Winnipeg Construction VIII

[bomberjet]

So I'll do the math, $400/sqf for 500,000 sqf = $200M... Completely unrealistic for anything or anybody, unless you're willing to take a huge bath. And I really don't now a whole lot about the ins and outs of property development.

[drew]

^ gonna have to be government backed (all three levels) to re-purpose this building for office or residential use.

Residential re-use would likley require losing a bunch of square feet for an interior courtyard. Still my preferred use of this building going forward. Residential up top, Commercial main and basement .

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by drew

^ gonna have to be government backed (all three levels) to re-purpose this building for office or residential use.

Residential re-use would likley require losing a bunch of square feet for an interior courtyard. Still my preferred use of this building going forward. Residential up top, Commercial main and basement .

The best thing that could happen to this building would be to lose a bunch of square footage!

I just know how much political will there would be for something like this, though. You aren't going to sell something like 400 units at an average of $500/sq ft and does anybody have enough political capital to dump somewhere on the order of $100MM towards making it feasible? I'm doubtful.

This thing is almost as big as 201 Portage. If somebody started talking about filling another building of that scale, would anybody even think it serious?

[drew]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

The best thing that could happen to this building would be to lose a bunch of square footage!

Which is why I hope residential goes forward. Lose some heft, retain the outside perimeter of the building, and away you go.

[CoryB]

I think it is interesting that U of W considered space in The Bay and backed away quickly. Same with the Art Gallery. Those seemed to be two of the better chances at finding a new purpose for the space.

I was also shocked to see Hydro allowed to move forward with the demo of actively used mid-rise buldings for their new-build on Portage Ave over finding a way to make The Bay site work.

It is further interesting the article did not comment at all on the possibility of a SoPo bid or the implications of the Province's plan to free up 100,000 sq ft of leased space, likely mostly in the downtown core.

[bomberjet]

I like the idea of connecting Graham to Memorial. Split the building in two.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I think it is interesting that U of W considered space in The Bay and backed away quickly. Same with the Art Gallery. Those seemed to be two of the better chances at finding a new purpose for the space.

I was also shocked to see Hydro allowed to move forward with the demo of actively used mid-rise buldings for their new-build on Portage Ave over finding a way to make The Bay site work.

It is further interesting the article did not comment at all on the possibility of a SoPo bid or the implications of the Province's plan to free up 100,000 sq ft of leased space, likely mostly in the downtown core.

Interesting, but not surprising. I kind of like how the article goes out of its way to point out that there are plenty of already-built spaces.

It's worth noting that when the land for SoPo originally came up, MPI put out an RFP and more or less wasted everybody's time seeing as it was obviously pre-selected. And I don't think this instance is any different. The public won't even know about the other vacancies and the city and province will get to go out of their way to talk about growth in downtown Winnipeg and everybody's commitment to the SHED. Filling a vacancy in an existing building doesn't beget a ribbon cutting or any other associated fanfare...

[headhorse]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I like the idea of connecting Graham to Memorial. Split the building in two.

I think the building could be split in two but with the outer facade maintained... pedestrian only corridor with a couple retail spaces along there between Memorial and Vaughn... one of the buildings the Bay could take up two or three floors with office/UofM occupying the others... the other building could be residential. maintain the basement space for hopefully some kind of grocery/market. Would like to see the parkade re-purposed with some street level uses on Memorial/Vaughn and a residential tower on top. obviously my ideal scenario and not realistic.

[bomberjet]

Sounds great though!

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I'm sure there's many more people willing to be located in a Liquor and Lotteries office no matter where it's located.

I disagree, I know a number of MLCC employees pissed about moving downtown.

[bomberjet]

I was more referring to people who don't work for them now. If those people want to quit because they don't want to work downtown, there's 1,000,000 other Manitobans who could slide right in there.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I was more referring to people who don't work for them now. If those people want to quit because they don't want to work downtown, there's 1,000,000 other Manitobans who could slide right in there.

Haha, so true. In fairness, some people probably made housing decisions in relation to where they've worked for the last 5, 10, 20 years, so it is an understandable beef. The fact that many will have to start paying for parking or bus passes compounds that... Hydro went through the same thing, as I'm sure MTS did along with various government departments that have relocated downtown.

After a few months once everybody gets used to it, the gripes will quiet down.

[bomberjet]

Ya exactly. I know a number of people who work for Hydro. Everybody bitched. But after a while, people get used to it.

You'll always have those people who hang on to the past and will 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 for the rest of their career. At the company I work for, people are still hanging on to pre-merger alliances. Even after many years. You still hear "well back when we were X company, this is how we did it. This new company is BS." So quit then, nobodies holding you hostage.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

I disagree, I know a number of MLCC employees pissed about moving downtown.

You could move an office across the street and employees would find a reason to be pissed about something.

When I was working in Calgary we moved a chunk of people from downtown to the burbs (and right next to a C-Train station) and people complained.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Interesting, but not surprising. I kind of like how the article goes out of its way to point out that there are plenty of already-built spaces.

It's worth noting that when the land for SoPo originally came up, MPI put out an RFP and more or less wasted everybody's time seeing as it was obviously pre-selected. And I don't think this instance is any different. The public won't even know about the other vacancies and the city and province will get to go out of their way to talk about growth in downtown Winnipeg and everybody's commitment to the SHED. Filling a vacancy in an existing building doesn't beget a ribbon cutting or any other associated fanfare...

I think there will be some slight spin attempt on why the SoPo location was selected for MLLC with some combination of:

- other sites where not an entire build
- the building selected provides an enhanced level of security
- floor plates are too smaller or too large in other buildings
- there is not enough parking on site, or it is not secure
- the other proposed sites are not as energy efficient
- the selected location has better access to transit

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I think there will be some slight spin attempt on why the SoPo location was selected for MLLC with some combination of:

- other sites where not an entire build
- the building selected provides an enhanced level of security
- floor plates are too smaller or too large in other buildings
- there is not enough parking on site, or it is not secure
- the other proposed sites are not as energy efficient
- the selected location has better access to transit

That about captures that!

The whole thing is just so slimy. The upfront subsidies, the backdoor subsidies, the 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 revenues, the residential grant monies, Centreventure buying seedy hotels. I don't know. Maybe I'm the only one who looks at the return of the Jets as a trojan horse towards nearly unlimited Chipman welfare, but the forthright manner in which it's being done is indicative of what the city and province think about the collective intelligence of the citizenry...

[bomberjet]

I still don't get why they need the gaming room/vlt revenue. The Jets do make enough without that revenue to be "self-sufficient". Quotations are for all the other subsidies they get.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

, but the forthright manner in which it's being done is indicative of what the city and province think about the collective intelligence of the citizenry...

For better or for worse, nobody gives a 🞵🞵🞵🞵. If any sizable number of people was going to get worked up about the cash-strapped province doling out considerable amounts of money to a profitable venture owned by one of the richest men in the world, it would have happened by now.

You could never get away with something like this for, say, a meat-packing plant, but sprinkle a little NHL fairy dust on it and everyone's OK with it. The mind boggles. And now on to the next installment.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I still don't get why they need the gaming room/vlt revenue. The Jets do make enough without that revenue to be "self-sufficient". Quotations are for all the other subsidies they get.

It was used as a carrot by the province. True North successfully made the case that bringing the team here was rife with risk and they wanted fail-safes in place in the event it proved unsustainable. The province being the province, they attached no conditions. Like, if you're profitable, the subsidy kicks out. Now, it's being used to line the pockets of the ownership. Hell, they could've even conditioned it in a way that forced it back into something as a form of reinvestment or that it would be skimmed off the top of any other subsidy tied to their dealings within the SHED, but nope. So now it's just a $4MM payout to the Chipman family on an annual go-forward basis.

And because it's coming from the province, the city has nothing to complain about. The team pays the entertainment tax and the province rebates it.

[BAKGUY]

Mark Chipman is so smart. What a deal he has made. This family is quite savvy.
In today's Free Press The Chipman family, Steve more so is preparing to open in Headingly, a refurbishing complex.. Birchwood Automotive Group, $6-million used-car reconditioning centre. You notice not in Winnipeg, put as the Iceplex and Many car dealerships, outside to avoid paying city taxes. Nice. They are lowering staff wages, have many ways to tax dodge..The rich find a way to get richer.