PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[McBane]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Wow great points. If only Philly closed a bunch of libraries and gave the savings to companies in the form of tax breaks Philly would be a much better city!

I know this is a forum for skyscraper enthusiasts but there is more to a great city than tall buildings.

You totally missed my point. What I meant was that the closing of a few libraries generated an outcry while on the other hand far more pressing issues like high taxes and the failure to sell PGW generated zero public outcry. I was merely demonstrating the priorities of the city's residents and how that has permeated into our city government. For those wishing that the city's government become more business friendly, it's really a pipe dream because there are more voters whose interests run counter to the reforms needed to make Philadelphia more business friendly. If you offered the public a chance to eliminate the wage tax and substantially lower business taxes at the cost of closing libraries and scaling back union benefits, the public and the city council would most definitely side with the libraries and unions.

[josef]

If cities aren't inherently tax-friendly, no matter which city it is, should the goal not to be build the best damn city we can so they'd still lose money not being here? I mean people move companies all the time for dumb reasons. Like the CEO lives in the suburbs so the company's there. That kind of stuff. I'd love for the city to be as business friendly as possible, but I don't know, how many great cities are "business friendly" to the extent we're making them out to be? When I think "business friendly" the first thing that comes to mind is sprawling sunbelt cities, and I don't want Philadelphia to be that.

Even Boston, the Great Clone of Philadelphia We Should Look To For Advice, isn't that "business friendly"; until very recently, most companies were in the suburbs (tons still are), and the ones that came close to the city were in Cambridge because they can't ignore MIT and Harvard, or they want venture capital, not because Cambridge's business taxes were half a percentage point less for gross blah blah whatever. Right?

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by McBane

You totally missed my point. What I meant was that the closing of a few libraries generated an outcry while on the other hand far more pressing issues like high taxes and the failure to sell PGW generated zero public outcry. I was merely demonstrating the priorities of the city's residents and how that has permeated into our city government. For those wishing that the city's government become more business friendly, it's really a pipe dream because there are more voters whose interests run counter to the reforms needed to make Philadelphia more business friendly. If you offered the public a chance to eliminate the wage tax and substantially lower business taxes at the cost of closing libraries and scaling back union benefits, the public and the city council would most definitely side with the libraries and unions.

People voting for their own interests? Imagine that.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by Nightman

I guess this project is moving ahead. Anyone have any pics?

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-p...ford-Ave-concert-hall-bowling-still.html

Its be under re-construction for some time. Glad to see it has continued financing. The area has multiple portable cranes, for this project, Sugarhouse Expansion and i95 work. Once they are complete this area should really be enjoyable.

[shadowbat2]

Not sure if that project is actually underway yet. I beloieve a lot of those cranes and equipment that you might have saw are for a large sewer project that runs through the area (digging up the whole street and building a new concrete box tunnel). Also some new homes are being built in the immediate area.

Last I heard there were a select few NIMBYS that are holding it up who would much rather put up with a complex of abandoned wrecks than a lively restaurant/entertainment complex that will "create noise", "take up parking" (the lots proposed under 95 are nowhere big enough to them, the fact they are in what is called a "city" apparently has escaped their minds), oh and I'm pretty sure "attracting a rough element" is high on their minds too.

I wouldn't be surprised if these are the same group of folks that stopped the restoration of the Jumbo theater at Front and Girard into a bar/concert venue a couple of years back citing the "rough element" excuse. Instead of being restored the building was gutted and made into a Deals store.

[1487]

Originally Posted by McBane

You totally missed my point. What I meant was that the closing of a few libraries generated an outcry while on the other hand far more pressing issues like high taxes and the failure to sell PGW generated zero public outcry. I was merely demonstrating the priorities of the city's residents and how that has permeated into our city government. For those wishing that the city's government become more business friendly, it's really a pipe dream because there are more voters whose interests run counter to the reforms needed to make Philadelphia more business friendly. If you offered the public a chance to eliminate the wage tax and substantially lower business taxes at the cost of closing libraries and scaling back union benefits, the public and the city council would most definitely side with the libraries and unions.

There is no public outcry to sell PGW because MOST people (of all income levels) don't really see what's in it for them. Telling people that selling PGW is great because it will help the pension fund isn't likely enough to get them excited- I bet most aren't even playing close attention to the PGW saga.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by McBane

The recent decision by City Council to halt the sale of PGW - not mentioned on this board before - is further evidence of the city's anti-business culture. Not to sound cold, but it seems as though the city's leaders are most concerned about the poor and the unions because of course, those are the folks that vote and keep the imbeciles, I mean incumbents in power.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: so long as the city's electorate is dominated by unions and welfare leeches, it will be next to impossible to generate true change. That's the sad truth. Because most pro-growth/pro-business policies (i.e., tax cuts, corporate welfare, etc.) hurt the unions and the poor in the short term as there is only so much money to go around. High taxes doesn't stir up the citizenry because either people are exempt from taxes or they move to the suburbs. But propose closing a library and all hell breaks loose.

Way to keep it classy, man.

[1487]

Originally Posted by josef

If cities aren't inherently tax-friendly, no matter which city it is, should the goal not to be build the best damn city we can so they'd still lose money not being here? I mean people move companies all the time for dumb reasons. Like the CEO lives in the suburbs so the company's there. That kind of stuff. I'd love for the city to be as business friendly as possible, but I don't know, how many great cities are "business friendly" to the extent we're making them out to be? When I think "business friendly" the first thing that comes to mind is sprawling sunbelt cities, and I don't want Philadelphia to be that.

Even Boston, the Great Clone of Philadelphia We Should Look To For Advice, isn't that "business friendly"; until very recently, most companies were in the suburbs (tons still are), and the ones that came close to the city were in Cambridge because they can't ignore MIT and Harvard, or they want venture capital, not because Cambridge's business taxes were half a percentage point less for gross blah blah whatever. Right?

NYC still has the greatest concentration of office jobs by far in the nation and I don't think NYC or NY State can come close to matching the low taxes offered in southern parts of the country. Not only that, the overall costs of doing business in NYC are probably higher than any other area of the country.

[1487]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

It's really not. At least it's not where it could be. I am close with a number of executives at Suburban companies, some of them C-suite. They want to be near the city. Not in the city. And that has more to do with taxes and other real or perceived anti-business policies than the geographic makeup of the workforce or employee preferences.

The Conshohocken article, to the extent you want to look to that as an authority, does not say otherwise. It simply posits that companies want to be in suburb, either for tax burden or commuter patterns. Maybe. Without really digging in or reaching any type of conclusion. That's not the focus or purpose of the article.

Class a vacancies are lower here than in virtually every suburban sub-market. South Jersey and the outer PA suburbs in particular are struggling. There are more small and medium sized companies opening offices here or outright moving here than going the other way. There is even less office construction going on in the suburban markets than there is in the CBD. I have a relative who is at vanguard and he said there is a TON of interest by many employees in working in the city and increasingly the younger employees are reverse commuting from the city. The notion that a company wouldnt want to be in the city due to lack of qualified workers is absurd because everyone knows a huge portion of the workers in Center City commute from the burbs. Its actually easier to get talent into a CC location because the highways and transit modes all lead here. If you actually read anything related to the companies who have recently relocated here you will find that the execs have praised city (and state) officials for being easy to work with and accommodating. There are teams of people working for City and state that do nothing but try to attract and negotiate with companies that want to move or expand here. It doesnt matter how low you make the tax burden, you aren't going to attract every suburban company. But Philly is doing far better at competing than in decades past.

[Mappy]

Here is the site plan and proposal for the FDR Park Velodrome
http://www.phila.gov/ParksandRecreation/aboutus/PDF/Project250AlternativesAnalysis.pdf

Some folks balk at using park space when there are tons of empty lots... But i think the location is perfect. It helps complete the collection of venues/stadiums in a nice pattern that could easily have infrastructre engineered around the complex to form an really coherant Olympic Park (2028?) centered on the Broad/Pattison intersection which has subway, and ought to have the eventual Delaware Ave Light rail connection if they do it right.

A Velodrom is one of the few venues Philly would need built to host a games. Fill in some entertainment with expansion of Xfinity Live, the casino, and build a swim/dive venue on the NW corner of Broad and Pattison (where the eagles practice fields are), and the Olympic Village is basically already formed. with good transit and amenities.

We would just need to hope the 2024 game are not in N. America though, since they wouldnt do two straight on the same continent.

[summersm343]

More on the Velodrome

I agree in that I don't understand why this can't be built on one of the surface parking lots right across Broad Street in the Sports Complex instead of taking up park space, but I'm all or it either way.



http://philly.curbed.com/archives/2014/12/03/is-a-leed-platinum-velodrome-headed-to-fdr-park.php

[japmes]

Originally Posted by summersm343

More on the Velodrome

I agree in that I don't understand why this can't be built on one of the surface parking lots right across Broad Street in the Sports Complex instead of taking up park space, but I'm all or it either way.



http://philly.curbed.com/archives/2014/12/03/is-a-leed-platinum-velodrome-headed-to-fdr-park.php

I like it and think it's actually a good use of under-utilized park land.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by summersm343

More on the Velodrome

I agree in that I don't understand why this can't be built on one of the surface parking lots right across Broad Street in the Sports Complex instead of taking up park space, but I'm all or it either way.



http://philly.curbed.com/archives/2014/12/03/is-a-leed-platinum-velodrome-headed-to-fdr-park.php

hopefully the surface lots will be developed into hotels, etc.
I think this velodrome proposal is amazing. I only had a chance to glance through the 68 page document, but it is supposed to be privately financed and will be a leg up for Philadelphia if we ever put out a serious proposal to get the Olympics.

[ILovePhilly]

Philly.com Article

1515 Market has sold for $85 Million.
It's 502,000 sq/ft for a price of $169 per sqft

Broker JLL says the building is 87% occupied and that we can expect a slew of sales to be announced in Center City before the year's end.

[boxbot]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

if we ever put out a serious proposal to get the Olympics.

Oh god, bite your tongue.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by boxbot

Oh god, bite your tongue.

I understand why you would say that, but I think it could be done economically and so that it would bring benefit to the city.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

No. It cannot.

Yes. It can.

I know there can sometimes be a lot of hatred towards the 'burbs around these here parts but you really have to give a lot of credit to some of these edge 'burbs like Conshy, they are growing in a fairly decent manner and doing their part to try to lure both businesses and residents. For its size, Conshy packs a lot of punch now and it's in a great location.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by shadowbat2

Not sure if that project is actually underway yet. I beloieve a lot of those cranes and equipment that you might have saw are for a large sewer project that runs through the area (digging up the whole street and building a new concrete box tunnel). Also some new homes are being built in the immediate area.

Last I heard there were a select few NIMBYS that are holding it up who would much rather put up with a complex of abandoned wrecks than a lively restaurant/entertainment complex that will "create noise", "take up parking" (the lots proposed under 95 are nowhere big enough to them, the fact they are in what is called a "city" apparently has escaped their minds), oh and I'm pretty sure "attracting a rough element" is high on their minds too.

I wouldn't be surprised if these are the same group of folks that stopped the restoration of the Jumbo theater at Front and Girard into a bar/concert venue a couple of years back citing the "rough element" excuse. Instead of being restored the building was gutted and made into a Deals store.

The building has been totally gutted, the windows have been knocked out and some have been replaced. The roof is in the process of being totally re-done.

I don't know if they have full approval on what is going in the building, but the building itself has been under heavy work for a couple months now.

[Jelly Roll]

"Officials won't say more publicly, but two people with knowledge of the project said Wednesday that Subaru of America will soon announce its move from Cherry Hill to Camden."

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20141204_Subaru_expected_to_be_latest_to_move_to_Camden.html

[shadowbat2]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

The building has been totally gutted, the windows have been knocked out and some have been replaced. The roof is in the process of being totally re-done.

I don't know if they have full approval on what is going in the building, but the building itself has been under heavy work for a couple months now.

Did you see any activity inside (workers coming/going)? I ask because I know the buildings were in that gutted/stabilized condition for at least two years AFAIK.

Those buildings (the former AJAX Metals factory) was such an awesome place to explore and fool around in several years back (like 2009 2010) Place was busted wide open with graffiti etc. I have to dig up the photos I took of the inside before they sealed it up and gutted it.

I could not believe at the time that the property would be purchased by someone actually wanted to take the time and effort to refurbish each and every component, while any other developer would have simply demolished the site to build anew. This is why it really pisses me off to no end this select group of "angry neighbors" have been taking legal action to delay/stop the project. Who wants to guess that these people moved in here from the suburbs too.

This developer actually had some pretty cool plans for a whole bunch of buildings along this stretch including uncovering a waterway that was buried under Canal Street (hence the source of it's name) I don't know what is up with these plans now....

I'll def try to check out the progress if I am able to make it to the site tomorrow before sundown LOL. I'm just glad the developer has the perseverance to put up with this crap for years on end....

Sorry for ranting like this haha....I had been keeping tabs on this situation for a bit and it was really making my blood boil....