DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[DenverPoke]

A CityTarget will be an absolute game-changer for downtown Denver. It's not necessarily the quality of the goods but the convenience of being able to pick up say a few food items, a pair of socks, an IPod, and a coffee pot in one trip. This is currently not an option downtown.

And they aren't the behemoths like suburban box Targets. Here is Seattle's for example:

[bunt_q]

Seattle's City Target is amazing. I suppose I could buy all of those things on Amazon. Of course, then they send it UPS and it ends up locked in a leasing office until the 1 day per month when I can get there before 7pm to retrieve it. And you know, sometimes I just like to look at a thing before I buy it.

Where would a person buy a coffee pot, a pair of socks, and an IPod downtown? My answer would've been the Glendale target for all of those things, but apparently that makes me an unlightened caveman. But you go right ahead preaching about how people who live in the city "should" want to live. That's worked real well for the last 60 years. Reminder - Denver is still capturing an insignificant prioritizing of metro growth. Perhaps offering people the shopping they want (and housing for that matter), rather than the shopping you think they should want, would help that?

[DenverPoke]

And Portland's:



Hopefully fixing the construction defect laws will be the impetus for a truly 24-7 downtown Denver. If I had the money I would open an Ace Hardware downtown, the one in downtown San Diego has all the usual stuff but also carries small appliances and electronics. It's actually pretty sweet.

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Seattle's City Target is amazing. I suppose I could buy all of those things on Amazon. Of course, then they send it UPS and it ends up locked in a leasing office until the 1 day per month when I can get there before 7pm to retrieve it. And you know, sometimes I just like to look at a thing before I buy it.

Where would a person buy a coffee pot, a pair of socks, and an IPod downtown? My answer would've been the Glendale target for all of those things, but apparently that makes me an unlightened caveman. But you go right ahead preaching about how people who live in the city "should" want to live. That's worked real well for the last 60 years. Reminder - Denver is still capturing an insignificant prioritizing of metro growth. Perhaps offering people the shopping they want (and housing for that matter), rather than the shopping you think they should want, would help that?

Sure, Target would be great. The more options the better. I'd probably even occasionally go there when I need a large plastic bin. I personally think Whole Foods is THE game changer, but that's my opinion. The people in my building don't say, "I wish we had a Target." They say, "I wish we had a Whole Foods." I was just stirring the pot a little. Like I said, I don't mind Target one bit. I just don't have a love affair with it like some people.

Bunt, nobody is calling you an unenlightened caveman because you like the Glendale Target. The reality is that some people making observations on here about urban living and downtown trends are ACTUALLY living downtown, doing it, not just speculating and generalizing. I am not preaching. I am speaking from observation and personal experience. The best way to really understand a place is to spend prodigious amounts of time there and observe.

Denver IS adding the shopping people want (see: Whole Foods flagship store) and adding apartment units like its nobody's business. Clothing retail and other retail stores will no doubt follow close behind.

I don't think this is a fad one bit. This is a major cultural shift and it is taking place in many cities.

[seventwenty]

Clearly the game changer was a 7-11. You can get everything you need for urban living there!

[RyanD]

That's right.... Whole Foods is what everyone is excited for... The second most liked DenverInfill post in history was about a Whole Foods announcement. I keep forgetting about the demographics around Downtown Denver...

Don't get me wrong, I miss living downtown because of the atmosphere, restaurants, bars, etc but the realistic, larger retail amenities from Mississippi to Alameda along Colorado Blvd kick the crap out of Downtown. Oh and I can walk to Cherry Creek which well yeah... I have no business going downtown for fulfilling my true retail needs.

[Parker Lewis]

Originally Posted by DenverPoke

A CityTarget will be an absolute game-changer for downtown Denver. It's not necessarily the quality of the goods but the convenience of being able to pick up say a few food items, a pair of socks, an IPod, and a coffee pot in one trip. This is currently not an option downtown.

And they aren't the behemoths like suburban box Targets. Here is Seattle's for example:

First of all I will state that I'm more than happy about the much needed grocery stores. However, I'm going to step out and say, why can't we have a City Target too? My occupation causes me to make more trips to Target than the average person, so maybe I'm biased? It does surprise me a little that future market demand for a general merchandise retailer isn't strong enough for Target Corp to consider a downtown Denver location. With all the new local traffic, daily workforce and the ridiculous hotel occupancy, it seems they would take the plunge. I know there has been talk in the past, but it doesn't seem to me that it's very strong. I had hoped the mayor and his downtown retail initiative would've "seriously" focused on brining in some kind of big box retailer. I guess time will tell.

I'm going to get blasted for even mentioning this, but I feel that Walmart would be more proactive than Target has been if there was ANY chance they were wanted downtown. I doubt they are and 9th and Colorado is probably all the evidence needed. Anyway, I read an interesting article about one of their test concepts. It was an Express(rebranded to Neighborhood Market), offering same day merchandise orders in addition to the grocery and pharmacy products. Apparently they were quite pleased with it. I can see a concept like that filling in some of the voids of Amazon.

I've seen all the market studies and I just can't see why a few of the national retailers in Cherry Creek can't support a downtown location too. It doesn't seem to have hurt H&M too much, but I guess they aren't nearly as saturated as some of the other chains. I just can't stand all the low end touristy stores on the mall. I realize they serve a purpose, but we have to start shifting focus to more practical retailers for locals. Yes, I'm aware of the internet, but sometime I like to hold tangible goods in my hand before I purchase and wait for them. Sometimes I just need them NOW! Maybe Walmart's concept could work for other retailers and allow them to physically downsize space and overhead.

[DenverPoke]

Originally Posted by Parker Lewis

It surprises me a little that future market demand for a City Target isn't strong enough for Target Corp to consider a downtown Denver location. With all the new local traffic, daily workforce and the ridiculous hotel occupancy, it seems they would take the plunge. I know there has been talk in the past, but it doesn't seem to me that it's very strong. I had hoped the mayor and his downtown retail initiative would've "seriously" focused on brining in some kind of big box retailer. I guess time will tell.

I'm going to get blasted for even mentioning this, but I feel that Walmart would be more proactive than Target has been if there was ANY chance they were wanted downtown. I doubt they are and 9th and Colorado is probably all the evidence needed. Anyway, I read an interesting article about one of their test concepts. It was an Express(rebranded to Neighborhood Market), offering same day merchandise orders in addition to the grocery and pharmacy products. Apparently they were quite pleased with it. I can see a concept like that filling in some of the voids of Amazon.

I've seen all the market studies and I just can't see why a few of the national retailers in Cherry Creek can't support a downtown location too. It doesn't seem to have hurt H&M too much, but I guess they aren't nearly as saturated as some of the other chains. I just can't stand all the low end touristy stores on the mall. I realize they serve a purpose, but we have to start shifting focus to more practical retailers for locals. Yes, I'm aware of the internet, but sometime I like to hold tangible goods in my hand before I purchase and wait for them. Sometimes I just need them NOW! Maybe Walmart's concept could work for other retailers and allow them to physically downsize space and overhead.

There was an article a couple of years ago in either the Biz Journal or Post that said Target was looking downtown, and they've been mentioned as part of the Block 162 project in the past. Not sure where it will be but I bet there will be one either built or under construction within 5 years.

[comoneymaker]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

Well according to the Post the global economy is going down the shitter. Looks like we can say goodbye to Tabor 2 and/or 1144 15th St.

Anyone who says the economy is doing bad or is about to do bad is just another a-hole running in circles screaming the sky is falling cause they are anti Obama. CNN Money Market Watch and Yahoo Finance and on and on have been screaming and throwing fits about how the economy is about to tank and is tanking is all propaganda. The economy is doing much better than most think. The fed's should have raised the interest rate 5 years ago.

The only way the economy will tank is if the next pres is one of those repub wack jobs and they manage to undo what has been done over the last 6 years.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

If it was a car-storage issue, than we'd be seeing projects built with minimum parking requirements and car-storage facilities being constructed in River North. But developers are still putting above-minimum parking ratios in these projects.

I've read or heard on several occasions developers say (proudly) that they are doing X multi-family project with fewer parking spaces than required. I don't recall which ones exactly, but I've definitely heard this several times.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by comoneymaker

Anyone who says the economy is doing bad or is about to do bad is just another a-hole running in circles screaming the sky is falling cause they are anti Obama. CNN Money Market Watch and Yahoo Finance and on and on have been screaming and throwing fits about how the economy is about to tank and is tanking is all propaganda. The economy is doing much better than most think. The fed's should have raised the interest rate 5 years ago.

The Fed should have raised the Funds Rate in the midst of the Great Recession? Right.

There are challenges facing the US economy over the next few years that will create headwinds that will have a negative effect on the economy. Weakening demand out of China, the EU continues to be an fiscal and monetary basketcase, and challenges from OPEC to the US' new position as the major O&G nation to name a few.

[wong21fr]

Here's Continuum's latest version of the redevelopment of 9th & Colorado:

http://www.denvergov.org/sirepub/cache/2/gxsng0qbly3xle55abkzqq55/6648991119201408363475.PDF

Looks as if the only structures being reused is the parking garage, research bridge, and the old nurses' quarters. Everything else goes.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by RyanD

That's right.... Whole Foods is what everyone is excited for... The second most liked DenverInfill post in history was about a Whole Foods announcement. I keep forgetting about the demographics around Downtown Denver...

Don't get me wrong, I miss living downtown because of the atmosphere, restaurants, bars, etc but the realistic, larger retail amenities from Mississippi to Alameda along Colorado Blvd kick the crap out of Downtown. Oh and I can walk to Cherry Creek which well yeah... I have no business going downtown for fulfilling my true retail needs.

Remember, Ryan, if you're not making six-figures and can have a local messenger boy pick up your shit than downtown isn't for you.

[balugajames]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

If it was a car-storage issue, than we'd be seeing projects built with minimum parking requirements

That sure is a fallacy if I ever did see one. Change takes time. Also, you mention car storage not being built... Its called 'car sharing'...

I have lived downtown for 4 years. 2 in LoHi (Commons Park) and 2 in Uptown.

My wife and I share 1 car. She drives for work as its part of the job, but I never drive and haven't in months. In fact she is trying to find a job where she won't have to drive anymore. Sure we go to the mountains once every few weeks but aside from that, both of us prefer to not drive if we don't have to. Luckily for us, we made a conscious decision, as many others are, to live in a walkable area. Ever seen those walking scores on house listings? (Rhetorical)

It is hard for some but everyone I know is aspiring to find a place where they can too free themselves from the burdens of 'car' transit which is quite tiring.

I much prefer to read a good book or write a response to a blog post while on the train/bus or at the local coffee shop on my way into work.

Its a culture shift based on our understand of our elders mistakes around self identity, resource planning, and our place in this universe.. Plus as stated, the technology is coming in place to make it convenient.

[seventwenty]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Here's Continuum's latest version of the redevelopment of 9th & Colorado:

http://www.denvergov.org/sirepub/cache/2/gxsng0qbly3xle55abkzqq55/6648991119201408363475.PDF

Looks as if the only structures being reused is the parking garage, research bridge, and the old nurses' quarters. Everything else goes.

Not opening.

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by seventwenty

Not opening.

Yeh Denvergov's external links never seem to work ever. And the searching system sucks. Probably the worst municipal website out there.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by balugajames

That sure is a fallacy if I ever did see one. Change takes time. Also, you mention car storage not being built... Its called 'car sharing'...

I have lived downtown for 4 years. 2 in LoHi (Commons Park) and 2 in Uptown.

My wife and I share 1 car. She drives for work as its part of the job, but I never drive and haven't in months. In fact she is trying to find a job where she won't have to drive anymore. Sure we go to the mountains once every few weeks but aside from that, both of us prefer to not drive if we don't have to. Luckily for us, we made a conscious decision, as many others are, to live in a walkable area. Ever seen those walking scores on house listings? (Rhetorical)

It is hard for some but everyone I know is aspiring to find a place where they can too free themselves from the burdens of 'car' transit which is quite tiring.

I much prefer to read a good book or write a response to a blog post while on the train/bus or at the local coffee shop on my way into work.

Its a culture shift based on our understand of our elders mistakes around self identity, resource planning, and our place in this universe.. Plus as stated, the technology is coming in place to make it convenient.

How much time are we willing to concede in the, "change takes time" rational? Two years? Five years? Twenty years? Given the time that we've been talking about car-free lifestyles DT (for at least the last five years), I would think that we would see at least ONE heavily publicized car-storage facility to take advantage of people abandoning their vehicles and living in an apartment with their bike, their cat, the smell of their own self-assured farts and retrieving their car to head to the mountains on weekends. But it hasn't occurred yet.

My wife and I did live DT for three years, than two years in Old Town Littleton, and three years in Wash Park. During that time we spent four of those years as a one-car household and took sacrificed some time in order to commute via transit and to enjoy a semi car-free lifestyl (hell, we did it before car-sharing). But we still had to drive to the grocery store, to the cleaners, to Target, and to other retailers in all of those places. None of what you mentioned has changed that for downtown yet and a car-free lifestyle is still a net sacrifice and will continue to be so until the retail options really begin to multiply in DT and we see general merchandise stores, hardware stores, additional clothing companies, toy stores, etc. This is happening, albeit too slowly for me, but it's not going to be a reasonable option to go car-free for the vast majority of people.

Believe me, I would love to go back to commuting via train/bus to work instead of spending and 1-2 hours stuck in traffic. God how I would.

[COtoOC]

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

Yes, I've been there many times. What do you find amazing about it?

I don't find Target to be amazing. It's a much more pleasant experience than WalMart, but it's where I buy life's necessities. I need shampoo, toothpaste, paper towels, food, etc. and it's easy when most of life's necessities are under one roof. It saves me time!

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by seventwenty

Not opening.

Denver.gov is a tool of Satan.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by COtoOC

I don't find Target to be amazing. It's a much more pleasant experience than WalMart, but it's where I buy life's necessities. I need shampoo, toothpaste, paper towels, food, etc. and it's easy when most of life's necessities are under one roof. It saves me time!

For shame. You should really be doing all that at Whole Foods.