Sports in Canadian culture

[YoungRepublic]

Originally Posted by elly63

We CFL fans are a thin skinned lot. We don't bring out the guns until someone else has taken the first shot. We know we have issues, that's why we don't go looking for trouble. But when a Toronto based media is openly hostile and encourages the regular broadcasts of even the most unneeded US sports (read regular season NCAA) instead of our own thus encouraging conditioning on the part of miserable US wannabees, yes we get pissed.

Are you referring to NCAA football? I can understand why they show that here considering the popularity of the NFL in Canada. People might want to watch the next big thing in the NFL. I have no idea why NCAA Basketball is given so much hype on TSN when the NBA is culturally irrelevant to most Canadians. Unless NCAA basketball is bigger in Canada than the NBA, but I seriously doubt that.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by rousseau

I'm a massive Raptors fan, but I'm sympathetic to this frustration. It's gotta be annoying being told by the mothership that you now have to cheer for this new team that they've decided should be everyone's team.

The whole "representing not just a city, or a state, but a whole country" thing makes me cringe. I keep seeing video clips of various Raptors players and associated media personalities blathering on and on about how the Raptors are "Canada's team," that it's an honour to be playing for "the whole country." I can't help thinking that I'd want to punch my TV set if I lived in Saskatchewan and heard that, especially if I hated basketball and/or was a fan of another NBA team.

Having said all that: from what I understand, there really is a minor subset of kids throughout Canada who really are latching on to the Raptors as "Canada's team." I don't know what the numbers or proportions are, but apparently they really are there. Blame social media and the internet, I guess.

I think of the Raptors as Canada's team, it's why I chose them. When I first got into basketball and was looking for a team to choose, we don't have one in the city, or in our province so naturally I decided to go for the only one in the country. Cheering for a team in a foreign nation just seems odd to me.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by YoungRepublic

Are you referring to NCAA football? I can understand why they show that here considering the popularity of the NFL in Canada. People might want to watch the next big thing in the NFL. I have no idea why NCAA Basketball is given so much hype on TSN when the NBA is culturally irrelevant to most Canadians. Unless NCAA basketball is bigger in Canada than the NBA, but I seriously doubt that.

NCAA football gets no ratings, it is content TSN gets relatively cheaply as compared to in-house outside broadcasts. The problem is if it's the only thing on people will eventually watch it thus becoming conditioned to it as being normal.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by YoungRepublic

Are you referring to NCAA football? I can understand why they show that here considering the popularity of the NFL in Canada.

Considering that the CFL is still more popular than the NFL in most of Canada why isn't the CIS regularly broadcast? The EPL gets rated in the Top 20 sports of the week why don't we show Conference league games? Why do some want to suck on the teat of a foreign country to the exclusion and betterment of their own?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by elly63

Most important region in the country? You guys have a lot of natural resources in the GTA, do ya?

That's awesome. Let's get into a lengthy discussion of why southern Ontario isn't the most important region in the country, shall we?

Originally Posted by elly63

I give up, we've laid out all the facts, destroyed the myths, which the Yankee wannabes deny, what more can we do. We've proven the CFL is more popular across the country than anything except hockey but because it isn't in your local enclave you deny the facts. Why do we keep beating our heads against the wall.

12 million people representing the most important region of a country of 36 million people is a "local enclave"? That's awesome.

Let's have a lengthy and rancorous discussion about this. Or maybe, instead of acting like blathering idiots, why not look at the issue from another perspective. Which is this:

If southern Ontario had even one-half the enthusiasm for the CFL that a place like Saskatchewan does, then none of this would be an issue. I don't understand how that isn't obvious.

Originally Posted by elly63

From the Angus Reid poll...The NHL is the most closely followed league, according to the survey, with the CFL a distant second (40 per cent to 21 per cent).

And those number perfectly reflect the very lack of support for CFL in southern Ontario by contrast with the west. If the CFL were big here, there's no way that the percentage of followers would only be 20 to 40 percent across the country.

This is elementary logic and reason. And fact, as you've given in your post. You can love the CFL all you want, but that doesn't mean anything to people here.

Instead of arguing against facts, which is stupid, you should be arguing for promotional strategies if you really care about how many people in, yes, the country's most important region, are following the CFL.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by YoungRepublic

Unless NCAA basketball is bigger in Canada than the NBA, but I seriously doubt that.

Outside of the GTA it very well could be considering the popularity of MM. Unless the Raps are in the playoffs with a chance I don't know of anybody who cares about the NBA, but unlike most here, I will qualify that as being in my circle of people I have contact with.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by rousseau

If the CFL were big here, there's no way that the percentage of followers would only be 20 to 40 percent across the country.

No one has ever said the CFL was big in the GTA, what we've said was that it was bigger than the claim that nobody cares about it at all. It goes back to the Jim Hunt quote from years ago, many GTA wannabes decry the CFL existence and yet will watch it on TV, and yes that is fu**ed. That was the CFL commissioner's frustration, that they couldn't equate the numbers watching on TV with the poor attendance of late.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by rousseau

It's not the U.S.'s main sports league.

You misunderstood. I was referring to the NBA here in Ontario. I was just confirming you think the Raptors, who are followed by fewer Ontarians than the Argos, to be "small potatoes," a "non-entity" and "barely on the radar" too.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by elly63

No one has ever said the CFL was big in the GTA, what we've said was that it was bigger than the claim that nobody cares about it at all.

Well then...what the fuck are you arguing with me about the CFL's lack of popularity in southern Ontario for then? Have trouble with reading comprehension?

Learn to read. Then make your post. What a waste of time this exchange was. Christ.

The CFL has fans in southern Ontario, yes. But they are limited to pockets of Hamilton and Toronto, and they are virtually non-existent in the rest of southern Ontario.

There is precisely zero evidence in Stratford that the Grey Cup is on tomorrow. Absolutely zero. Maybe it will be on one TV in the sports bar here. If that. But there are no signs, nobody is talking about it, there is nothing in the shops or on the streets.

Try to imagine a town two hours of outside of Indianapolis not showing any evidence of the Super Bowl on game day if the Indianapolis team were in it. You can't. It's not possible.

[rousseau]

I'll admit to a certain lack of objectivity on the issue. I do really, seriously loathe American/Canadian football, and have trouble taking the game and its fans seriously.

So there's that. And this is why I'm reacting a bit strongly to the suggestion that the CFL is anything other than it is around here. You're sitting halfway across the country (I presume) and trying to tell me what it's like here. I'm right here, and can tell you exactly what it's like here, and yet you're arguing against me.

I mean, a pharmacist at my local Shopper's is originally from Saskatchewan, and once I struck up a conversation with him when he was wearing a Rider's jersey behind the counter. He was happy to talk about his enthusiasm for the team, and lamented the fact that he had nobody to watch games with here. I'm talking any CFL game, not the Roughriders in particular.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Yes, the NBA is small potatoes everywhere in Canada.

Excellent. Therefore, you also maintain that the NFL lacks popularity in Southern Ontario, since the CFL's ratings in this region are equal to or greater than the NFL's.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by rousseau

What a waste of time this exchange was. I'll admit to a certain lack of objectivity on the issue. I do really, seriously loathe American/Canadian football, and have trouble taking the game and its fans seriously.

Yes your words are priceless, thank you for taking the time to honour we in the non important parts of the country, with them. We are blessed, after all we're no Stratford. And some of us have a hard time taking you seriously as well buying into the American dream. FFS it's the 2010's not 1980.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

You misunderstood. I was referring to the NBA here in Ontario. I was just confirming you think the Raptors, who are followed by fewer Ontarians than the Argos, to be "small potatoes," a "non-entity" and "barely on the radar" too.

No, you asked if I thought the NBA was small potatoes in the U.S. Go back and look at your post again.

Is the NBA small potatoes in Canada? Yes, obviously. Except maybe for certain neighbourhoods in Toronto, where the Raptors have a high profile.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Excellent. Therefore, you also maintain that the NFL lacks popularity in Southern Ontario, since the CFL's ratings in this region are equal to or greater than the NFL's.

Sic 'em Fido

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Excellent. Therefore, you also maintain that the NFL lacks popularity in Southern Ontario, since the CFL's ratings in this region are equal to or greater than the NFL's.

That's certainly heartening for the CFL. Are things changing? Because in the more rural area of southern Ontario where I live, the NFL is king after hockey.

From your link:

Ratings for all CFL games were up 18 per cent from last year in Southern Ontario and the Hamilton-Toronto clash on Thanksgiving Day drew the league's fourth-largest TV audience of the season with 956,000 viewers.

The league won't supply actual audience numbers for what is known as the CFL's dead zone, which always makes the percentages a bit suspicious. For example, if 12 people watched lawnmower racing last year and 18 tuned in this year, that's a 50 per cent increase. So straight percentages don't really carry a lot of weight.

But I've seen actual Southern Ontario numbers in my previous incarnation and they're generally in line with NFL audiences and Blue Jays audiences -- so the increases are significant.

In some ways it's obvious why ratings are up in Southern Ontario. After years of providing putrid to mediocre football, the Argos are putting an entertaining, winning team on the field. That certainly fuels TV ratings.

The Hamilton situation is a bit of a mystery. The team was, once again, mediocre and playing what basically amounted to 18 road games certainly was a challenge.

Maybe it was the checkered end zone in Guelph that drew in viewers. Maybe it was the mystery of which Henry Burris would show up that drove interest. Or maybe it was the Hamilton folks who watched on TV instead of driving to Guelph.

Whatever the reason, the CFL has to celebrate a victory in a region where it has had few in recent years. And it can look forward to the day it revives the Labour Day Classic in Hamilton -- a game that almost always nears or exceeds the million mark.

If numbers are going up, then good for the CFL. But what I've bolded does reflect how things are here on the ground.

[elly63]

It comes down to this, Hamilton is back. Even with the BS surrounding the construction of the new stadium, Hamilton has turned the corner in the hearts and minds of their fans and is on the way to prosperity. Toronto has to do the same. Change the game experience for the fan in the new stadium (BMO) and find 25k crazy people in a city of millions. After moving and changing the fan experience if they can't attract 25k they deserve to go under.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by rousseau

From your link:

From my link:

But while overall ratings increases give the league something to crow about, that's not the real big news. The big news is that they're being driven by the most unlikely source of all: Southern Ontario. Ratings for games involving the Toronto Argonauts were up 26 per cent from last year while audiences for Hamilton (Guelph) Tiger-Cats games rose 14 per cent.

Ratings for all CFL games were up 18 per cent from last year in Southern Ontario and the Hamilton-Toronto clash on Thanksgiving Day drew the league's fourth-largest TV audience of the season with 956,000 viewers.

The league won't supply actual audience numbers for what is known as the CFL's dead zone, which always makes the percentages a bit suspicious. For example, if 12 people watched lawnmower racing last year and 18 tuned in this year, that's a 50 per cent increase. So straight percentages don't really carry a lot of weight.

But I've seen actual Southern Ontario numbers in my previous incarnation and they're generally in line with NFL audiences and Blue Jays audiences -- so the increases are significant.

Therefore, even before Southern Ontario audiences increased by 26%, Argo audiences were "in line" with NFL audiences and Blue Jays audiences. Which means you maintain that both the NFL and the Blue Jays lack popularity in Southern Ontario.

That's good to know.

[YoungRepublic]

Originally Posted by elly63

Considering that the CFL is still more popular than the NFL in most of Canada why isn't the CIS regularly broadcast? The EPL gets rated in the Top 20 sports of the week why don't we show Conference league games? Why do some want to suck on the teat of a foreign country to the exclusion and betterment of their own?

Well for what it's worth I think Canadian media should do a better job of reporting/showing/growing the CIS as well. It goes without saying but US College sports is a different beast. Most Canadians are probably indifferent to the CIS, unlike in the United States where it's a way of life for certain cities and towns. Universities here need to do a better job of investing in sports to help grow the CIS too. It can't just be on Canadian media.

[rousseau]

Is he comparing single-game Blue Jays audiences (165 games per season) with single-game CFL audiences (18 games per season)?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by YoungRepublic

Most Canadians are probably indifferent to the CIS, unlike in the United States where it's a way of life for certain cities and towns. Universities here need to do a better job of investing in sports to help grow the CIS too. It can't just be on Canadian media.

There's a great interview with Carleton basketball coach Dave Smart posted in this thread. This is the guy whose basketball program is as good as teams in the MM. He basically says that US programs are bigger than they should be and Canadian programs are smaller than they should be. It is not incumbent on the universities to invest money in sports, they are in the education business and I think the majority of Canadians support that.

But it is criminal what our big two sports broadcasters are doing. They could invest (time, effort, money) in these CIS programs as TSN did with the CFL and over time achieve results. There isn't a large audience in this country clamouring for NCAA sports, so what is their motive in airing it.

The same with NFL football. TSN knows it has a successful property on their own network (CFL) so they (Bell) build strategies to popularize the NFL on the main (non cable) network. That's business, but unfortunately the wider the exposure for the NFL the more it takes away from the CFL and that's wrong.