YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by casper

Any thoughts what the impact wil be on the Philippines airline service between Vancouver and Toronto where they do not have rights to local traffic?

I would think they would codeshare into YYZ as well from YUL, YOW and YHZ etc.

Into YVR I would see the obvious YYC, YEG, YWG, YYJ, YLW among others...

[trofirhen]

Speaking of Westjet linking up by codeshare with foreign airlines, this fairly recent - {2 months and three weeks}
.....(hope not all of you have seen it) - clip on the YVR connecter, and what all it'll be able to do, might or might not be interesting.
For me, the potential future direct connections with foreign airlines through future swing gates, and the new high-speed baggage system were highlights:

Short, but informative:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPJDln6XY4g

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Speaking of Westjet linking up by codeshare with foreign airlines, this fairly recent - {2 months and three weeks}
.....(hope not all of you have seen it) - clip on the YVR connecter, and what all it'll be able to do, might or might not be interesting.
For me, the potential future direct connections with foreign airlines through future swing gates, and the new high-speed baggage system were highlights:

Short, but informative:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPJDln6XY4g

I think it's projects like this that will help keep YVR competitive. Seems like they knew something we didn't (ie Westjet becoming the true "feeder" for all non Star Alliance carriers.) This quick connector will allow faster pax movement between International / Domestic A/B.

[Johnny Aussie]

About the Dreamliner on Asian routes from YVR.

I was kind of thinking it was another new route announcment... But nothing really new here. But AC getting the message out...

They are ready to play ball against any team out there!

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=832

[deasine]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Speaking of Westjet linking up by codeshare with foreign airlines, this fairly recent - {2 months and three weeks}
.....(hope not all of you have seen it) - clip on the YVR connecter, and what all it'll be able to do, might or might not be interesting.
For me, the potential future direct connections with foreign airlines through future swing gates, and the new high-speed baggage system were highlights:

Short, but informative:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPJDln6XY4g

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I think it's projects like this that will help keep YVR competitive. Seems like they knew something we didn't (ie Westjet becoming the true "feeder" for all non Star Alliance carriers.) This quick connector will allow faster pax movement between International / Domestic A/B.

I brought this up earlier in 2012 during the release of the renderings:

Originally Posted by deasine

This brings (part of) the domestic terminal to the International Terminal standard. I noticed there's an overhead walkway: could be just a service walkway, but it could also hint that these gates can somehow serve International Arrivals. This would be useful, since there are only three gates at YVR that are dual-purpose International/Domestic gates. So flights coming in from ICN/HKG/NRT/SYD, for instance, going onwards to YYZ can take advantage of these gates. Though this renovation is quite far away from the International Terminal...

I can't seem to find the detailed masterplan document but actually YVR has always considered changing its terminal structure from its current domestic/international/transborder setup to one based on codesharing/alliance, which speaks to the trends of terminal allocation throughout the world now.

It's a goal of YVR to speed up transfers and I'm sure the infrastructure itself to make the airport more attractive for airlines. I don't think YVR "knew" all of WS business goals but at the end of the day, it is in the airport authority's best interest to allow for its customers (the airlines) to expand.

On another perspective, this also allows the airport to increase its resilience. If the airport requires an expansion (which is a sunk cost), it might as well build in flexibility in its operation to allow for multiple uses. With the current airport setup, intl flights cannot use domestic gates despite those being empty due to constraints in its infrastructure. But if swing operations can be allowed, there could be a better use of infrastructure to prevent further (and arguably unnecessary) expansion.

[Gordon]

Will any of the new gates in the A\B connector capable of handling widebody Jets.

West Jet uses gate B12 as a swing gate for mainline & ENCORE (A12)

Has the cannopy structure that is used for Gates A 8-10 been extended to the gate B12 area?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Will any of the new gates in the A\B connector capable of handling widebody Jets.

West Jet uses gate B12 as a swing gate for mainline & ENCORE (A12)

Has the cannopy structure that is used for Gates A 8-10 been extended to the gate B12 area?

Technically speaking, any narrowbody gate can be used by widebody aircraft. However the use of widebody aircraft at narrowbody gates will curtail operations at adjacent gates. Additionally, airport facilities might curtailj multiple widebody aircraft from being serviced at I same time. Example was 25 years ago at old YEG terminal had practical facility constraint of one widebody aircraft at time, 2 wide body aircraft resulted in facility constraints at customs, bag claim, checkin, preboard security, hold rooms.

[Johnny Aussie]

Calvin Rovinescu addressing Vancouver Board of Trade this morning and here some tweets from YVR airport about it....

“@yvrairport: YVR will be the fastest-growing hub in entire @AirCanada network in 2015! #VBOT”

“@yvrairport: In the first 9 months of 2014 @AirCanada has seen an increase of 13% in cargo shipped from YVR. #VBOT @BoardofTrade”

“@yvrairport: "In the first 9 months of 2014, U.S. connecting traffic through YVR is up 25 per cent." - Calin Rovinescu, CEO @AirCanada #vbot”

This one is a bit pie in the sky... But anyway...

“@iainblack_vbot: "@yvrairport has the potential to be one of the great air travel hubs in the world...and we want to be part of that." @AirCanada CEO @ #vbot”

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Will any of the new gates in the A\B connector capable of handling widebody Jets.

West Jet uses gate B12 as a swing gate for mainline & ENCORE (A12)

Has the cannopy structure that is used for Gates A 8-10 been extended to the gate B12 area?

Originally Posted by Cage

Technically speaking, any narrowbody gate can be used by widebody aircraft. However the use of widebody aircraft at narrowbody gates will curtail operations at adjacent gates. Additionally, airport facilities might curtailj multiple widebody aircraft from being serviced at I same time. Example was 25 years ago at old YEG terminal had practical facility constraint of one widebody aircraft at time, 2 wide body aircraft resulted in facility constraints at customs, bag claim, checkin, preboard security, hold rooms.

Just a general question: would not YVR and its engineering and technical divisions be able to work something out? Or is the innovation and expertise for this precision task not there?

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Calvin Rovinescu addressing Vancouver Board of Trade this morning and here some tweets from YVR airport about it....

“@yvrairport: YVR will be the fastest-growing hub in entire @AirCanada network in 2015! #VBOT”

“@yvrairport: In the first 9 months of 2014 @AirCanada has seen an increase of 13% in cargo shipped from YVR. #VBOT @BoardofTrade”

“@yvrairport: "In the first 9 months of 2014, U.S. connecting traffic through YVR is up 25 per cent." - Calin Rovinescu, CEO @AirCanada #vbot”

This one is a bit pie in the sky... But anyway...

“@iainblack_vbot: "@yvrairport has the potential to be one of the great air travel hubs in the world...and we want to be part of that." @AirCanada CEO @ #vbot”

Wow! Does this mean YVR will be Rouge's western hub or are we talkin' even better - AC's western hub?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Wow! Does this mean YVR will be Rouge's western hub or are we talkin' even better - AC's western hub?

In answer to that - which I cannot give - here is the opinion of a airline writer:
He calls Montreal and Toronto "hubs," while YVR is referred to as a "mini hub."
Hope that chnges, but neverless, it's lucky that YVR has so many foreign airlines flying into it.

http://www.airreview.com/Canada/Routes.htm

or look at this this, and make your own decision:

http://centreforaviation.com/images/stories/2012/aug/21/aircan_route.png

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

In answer to that - which I cannot give - here is the opinion of a airline writer:
He calls Montreal and Toronto "hubs," while YVR is referred to as a "mini hub."

Yeah, an article from an "airline writer" from years ago, who cannot spell Ottawa correctly or calls St. John's "StJohn." Hmmmm. Yup definitely reliable! Very well written... Hmmmm.

Did you actually read his article? Do you actually seek anything that even casts the slightest doubt as to YVR's presence in this world?

In any event the question from Denscity was... is YVR AC's Western hub? The answer is, yes, YVR is one of two Western hubs for AC.

Fact----> AC has a larger operation at YVR than YUL... So I guess you can... Like you say... "Make your own decision ."

Again... Let's not let the facts get in the way of some poorly written article with an uneducated opinion in it.

[trofirhen]

When already large and extensive United Airlines toook over Continental in 2012, they naturally retained most or all of Continental's destinations. Continental was Houston's main carrier, and Newark was opening a Global Gateway project.

Here's what United added or enhanced when they did that stock swap:
if interested just scroll down to destinations. A good example of what a "smaller" (not belonging to the big three) could do. Interesting airline, Continental.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Airlines_destinations

On a tangent, whereas it would seem most people would instictively prefer New York JFK over Newark, as Newark woukd probably be dirtier, pokier, with
fewer dstinations, first, (if interested) count the number of foreign airlines that fly there. Just about everything. Then add in United (which woukld have been Continental)
Seems like a great airport to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark_Liberty_International_Airport

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Fact----> AC has a larger operation at YVR than YUL...

AC put out a presser recently stating that by summer '15 stating they would have 2000 flights per week out of YUL. Haven't seen anything comparable for YVR but doubt it's as high as that. But measured by number of seats, i'd guess YVR is bigger than YUL given the proportion of longhaul flights to Asia.

A bit surprised to hear that YVR will be the fastest growing hub in the network since AC is predicting 20% growth for YUL in 2015. Guess it's the new KIX flight plus the switch from 763s to 787s.

Regardless, AC has a major operation at YVR and it's great to see the growth in cargo and US connecting passengers (although the cynic in me notes the distinct lack of data in terms of hard numbers -- could be from a low base).

Originally Posted by trofirhen

On a tangent, whereas it would seem most people would instictively prefer New York JFK over Newark, as Newark woukd probably be dirtier, pokier, with
fewer dstinations, first, (if interested) count the number of foreign airlines that fly there. Just about everything. Then add in United (which woukld have been Continental)
Seems like a great airport to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark_Liberty_International_Airport

I like Newark better than JFK, which actually doesn't say very much. Remember there is a huge corporate presence in New Jersey, and very few of these people will want to fight traffic up to JFK to catch a flight. On a side note, there were few things more depressing for me than to take the red-eye from SFO to Newark in the middle of winter to catch an early morning meeting in Basking Ridge.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Yeah, an article from an "airline writer" from years ago, who cannot spell Ottawa correctly or calls St. John's "StJohn." Hmmmm. Yup definitely reliable! Very well written... Hmmmm.

Did you actually read his article? Do you actually seek anything that even casts the slightest doubt as to YVR's presence in this world?

In any event the question from Denscity was... is YVR AC's Western hub? The answer is, yes, YVR is one of two Western hubs for AC.

Fact----> AC has a larger operation at YVR than YUL... So I guess you can... Like you say... "Make your own decision ."

Again... Let's not let the facts get in the way of some poorly written article with an uneducated opinion in it.

... of course, Johnnie !! I was perusing the topic, and naîvely stumbled onto that!!! YVR was, not so many decades ago, a largely domestic airport, always with some overseas flights, yes, but an airport which, if travelling to the USA other than California, you had to go everywhere else by changing at Seattle. For nearly all destinations
overseas, (although CP had runs to Tokyo ahd HK a milk tun through Lima, Santiag,to Buenos Aires, you had to change at Toronto, or even moreso Montreal, at that time.
The 1968 terminal was ok, but too small; but the addition of the international terminal
and the A/B Connector underway, the YVR complex is well-integrated,and innovative in design,and, wow! The destinations, number of airlines, and pax expansion
numbers speak for themselves. YVR is radiating!!!
I'm not knocking YVR!!

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

AC put out a presser recently stating that by summer '15 stating they would have 2000 flights per week out of YUL. Haven't seen anything comparable for YVR but doubt it's as high as that. But measured by number of seats, i'd guess YVR is bigger than YUL given the proportion of longhaul flights to Asia.

A bit surprised to hear that YVR will be the fastest growing hub in the network since AC is predicting 20% growth for YUL in 2015. Guess it's the new KIX flight plus the switch from 763s to 787s.

Regardless, AC has a major operation at YVR and it's great to see the growth in cargo and US connecting passengers (although the cynic in me notes the distinct lack of data in terms of hard numbers -- could be from a very low base. And what about yields?).

Agree with every statement you just made.
When I quoted the twitter quotes I left opinion out the window. I realise his statements, of course, were tailored specifically to his audience. I prefer using numbers and percentages to make statements rather than blanket statements.
However, having said that and for his sake I would hope his statements do have some supporting evidence especially if requested. Although I assume some of it would be highly private. My understanding is there is still more to come for YVR next year so unsure if that has been factored into the "fastest growing" hub statement.

I am all for debate too about the merits of YVR and AC's operation there. I would just hope any counter arguments have some (legible, credible) evidence to support it. Right now, based on all the info, stats, statements etc being presented about YVR, there appears to be a lot of evidence to support it.

In regards to YUL 2000 flights per week (assume that's total operations and not departures) is approx 285 per day whereas YVR is around 320 per day right now and probably increasing next year. So not sure... But yes in any event YVR's AC ops are pretty substantial.

[Hourglass]

^^

More to come? That's great! Anything (non-confidential) you can share? Maybe a hint about a CAN or MEL flight?

Is it my imagination, or does it seem that relations between YVR and AC seem to be a lot warmer than in recent history? Seems to be a bit of a mutual admiration society going on atm lol

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

^^

More to come? That's great! Anything (non-confidential) you can share? Maybe a hint about a CAN or MEL flight?

Is it my imagination, or does it seem that relations between YVR and AC seem to be a lot warmer than in recent history? Seems to be a bit of a mutual admiration society going on atm lol

someone in YVR marketing told me about Brisbane, supposed to be coming online this year. I'm assuming it's true. AC 787.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

^^

More to come? That's great! Anything (non-confidential) you can share? Maybe a hint about a CAN or MEL flight?

Is it my imagination, or does it seem that relations between YVR and AC seem to be a lot warmer than in recent history? Seems to be a bit of a mutual admiration society going on atm lol

There should be a little bit more rouge flying plus more next winter as well but rouge growth should slow down anyway... and there is still some more potential Dreamliner stuff... if not 2015 into 2016.

Of course the obvious publicly stated stuff like CAN, MEL, BNE, DEL etc is still being tossed around. Nothing concrete and I do keep confidentiality just that.

And I actually don't think YVR and AC have really ever had that sour a relationship... well maybe a little bit? There is the perception of some that AC is very YYZ-centric. But to be fair, has this perception ever changed in the last 30 years? As a company they are just doing what would (hopefully) maximise the profits for the shareholders. I still believe an airline will allocate its resources where profitabilty is more likely. Despite what other markets perceive, AC must be doing something right to get the results they are showing. They are certainly giving YVR love right now which gives this perception, but again, I don't think YVR and AC have ever really had that negative relationship?

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Agree with every statement you just made.
When I quoted the twitter quotes I left opinion out the window. I realise his statements, of course, were tailored specifically to his audience. I prefer using numbers and percentages to make statements rather than blanket statements.
However, having said that and for his sake I would hope his statements do have some supporting evidence especially if requested. Although I assume some of it would be highly private. My understanding is there is still more to come for YVR next year so unsure if that has been factored into the "fastest growing" hub statement.

I am all for debate too about the merits of YVR and AC's operation there. I would just hope any counter arguments have some (legible, credible) evidence to support it. Right now, based on all the info, stats, statements etc being presented about YVR, there appears to be a lot of evidence to support it.

In regards to YUL 2000 flights per week (assume that's total operations and not departures) is approx 285 per day whereas YVR is around 320 per day right now and probably increasing next year. So not sure... But yes in any event YVR's AC ops are pretty substantial.

It's worth mentioning here (and I'm not knocking YVR either - just being realistic) that on a global level it's a bit of a stretch to call YVR an AC hub. Mainline AC operates 8 year-round and 3 seasonal international destinations out of YVR. Rouge operates 2 mainline and 2 seasonal international destinations (I'm including confirmed future routes as well). As for the US, mainline AC/AC Express operates 3 year-round destinations and Rouge operates 3. Seasonal US is all Rouge and there are 3 destinations. If you look at domestic AC/AC Express ops out of YVR there are 24 destinations, most of which are Express to BC routes. So if you total this up, AC mainline and Rouge year-round and seasonal operate 15 international destinations out of YVR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_International_Airport

While it may be nice and fluffy for AC to pander to the BOT audience that they were speaking to, when you look at true hubs globally, it's difficult to place YVR in that category. I don't dispute that YVR is either a mini-hub as was pointed out or a strong focus city for AC, or that growth is strong (it is indeed) but percentage growth needs context, and everyone knows what the context is.