increasingly be the case, if they plan on being there for the long haul.

[Larry King]

Subaru to camden is a done deal.. thats the reality.. no point debating whether its happening or not.. they should put a george norcross statue on top of city hall

[1487]

Originally Posted by Londonee

A close friend works for Subaru, apparently the employee culture there is VERY Jersey/suburban. Like, a big night out happy hour would be at PJ Whelihans. Most of her colleagues live in Jersey and, not necessarily negatively, eschew the city. When i heard about that pervasive culture, I knew the chances of them moving to the city were slim to none.

well even when it was rumored they were coming here the site was the navy yard- the burbs in the city. For whatever reason few automakers in the US have urban HQ locations. GM is one of the few.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by 1487

well even when it was rumored they were coming here the site was the navy yard- the burbs in the city. For whatever reason few automakers in the US have urban HQ locations. GM is one of the few.

Cadillac does as well. Their headquarters are now in Manhattan.

[Kidphilly]

http://www.cooperrobertson.com/what_we_do/projecttype/cities/campbells.php

[Kidphilly]

http://www.innovationneighborhoodphl.com.../innovation_neighborhood_a_du_vision.pdf