Phoenix Development News (3)

[PHXFlyer11]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/blog/...pands-to-scottsdale-plans-to.html?page=3

Another loss for Phoenix, and Tempe.

[Sepstein]

Nothing makes me more angry then hearing we cant build it that high cause FFA restrictions. Are supposed height limit are such bullshit! You guys ever been to Las Vegas or flew into JFK? Skyscrapers over 700 feet dont make a great downtown but if we cant even have one or two around ever that would be devastating. This site is called Skyscraper page no? Please tell me there hope lie if you must!

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/blog/...pands-to-scottsdale-plans-to.html?page=3

Another loss for Phoenix, and Tempe.

What's interesting is the mention of Reuben and Kate Gallego. The Scottsdale location this company has chosen is in neither one's district. I'm not blaming them; it's just frustrating that this company is coming to the Phoenix Metro Area but not to a forward-looking location near light rail and the urban core the Gallegos both represent.

[combusean]

The problem with Midtown towers (and likely other structures) is that they're all functionally obsolete--they were built and accordingly parked when tenants had far, far fewer employees per square foot. As a result, they can't provide parking or a modern floorplan for prospective tenants, despite their massive parking garages.

I don't really see a way around that, either. If a suburban space can provide all that with higher cachet or in a good area (Central Phoenix is still a big ghetto with bad schools for the most part, especially compared to Scottsdale or Chandler), tenants are going to go there.

As for Zenefits, I as an SF resident struggle to understand the connection between Scottsdale and SF/Bay Area besides the Giants' spring training home. The vibe between SF and Scottsdale feels like a polar opposite. And for their executive to call Phoenix a "tech hub" when they're not hiring for engineering jobs as a little silly.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

What's interesting is the mention of Reuben and Kate Gallego. The Scottsdale location this company has chosen is in neither one's district. I'm not blaming them; it's just frustrating that this company is coming to the Phoenix Metro Area but not to a forward-looking location near light rail and the urban core the Gallegos both represent.

Nobody is coming to the urban core. It really is a serious problem that needs to be addressed; vacancy rates or not, employment downtown cannot be sustained based on ASU, law firms, and the Biomedical Campus. Not one major employer has announced a move to downtown, other than those who are downsizing/looking for better space from the Midtown area.

I also disagree that what's happening in Midtown isn't important to look at when addressing Downtown vacancies and the office market. The light rail has all but connected the two, and it's important for the success of Downtown that Midtown be somewhat healthy. The fact that Downtown is "healthy" because of firms fleeing Midtown is not good news; Midtown needs to be a solid, successful, dense urban neighborhood that feeds into Downtown, not a ghost town 2 light rail stops away. This means that Downtown needs to start attracting NEW firms and companies and Midtown needs to stop the bleeding, whether that's through building upgrades a la Thomas/Central, or maybe even building conversions like One Lexington. Regardless, Downtown needs all of its adjacent neighborhoods to be thriving since so many have been gutted and blown to parts.

We're also seeing mid-sized companies turning to the Warehouse District where there are affordable options and momentum. I hope residential and nightlife can be mixed in eventually, but I'd rather see the District filled with business than empty and decaying. As more and more midsize firms flock to the area, residential demand has to shoot up for projects like the Ballpark Apartments.

[westbev93]

I work in one of the Midtown's obsolete buildings. They aren't great for attracting corporate tenants so why aren't more of these being converted to residential like Lexington was? I know Lexington struggled in the early going due to the timing of when it hit market (plus other factors I am probably overlooking), but the residential component seems to be doing okay now. With the light rail connection to downtown, it would seem that Midtown could serve as a place to get residential closer to the core than some far-flung suburb. I don't crunch numbers so I don't know how it pencils out, but it would seem to me that it would be cheaper to convert one of these older office buildings into residential rather than build residential from scratch. Certainly not as ideal as having the residential actually in downtown, but at least it serves to get people substantially closer to downtown while also doing something about the desertion of Midtown.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by westbev93

I work in one of the Midtown's obsolete buildings. They aren't great for attracting corporate tenants so why aren't more of these being converted to residential like Lexington was? I know Lexington struggled in the early going due to the timing of when it hit market (plus other factors I am probably overlooking), but the residential component seems to be doing okay now. With the light rail connection to downtown, it would seem that Midtown could serve as a place to get residential closer to the core than some far-flung suburb. I don't crunch numbers so I don't know how it pencils out, but it would seem to me that it would be cheaper to convert one of these older office buildings into residential rather than build residential from scratch. Certainly not as ideal as having the residential actually in downtown, but at least it serves to get people substantially closer to downtown while also doing something about the desertion of Midtown.

Generally people who own office buildings are not interested in the residential market. Therefore, the lack of tenants and rent from office space would have to be so dire that they would sell the building for pennies on the dollar just to get something back. That is not likely to happen anytime soon. They are better off reducing rents and waiting for new tenants.

If they did sell the building to a residential developer, keep in mind they would still have to invest tens of millions of dollars to convert the building. Nearly everything would need to be gutted and replaced. Especially when you consider balconies and such. It's not an easy process and in most cases is a last resort, and not an economically viable alternative to building a new residential complex from scratch.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

Generally people who own office buildings are not interested in the residential market. Therefore, the lack of tenants and rent from office space would have to be so dire that they would sell the building for pennies on the dollar just to get something back. That is not likely to happen anytime soon. They are better off reducing rents and waiting for new tenants.

If they did sell the building to a residential developer, keep in mind they would still have to invest tens of millions of dollars to convert the building. Nearly everything would need to be gutted and replaced. Especially when you consider balconies and such. It's not an easy process and in most cases is a last resort, and not an economically viable alternative to building a new residential complex from scratch.

That's disappointing to hear. I was hoping there were some efficiencies to be met when converting an existing building to residential. I just don't know what the other options are; it's a shame that the renovations at Thomas/Central didn't spark some investment by other landlords given the press and positive reviews it received. Updating the exterior of these buildings and modifying the street presence through retail additions is good for the urban vitality of Midtown, but doesn't address the fact that inside, the spaces just don't offer the specs companies are looking for.

Phoenix certainly can't be the only city with this issue; I wonder how other cities dealt with it (or, more likely, demand for central space is so high in other cities that Class B/C doesn't see the same sharp decline as here)? I was hoping residential conversion would be an option down the line, as like I said, the light rail has all but connected the two, and most central cores have separate CBD's and urban living areas anyway. Oh well.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Phoenix certainly can't be the only city with this issue; I wonder how other cities dealt with it (or, more likely, demand for central space is so high in other cities that Class B/C doesn't see the same sharp decline as here)? I was hoping residential conversion would be an option down the line, as like I said, the light rail has all but connected the two, and most central cores have separate CBD's and urban living areas anyway. Oh well.

I honestly don't see this so much of an issue or problem as it is simple supply and demand. ALL of that space would be filled at the right price point. So these building owners must either a) lower prices 2) improve the space or 3) some combination of both

It's certainly solvable, but it all depends on the threshold and tolerance of pain for the building owners that will force action.

[dtnphx]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I honestly don't see this so much of an issue or problem as it is simple supply and demand. ALL of that space would be filled at the right price point. So these building owners must either a) lower prices 2) improve the space or 3) some combination of both

It's certainly solvable, but it all depends on the threshold and tolerance of pain for the building owners that will force action.

Exactly! There was a flight to quality for many companies when rents were down. Many left midtown for downtown for that reason.

Phoenix depends on population growth and it is stagnant here for the past few years so until that happens not many small and midsize companies will lease those less desirable buildings in Midtown.

The way some of you talk, you reason that the suburbs are vastly superior in all aspects, when in fact, there are many others who rather work in a so-called "ghetto" (and if you've been anywhere else, Midtown is no ghetto) than to be forced into a suburban environment where everything is bright and shiny, all the restaurants are chains and it takes you forever to drive to. I wish those who claim to love urban life actually expressed it now and then. It seems like a suburban mindset....

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

I honestly don't see this so much of an issue or problem as it is simple supply and demand. ALL of that space would be filled at the right price point. So these building owners must either a) lower prices 2) improve the space or 3) some combination of both

It's certainly solvable, but it all depends on the threshold and tolerance of pain for the building owners that will force action.

I guess my question was - do these buildings become so obsolete that no price reduction will make them attractive to midsize companies? Sounds like you think the answer is no and that there would be demand with enough of a price reduction (I honestly have no clue).

I'm not sure how wanting Midtown's currently empty towers to fill up by either repositioning themselves in the market by lowering their price, or modifying their design to meet newer standards is a bad thing/sign of wanting companies to move to the suburbs. I'm asking how that can STOP. And, if it can't, what can be done with the towers to make the most use out of them in an urban way.

[phxKent]

Progress on the adaptive reuse of the First Baptist Church at 3rd and Monroe

https://www.facebook.com/azpreservation/posts/10152982485599050

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by phxKent

Progress on the adaptive reuse of the First Baptist Church at 3rd and Monroe

https://www.facebook.com/azpreservation/posts/10152982485599050

Cool. Hope this stimulates some activity in that portion of downtown. Tons of potential with older warehouses and empty lots that could make for some cool old meets new construction.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by dtnphx

Class A office space downtown is at 15.1%. Considering large blocks of Class A space are mostly unavailable downtown, that percentage is moot for a big user who needs a large block of space. And what's happening further up Central has nothing to do with the demand downtown.

Ridiculous. It's a tangled web. What is happening a mile up Central is absolutely connected to downtown. As many have stated in the past, downtown would have much greater stock of high rises had it not been for the development of the Central Corridor. That is absolutely true. The fact of the matter is that downtown and Midtown are past their primes and no one really wants anything to do with anymore. Apparently there are many who are living in a world of delusion, who think that Downtown is on its way back. No. There have been efforts for at least 45 years to bring downtown back. It hasn't worked. Newer is viewed as better here. That's just the way it is.

So many do backflips at State Farm's new regional headquarters in Tempe, not really thinking 20 or 30 years down the line when State Farm decides it wants to move out to East Mesa or whatever low density hot spot is available at that time, leaving their current buildings empty and viewed as old and functionally obsolete.

Downtown had its turn and now it's time to move on.

Originally Posted by Sepstein

Nothing makes me more angry then hearing we cant build it that high cause FFA restrictions. Are supposed height limit are such bullshit! You guys ever been to Las Vegas or flew into JFK? Skyscrapers over 700 feet dont make a great downtown but if we cant even have one or two around ever that would be devastating. This site is called Skyscraper page no? Please tell me there hope lie if you must!

The flight patterns into JFK and McCarran are much different than Phoenix. Neither airport requires flights directly over the high rises before landing. Our downtown is directly in the flight paths for Sky Harbor. Unless the runways were oriented north to south, there's really no way around that.

[Butta]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Ridiculous. It's a tangled web. What is happening a mile up Central is absolutely connected to downtown. As many have stated in the past, downtown would have much greater stock of high rises had it not been for the development of the Central Corridor. That is absolutely true. The fact of the matter is that downtown and Midtown are past their primes and no one really wants anything to do with anymore. Apparently there are many who are living in a world of delusion, who think that Downtown is on its way back. No. There have been efforts for at least 45 years to bring downtown back. It hasn't worked. Newer is viewed as better here. That's just the way it is.

So many do backflips at State Farm's new regional headquarters in Tempe, not really thinking 20 or 30 years down the line when State Farm decides it wants to move out to East Mesa or whatever low density hot spot is available at that time, leaving their current buildings empty and viewed as old and functionally obsolete.

Downtown had its turn and now it's time to move on.



The flight patterns into JFK and McCarran are much different than Phoenix. Neither airport requires flights directly over the high rises before landing. Our downtown is directly in the flight paths for Sky Harbor. Unless the runways were oriented north to south, there's really no way around that.

You can't be serious, have you been to downtown Tempe recently? Marina Heights/State Farm is just adding to the revival, take a stroll dude, take light rail and walk around, that's what a real downtown is supposed to feel like, screw your suburban NEW IS BETTER business parks. I have been here since 2010, and in only 4 years, Tempe has turned into the best city IMO in AZ. This is the potential Phoenix has, if their leaders would get their crap together.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by Butta

You can't be serious, have you been to downtown Tempe recently? Marina Heights/State Farm is just adding to the revival, take a stroll dude, take light rail and walk around, that's what a real downtown is supposed to feel like, screw your suburban NEW IS BETTER business parks. I have been here since 2010, and in only 4 years, Tempe has turned into the best city IMO in AZ. This is the potential Phoenix has, if their leaders would get their crap together.

I agree with your assessment of Tempe. As long as this current wave of commercial development leads to owner-occupied residential in the future instead of the sea of midrise rentals that have taken over a lot of prime land, I think it's being smartly planned and the results can be seen quite easily.

Tempe will always be attractive with the only waterfront properties, a huge talent pool with one of the largest Universities in town, a thriving downtown with historic building stock that has been seamlessly integrated into new projects, etc. In addition, it has sub-cores at Fountainhead and Emerald Center that are at least being developed with mixed uses involved. Lastly, they're pro-transit and if the streetcar gets off the ground and BRT in the future along Scottsdale Road, they'll have the best infrastructure in the metro when combined with easy access to all major highways.

It's Phoenix who continues to lose out to the suburbs, and much of the reason lies in the leadership of the city (who values places like Desert Ridge higher than downtown). The new Lux Coffee infill project was almost denied because its shade awnings pushed its lot coverage over the allowed zoning - talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Then, take a look at the huge array of empty lots in Evans Churchill that were cleared for a Bio campus that will never happen and you start to realize Phoenix just doesn't have the potential. There's no one dense square mile where downtown Phoenix has the bones, density, and vibrancy to become anything close to what's happened in downtown Tempe. If Barrister is developed properly, perhaps Jefferson will become an urban corridor in spite of the suburban design of CityScape; but, every other street is plagued by vacant lots, fortresss-like buildings, back-of-house operations, garages, etc. that completely decimate the human scale.

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Ridiculous. It's a tangled web. What is happening a mile up Central is absolutely connected to downtown. As many have stated in the past, downtown would have much greater stock of high rises had it not been for the development of the Central Corridor. That is absolutely true. The fact of the matter is that downtown and Midtown are past their primes and no one really wants anything to do with anymore. Apparently there are many who are living in a world of delusion, who think that Downtown is on its way back. No. There have been efforts for at least 45 years to bring downtown back. It hasn't worked. Newer is viewed as better here. That's just the way it is.

So many do backflips at State Farm's new regional headquarters in Tempe, not really thinking 20 or 30 years down the line when State Farm decides it wants to move out to East Mesa or whatever low density hot spot is available at that time, leaving their current buildings empty and viewed as old and functionally obsolete.

Downtown had its turn and now it's time to move on.



The flight patterns into JFK and McCarran are much different than Phoenix. Neither airport requires flights directly over the high rises before landing. Our downtown is directly in the flight paths for Sky Harbor. Unless the runways were oriented north to south, there's really no way around that.

HAHA what ignorant, borderline-ideological nonsense bullshit this is! :-D

Happy Friday Folks from the Great Valley of the Idiots

Good thing there are plenty of bland, tasteless "new" suburbs for the 70% gray-minded folks out there - living the Wal*Mart TGIFridays Lyfe hahaha holy shit.

[PHX31]

This is pretty cool.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/...rant-to-transform-pickle-house-into.html

Several random historic buildings still remain on the east side of downtown, it's nice to hear one of them is going to get a jolt. Looks like it is going to have a nice future.

[HX_Guy]

Downtown restaurants can expand seating onto Phoenix streets

Businesses in the downtown Phoenix arts district have the option of extending activity onto city streets with the new Downtown parklet program.

Parklets are pedestrian seating and activity areas that can be developed within the bounds of two streetside parking spaces. The greenspace can be used by restaurants for patron seating and other seasonal pedestrian spaces.

It's part of the mayor and city council's efforts to reduce the heat island effect from the downtown concrete and paved areas.

Administered through the Planning and Development Department, the conversions are permitted in the downtown development code area, roughly bounded by Lincoln Buckeye and McDowell Road and Seventh Street and Seventh Avenue.

The council voted earlier this month to approve the concept covering the parking spaces into community spaces.

"Parklets are just one more way that we're making city streets and neighborhoods more inviting and accessible, especially for pedestrians," Phoenix Mayor Greg Stanton said. "They also allow businesses to expand their space outdoors."

Parklets will provide green space on city streets to create new seasonal pedestrian spaces that improve the quality of life.

The city does not dictate the design for parklets, and wants to see unique reflections of neighborhood character. Use is limited to seating, landscaping and private seating controlled by the business. Businesses are responsible for construction and maintenance costs.

The city will make a determination about site eligibility at no charge to the applicant, the there is an annual license cost for using the public right-of-way.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/...restaurants-can-expand-seating-onto.html

[dtnphx]

A very cool, progressive idea that helps with making the downtown more liveable and human scale.