Sports in Canadian culture

[esquire]

Tell us a bit about RDS' coverage, Acajack. Who are the play by play guys? Are they good?

[Prometheus]

The 102nd Grey Cup was an awesome, massive spectacle last night. Suspenseful and tense right down to the last play. So close to being legendary at the end. Powerful and inspired half-time show by the Imagine Dragons too.

Fully enjoyed myself.

[YoungRepublic]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I agree. Soccer (British origin) is often cited in these discussions because it's a huge part of the culture in places like Brazil.

But Brazil has created its own homegrown soccer culture, with its own history, style of play and even "lore". They've truly made it their own. To the point where Brazil = soccer in most people's minds around the world even more than UK = soccer.

Soccer in Brazil is not just Brazilians sitting around watching English Premier League games on TV. That's why it's considered to be Brazilian culture through and through.

True, but that is an apples and oranges comparison to make. Brazilian culture and British culture are not intertwined. They're separated by the Atlantic ocean and much more. The United States and Canada share a continent. Most Canadians live within an hour (or so) from the US border. We have a shared culture and a shared history. This includes sports and professional sports leagues. The history of the NHL is an obvious one. The Montreal Royals/Brooklyn Dodgers is another one. The history of the NBA is an interesting one as well. The First BAA (Basketball Association of America) game was played in Toronto in 1946 between the Toronto Huskies and the New York Knickerbockers. The BAA later merged with the NBL (National Basketball League) in 1949 to form the NBA. The Toronto Huskies folded a year after its first game, but the fact remains that even in the earliest moments/history of the NBA, a shared history or bond between the United States and Canada can be found. Canadians following US based professional sports leagues is a part of our history and culture. It's just how things work here, it's not a new phenomena. And I'm nor sure Brazil and Britain is in any way comparable.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by esquire

Someone is clearly forgetting how bad CBC production was relative to TSN. TSN improved things dramatically once they took over. CBC really started to go downhill in 1995 when they started doing only half the CFL season (although they did switch back to a full season later on). CBC really did nothing to build any fan interest or excitement the way TSN does, and CBC's personalities were like a montage of the dullest human beings they could possibly find. I'm not entirely certain that some of their commentators and panellists like Greg Frers, Sean Millington and Mark Lee were actually alive.

I guess we have to agree to disagree.
Or maybe the absolute horribleness of Rod Black overshadows everything positive TSN does.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YoungRepublic

True, but that is an apples and oranges comparison to make. Brazilian culture and British culture are not intertwined. They're separated by the Atlantic ocean and much more. The United States and Canada share a continent. Most Canadians live within an hour (or so) from the US border. We have a shared culture and a shared history. This includes sports and professional sports leagues. The history of the NHL is an obvious one. The Montreal Royals/Brooklyn Dodgers is another one. The history of the NBA is an interesting one as well. The First BAA (Basketball Association of America) game was played in Toronto in 1946 between the Toronto Huskies and the New York Knickerbockers. The BAA later merged with the NBL (National Basketball League) in 1949 to form the NBA. The Toronto Huskies folded a year after its first game, but the fact remains that even in the earliest moments/history of the NBA, a shared history or bond between the United States and Canada can be found. Canadians following US based professional sports leagues is a part of our history and culture. It's just how things work here, it's not a new phenomena. And I'm nor sure Brazil and Britain is in any way comparable.

It's still odd to claim stuff like the NCAA or NFL as "ours". Even if we have a tradition of paying attention to them to some degree. (And even that's debatable.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Tell us a bit about RDS' coverage, Acajack. Who are the play by play guys? Are they good?

They're OK. The same crew does both CFL and NFL on RDS. In any event there is no difference in the quality of the commentators between CFL and NFL as they are the same people.

Except for Alouettes games, the Grey Cup and (maybe) the Super Bowl they do all games from the studio in Montreal.

The two main guys are David Arsenault (play by play) and former CFLer Pierre Vercheval does the colour.

The two sideline guys are Matthieu Proulx (ex of the Alouettes) and Didier Orméjuste who played NCAA and was drafted by Edmonton but never played a down.

Also part of the team I think are former CFLers Bruno Heppell and Mike Sutherland. Sutherland is from Ottawa and speaks unaccented French (I kinda know his family) but I am not sure about his involvement now as he has been working for the RedBlacks since their return.

[esquire]

^ Cool... back in the days before every single CFL game was on TSN, I occasionally used to watch RDS to see the Bombers and Als, but the channel hasn't been part of my cable package for years... I have no idea what their production looks like.

On a related note, given that TSN is pretty much basic cable these days, I'm surprised that RDS isn't. I already get several French-language TV stations which I hardly ever watch, but I'm sure I'd flip it to RDS from time to time if I had it.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Cool... back in the days before every single CFL game was on TSN, I occasionally used to watch RDS to see the Bombers and Als, but the channel hasn't been part of my cable package for years... I have no idea what their production looks like.

On a related note, given that TSN is pretty much basic cable these days, I'm surprised that RDS isn't. I already get several French-language TV stations which I hardly ever watch, but I'm sure I'd flip it to RDS from time to time if I had it.

I'd think RDS would be one of the least controversial (most popular?) French language add-ons to basic cable in most regions of Canada. And probably the new TVA Sports network as well. More sports options are good for sports fans and who cares about the language? It's a very language-neutral TV product.

In Quebec I believe all of the English-language sports channels available in Canada are on basic cable all over the province, precisely for this reason.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I'd think RDS would be one of the least controversial (most popular?) French language add-ons to basic cable in most regions of Canada. And probably the new TVA Sports network as well. More sports options are good for sports fans and who cares about the language? It's a very language-neutral TV product.

When I'm at home on Saturday afternoons in the fall, my TV is typically on Radio Canada for Football universitaire. RDS and TVA Sports would be nice additions to the lineup.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

When I'm at home on Saturday afternoons in the fall, my TV is typically on Radio Canada for Football universitaire. RDS and TVA Sports would be nice additions to the lineup.

You could actually get five more sports channels, as RDS has RDS2 and RDS Info (headline sports news) and TVA Sports now has TVA Sports 2.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by osmo

Well ESPN and BSI are the ones producing the games...

ESPN has been getting flack lately because some games they send out the "B team" but overall they remain consistent and even a bad game for MLS by ESPN is still miles ahead of anything TSN pumps out.

TSN nor Rogers produces TFC games its down in house by the MLS League via a contract with ESPN. So all the games, regardless whom is playing, or where, all look the same. All the networks do is add their overlay graphics, some may add extras like sky shots, or stock shots of the city but that is it (CBC would reuse the same Toronto stock shot of the CN Tower for HNIC, not sure if Rogers updated it this year lol). For a league with only 8 teams, and a sole broadcaster having a base level of quality for games is almost mandatory.

My gripe with TSN and its thrifty ways is that we know what it is capable of but they always short change on production any chance they can. Only when forced by Americans does TSN get its act together which I feel is pathetic.

Rogers meanwhile has no issue in making product look good, they invest good technique and resources into Blue Jays games, and IMO the Memorial Cup is one of the better produced sports events in the country which is very underrated. Rogers does a top notch job each year with it.

Its easy to notice once you get the opportunities too see it.

The last chance was when the Raptors and Bulls played. Raptors first American national game in how many years in prime time with TNT pulling the game. I was at that game and you noticed the difference in the area first off as it was re-branded for a NBA national telecast. Some Raptors sponsors had to be covered up and NBA branding was put all over the court padding versus local stuff. Next, outside extra trucks and dishes were present of course to beam the feed to TNT in Atlanta. But you didn't need to be there to notice the differences if you could swap between the TSN version of the game and TNT it was like night and day. In the arena at the bar they had both channels playing and TSN looks like amateur hour in comparison to the way smother transitions and added camera angles that TNT offers versus TSN. People think these are little things but advertisers notice. They want a polished product to host their branding. If something looks "off" or "cheap" it may turn off very specific advertisers whom want a certain level of detail to host their brand.

The closest thing I have seen to a American channel producing TSN quality is ESPN last year had the Raptors in Brooklyn on a Friday night with a bunch of other games going on at once. ESPN had national rights for that day so they had all the games covered. I believed they pushed the Raptors to ESPN 2 and gave them the "D team", one of the worst broadcasts I have watched. Another would be backwater regional games on Fox Sports or Comcast. I highly contested Cubs and Braves game in June is not going to look so great.

TSN essentially has the same quality for CFL as random 2nd tier regional sports networks in America.

lol at the thought of Rogers' Sportsnet having better production value then TSN. What color is the sky in your world osmo?

The announcers, tv anchors and presentation and graphics for things like hockey and SportsCentre are miles ahead of Rogers' sports news, hockey and Blue Jays baseball.

Just to add to this, there have been several complaints since of Rogers since they took over Hockey Night in Canada from CBC. It has been a noticeable downgrade. Some of their commentators and analysts are brutal! Personalities like Bob Mackenzie are considerably better.

[The_Architect]

After reading the pages of "discussion" that happened this weekend... I am very glad I wasn't around. So much ignorance.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by TownGuy

If you want to do a fair comparison of the numbers posted, to say the NBA, you would have to have the Raptors play a game 7 in the conference finals. For it to be really fair you would have to bring the Grizzlies back to Vancouver and make it an all Canadian matchup like CFL games. The NBA numbers would destroy the CFL in that case most likely. Same thing with the MLB if the Jays ever theoretically played the Expos in the playoffs.

Maybe for baseball but certainly not for basketball. Game 7 of a Toronto-Vancouver NBA series would beat a BC-Argos Grey Cup in the ratings? Across Canada? In 2014? Not likely.

Basketball is nowhere near as popular as football in general in Canada. At least not yet.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Just to add to this, there have been several complaints since of Rogers since they took over Hockey Night in Canada from CBC. It has been a noticeable downgrade. Some of their commentators and analysts are brutal! Personalities like Bob Mackenzie are considerably better.

Some of these guys they have on between periods sound like they just came in off the street. Rogers has bitten off more than they can chew. They simply don't have close enough to the personnel required to cover almost every game. What really bugs me is that they raised the price of the on line package by 33%, then provide crap productions. Rogers greed motivated me to look for alternatives and I've found a free service with just as good a picture quality, though it does cut out once in a while.

PS - How in the world did we end up with Randorf calling games in the 2nd largest english speaking market in Canada?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Basketball is nowhere near as popular as football in general in Canada. At least not yet.

For some reason the focus is always on CFL vs. NFL, but the story that gets missed is how huge pro football in general is becoming in Canada. The ratings of both leagues seem to be on the upswing... I wonder how the CFL/NFL combined stack up to the NHL? It would probably be pretty close either way. But no question that with only a handful of specific exceptions (e.g. Olympic Gold Medal Hockey, Stanley Cup Finals), they would completely obliterate every other sport in the ratings besides the NHL.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Is he comparing single-game Blue Jays audiences (165 games per season) with single-game CFL audiences (18 games per season)?

But this does not lead to a true "multiplier" or "divider" effect when it comes to the popularity of a team or a sport.

The Blue Jays draw 2.4 million fans a season, about three times the 800,000 fans the Leafs draw.

This does not necessarily mean that the Blue Jays are three times as popular as the Leafs.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

For some reason the focus is always on CFL vs. NFL, but the story that gets missed is how huge pro football in general is becoming in Canada. The ratings of both leagues seem to be on the upswing... I wonder how the CFL/NFL combined stack up to the NHL? It would probably be pretty close either way. But no question that with only a handful of specific exceptions (e.g. Olympic Gold Medal Hockey, Stanley Cup Finals), they would completely obliterate every other sport in the ratings besides the NHL.

It's growing in popularity for sure but I am not sure that CFL+NFL is a clean sum you can add together to come to a total number of gridiron football fans in Canada.

Gridiron football is pretty much the only sport like this in Canada, but you really do have to take into account the fact that that a majority of fans of both leagues are fans of the other to some degree. There is tons of duplication between the fan numbers for both.

[esquire]

^ Oh yes, of course there is overlap. But what I'm saying is that because the NFL and CFL ratings are fragmented to some degree with, in the broadest terms, NFL dominating in Southern Ontario and younger people, and CFL dominating out west and with an older demographic, you don't really get a clear sense of how big the market for pro football is generally.

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by rousseau

http://angusreid.org/one-quarter-can...val/#more52789

I'm fascinated by how this pole shows how Saskatchewan bucks national trend.. NHL is about 40% following nationally except for Sask in which its 30% (about the same as NFL following in the province) CFL & NFL in Canada is strongest in Sask, (65% for CFL in the province). I wonder how much NHL following would increase in Saskatchewan if actually had an NHL team (presumable =65% at the very least, doubling in popularity most likely.. more fans than Manitobans for the Jets)

Ontario averages 16-21% for both the CFL & NFL or about equal (5% difference between the two).

incidentally for comparison, NBA is 8%, MLS is 7% following nationally..

[EdFromOttawa]

Not sure how you can call yourself a redblooded Canadian if you'd rather be supporting some team from Dallas than one in your own backyard.