Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Correct me if I'm wrong, I wasn't living in the area during the Olympics, but weren't the viaducts closed to traffic during the games with next to no major traffic issues? If this were the case, I'm sure that removing a short section of unconnected freeway will have little major effect.

During the Olympics, our downtown office was largely empty, and I think lots of others were too. So there would not have been the regular commuter flows of traffic. A lot of people also avoided the downtown and went on vacation.

So the closure would not have been a good "test case".

That said, traffic will - always - redistribute.

You'll see North Shore traffic diverted through the DTES and Gastown, and Hwy 1 1st Ave. traffic diverted to the new "superroad" and Georgia or Smithe (and maybe even to Quebec, West 2nd and Cambie Bridge), and some will choose to exit Hwy 1 earlier at Grandview (instead of 1st Ave.) and take 12th Ave / Clark Drive, GNW, West 2nd and Cambie Bridge.

[Pinion]

Drop in car usage is a result of costs of driving going up, everyone having less money and infrastructure being horrible. Making it more horrible voluntarily doesn't help.

[s211]

Originally Posted by officedweller

During the Olympics, our downtown office was largely empty, and I think lots of others were too. So there would not have been the regular commuter flows of traffic. A lot of people also avoided the downtown and went on vacation.

So the closure would not have been a good "test case".

Indeed. I was amazed at how empty various companies were during the Olympics, and not because everyone was out partying.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by s211

Indeed. I was amazed at how empty various companies were during the Olympics, and not because everyone was out partying.

I remember reading at the time that some of these 'olympic vacationers' were a bit miffed that they missed out on the other events happening around town during the olympics.

Its nice to be on a warm beach with a cold drink, but annoying to be reminded several times a day that you're missing the 'party of the century' back home.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Of interest from the Perkins + Will blog:


http://blog.perkinswill.com/the-underneath-space-reclaiming-reconnecting-people-in-the-city/

The Vancouver House development on Beach & Howe includes short buildings set between the ramps & Granville bridge.


source:http://www.buzzbuzzhome.com/vancouver-house



Source: http://www.westender.com/news/vancouver-house-introduces-gwerk-to-the-world-1.914679

If they can make it "gwerke" there, why not east of GM Place?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

I remember reading at the time that some of these 'olympic vacationers' were a bit miffed that they missed out on the other events happening around town during the olympics.

Its nice to be on a warm beach with a cold drink, but annoying to be reminded several times a day that you're missing the 'party of the century' back home.

Yes I remember so many people talking trash about the games prior to their arrival. I don't remember it afterwards, and nobody seemed to admit that they were away either.

It was a great time!

[trofirhen]

I would like to see a clear, easy-to-understand plan and renders of the new intersection
structures, lights, turns, lane usauge, road surface angle / flow design ...... before anything else.
The engineers here might appreciate that, too.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yes I remember so many people talking trash about the games prior to their arrival. I don't remember it afterwards, and nobody seemed to admit that they were away either.

It was a great time!

It's funny and this is off topic but I would be very happy to have them back again especially if no other city would be interested. The city had a great vibe and overall people were happy and in a good mood!

Overall the infrastructure is too new and the reasons for tearing it down certainly aren't compelling enough to do it especially when you look at the vancouver house development and the way they are integrating the bridges. They certainly could make for some interesting development over there but again that doesn't fit the VV agenda.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by theKB

Overall the infrastructure is too new and the reasons for tearing it down certainly aren't compelling enough to do it especially when you look at the vancouver house development and the way they are integrating the bridges. They certainly could make for some interesting development over there but again that doesn't fit the VV agenda.

What does fit the VV agenda? in detail? Do you know?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Correct me if I'm wrong, I wasn't living in the area during the Olympics, but weren't the viaducts closed to traffic during the games with next to no major traffic issues? If this were the case, I'm sure that removing a short section of unconnected freeway will have little major effect.

Many people who usually commute totally avoided downtown altogether during the period. Even then, should have seen how cramped the skytrains and buses were during that time.

[SOSS]

People leaving their cars at home due to various reasons ($ for car, $ for related expenses like fuel insurance and parking) = more people on public transit = free space on existing infrastructure for things like transport trucks. I'd say redesign roads now and let the developers pay DIRECTLY for it. They want the land, they can pay for it.

[Metro-One]

Again, it is not being pro-car anti bike and transit, its the complete opposite!

The viaducts can be used to create a very interesting urban space, with shops and weather protected sports facilities / public spaces below (far more interesting than the giant open grass field being proposed).

Also, why not reduce traffic on the at grade streets (such as Hastings) and funnel it all onto the viaducts! Instead of taking away the viaducts and putting that traffic (even if reduced in number) onto the surface streets.

Honestly, I think Water street should be closed to general purpose traffic (maybe only delivery and emergency vehicles) and that traffic should then be absorbed by the viaducts.

The viaducts are relatively high and have very widely spaced single pillars, very easy to build under and around compared to most elevated structures in the world.

There is an elevated train viaduct thread on the transportation section, and many fantastic images / samples have been posted about really cool, funky, and unique urban spaces that have been built under such structures from world class cities from around the world.

So sorry, this idea that those who want to keep the viaducts are anti-transit and cycling is ridiculous and a classic black and white view point from Vancouver style environmentalism.



I also want to use this opportunity to point out the hypocrisy in some of VV stats, they are against the Vancouver Streetcar system, even though the Olympic streetcar demo line was a huge success, but they dismiss this ridership data as being non reliable because it was during a major special event......yet the viaduct data during this same major special event is okay for justification?????

[Metro-One]

One last note, some of the empty space under the viaducts was originally going to be used as the OMC for the Vancouver streetcar network.

I dont know, to me the development around the stadiums (with the viaducts in place) and having a functional street car OMC under an elevated roadway feels far more urban (and functional), and interesting, than an empty grassy field soon to be there...

vancouver has too much of a need for everything to be pretty and resort like. True big cities have gritty utilitarian funky districts. This is one thing I love about Japanese cities, the amazing layering and built urban environments.

This is why it amazes me that skytrain was ever built in metro-vancouver, it is utilitarian, layered, urban, and in your fucking face

[Klazu]

Why won't they get started by building the connector to First Avenue? Is it because that would actually increase the traffic on the viaducts and thus work against their agenda here?

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yes I remember so many people talking trash about the games prior to their arrival. I don't remember it afterwards, and nobody seemed to admit that they were away either.

It was a great time!

What are you supposed to say afterwards? It was shoved down our throats without any choice, for those not in Vancouver proper at least, and now the IOC and its contractors have moved on with their pockets full. Lots of people still think it was a bad idea and I'm shocked people still think two weeks of "good feelings" was worth all that money. We had no residual benefits (except for the fast-tracking of the sea-to-sky highway improvements and Canada line) which was the the whole argument before the games.

Totally off topic, but you brought it up.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Why won't they get started by building the connector to First Avenue? Is it because that would actually increase the traffic on the viaducts and thus work against their agenda here?

The Malkin connector - yes, I would say that's a safe assumption - don't improve the existing, so they'll wait til the demolition.

[Klazu]

The connector would be fantastic for car traffic heading in/out of Downtown and they could always buid a bikeway along side of it.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The Malkin connector - yes, I would say that's a safe assumption - don't improve the existing, so they'll wait til the demolition.

interesting thought and I remember the mayor saying Malkin would be build before they are torn down .... guess he changed his mind ........

as your right it would increase use of the viaducts and therefor go against the supposed logic of demoing them

[WarrenC12]

The problem with integrating the viaducts today is what happens in 30 years when they really are in terrible shape and not worth keeping. You have to think long term...

[SOSS]

Are there any maps or images of how the streetcar would integrate in and around the existing viaducts? I would hope that any future plans would incorporate the streetcar. What would be the full route?

It was very successful during the games and will be very successful in the future. I suspect its not on VV current radar because the Broadway corridor is front and centre. But once Broadway is approved they would shift gears. I'd say leave space... always leave space. Too difficult if not impossible to build afterwards.