Calgary Public Transit II

[MasterG]

Edmonton has 6 shops / coffee / snack bars built into train stations along their LRT and bus network, plus new ones opening. If I recall, Calgary used to have a few, but does not have any as of now. Many other systems in the world offer retail in transit stations, this is not a new idea, but perhaps one that requires a certain level of ridership and customer-expectation to be successful.

With the enormous ridership we have, could it be a time to look at offering these kind of spaces?

I could see this be a big draw for transit users to pick up some basics or a coffee shop at the busier stations. Even something like a Shoppers could work if they had enough space at certain stations.

Here is a description of Edmonton's service.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/story_print.html?id=10312043&sponsor=

[VIce]

Originally Posted by MasterG

Edmonton has 6 shops / coffee / snack bars built into train stations along their LRT and bus network, plus new ones opening. If I recall, Calgary used to have a few, but does not have any as of now. Many other systems in the world offer retail in transit stations, this is not a new idea, but perhaps one that requires a certain level of ridership and customer-expectation to be successful.

With the enormous ridership we have, could it be a time to look at offering these kind of spaces?

I could see this be a big draw for transit users to pick up some basics or a coffee shop at the busier stations. Even something like a Shoppers could work if they had enough space at certain stations.

Here is a description of Edmonton's service.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/story_print.html?id=10312043&sponsor=

Yeah I can remember these as a kid; all along the South line (to Anderson), NE line (to Whitehorn), and I believe Dalhousie all had a coffee shop / news stand thing. And at one point they just all got shuttered. You would think that a coffee shop would make a killing at a location like that.

[MalcolmTucker]

It was not a money maker for the system.

I am not sure they could reopen them today without bathroom facilities.

Fired kiosk workers blast city tactics: [FINAL Edition]
Collins, Ron Calgary Herald [Calgary, Alta] 20 Mar 1996: B.1.

This story contains an information box entitled "Concession Fact".

- The issue: City takeover of LRT concession stands.

- What's new: City closes them; 28 employees lose jobs.

- What's next: Looking for new private operators.

City hall thought it could do the job better than private enterprise. It couldn't.

And now 28 people who operated 11 LRT concession stands are out of work and the city is turning to the private sector for help.

City officials had hoped to make more than $20,000 in the first year of operation, after taking over the small stands from a private operator a year ago.

Instead the city lost $13,000.

``It was not successful,'' conceded parks and recreation acting director Kenn Knights.

The city was ``perhaps overzealous'' in its revenue expectations, said Knights.

Employees were informed in letters hand-delivered Monday night by couriers that their jobs had been terminated immediately.

``I couldn't believe it,'' said Jean Boucher, who ran the Franklin Station concession.

``It was like Nazi Germany banging on your door in the middle of the night,'' Boucher said Tuesday.

Judy Holt, who ran the University Station kiosk for the city, got the bad news Monday night that her $7.50-an-hour job had been eliminated.

``The employees were told last night at the end of their shifts to turn in their keys and (leave),'' said a furious Tom Chesterman, national representative for CUPE Local 38.

Chesterman said there had been a battle with the city over the status of the workers' union membership.

The workers were given one week's pay in lieu of notice.

``It's obvious they had this plan for quite a while and didn't have the decency to let us know,'' said laid-off worker Sheldon Winters.

``It could have been done in a more humane manner like a face-to-face meeting with employees,'' added Ald. Joanne Kerr.

The city took over the small kiosks from private industry in February of last year as a potential revenue generator that flopped.

``Transit is now working to get an interim operator in place as quickly as possible,'' so the small stores can reopen, said Calgary Transit spokeswoman Theresa Schadeck.

Concession Facts:

A request for bids for private industry to once again operate the kiosks on a permanent basis will be issued during the summer.

- City took over 11 LRT concession stands in February 1995.

- City hoped to make $20,000 in 1995, but lost $13,000.

- CUPE Local 38 crying foul as 28 city workers lose their jobs.

- City to seek bids for full-time private operator this summer.

Former LRT concession operator mulls return to business: [FINAL Edition]
Calgary Herald [Calgary, Alta] 21 Mar 1996: B.2.

The man who operated 11 LRT concession stands until the city took them over a year ago says he might be willing to get back into the business again.

Taj Esmail ran the small stores for eight years, but then the city began running them in an attempt to generate revenue. Instead, it lost $13,000.

``I told the city then that they would lose money,'' Esmail said, adding he was forking over $130,000 annually in rent, business taxes and licensing fees.

On Monday, the city decided to get out of the LRT concession business and laid off 28 employees. The city is looking for an interim operator and during the summer will open up a bidding competition for permanent operators.

Esmail said whether he applies or not ``all depends on the terms and conditions of the proposal.

If the terms are fair and reasonable, I'll look at it,'' said the entrepreneur.

Esmail said that over the eight years he ran the booths with 18 employees, ``I had some good years and some bad years. But overall we did OK.''

[VIce]

1996? I feel like I remember them into the early 2000s, perhaps it reverted back to a third-party run system?

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

It was not a money maker for the system.

I am not sure they could reopen them today without bathroom facilities.

That is a good point about bathroom facilities, it would be an issue to provide them, particularly if the structures don't have an easy/cheap-ish way to provide the piping and water lines, which I would suspect they don't.

However, I think the idea still has merit. When they shuttered in this article in the mid-1990s, ridership was less than half it is now. While most users are still downtown commuters, secondary nodes are taking shape, primary in the NW line, Chinook and a few key stations in the NE (perhaps Bridgeland & Whitehorn by PLC). The reach and level of service of the LRT is also much higher. Culturally the view of transit has changed and these are some ideas that could vastly improve the customer experience that could pay for itself through rent.

What I don't think is a good idea is for Calgary Transit to have a heavy hand in such a scheme. Perhaps they could make a short-list of which stations are most able to accommodate such a proposal (i.e. access to plumbing, level of work required to create a leasable space, type of demand for the spaces, number of users at different times of day etc.)

Some stations are clearly not used enough to support this (Banff Trail, 39th Ave, Canyon) or are used in a specific way that doesn't make sense. But all-day stations like SAIT, U of C, Whitehorn, Chinook and perhaps eventually Westbrook and Anderson might have merit.

Nothing like a mandated service such as the 1990s, but essentially opening up the station area to retail development and proposals. CT can be much more flexible than it is with its assets, ideas like this could be a good way to expand the service they offer.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

It was not a money maker for the system.

I am not sure they could reopen them today without bathroom facilities.

Don't most have facilities for the drivers? I think Whitehorn has a couple but I'm not sure if the rest of the stations would.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by VIce

1996? I feel like I remember them into the early 2000s, perhaps it reverted back to a third-party run system?

Yeah, the kiosk at University was definitely open into the early 2000s, as I went there often during my time at the U of C (1998-2003).

[DizzyEdge]

Why are bathroom facilities needed? I mean I get the concept, but many 7-11s which serve food and coffee don't have public bathrooms, nor does a food stand or a food truck.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Why are bathroom facilities needed? I mean I get the concept, but many 7-11s which serve food and coffee don't have public bathrooms, nor does a food stand or a food truck.

Needed for employees not customers, workplace law require them

[DizzyEdge]

Got it, thanks. There must have been a driver/employee washroom in the old Anderson/Southland/Chinook stations I'm thinking.

[The Chemist]

AFAIC, all C-Train stations (except the downtown ones) should have public washrooms anwyay - I find it silly that they don't. It makes taking transit MUCH more bearable, IMO. I can't count how many times I've been on the Metro here in Shanghai and needed to use a washroom - and fortunately most stations here have either platform level public toilets or public toilets somewhere else in the station.

[J-D]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

AFAIC, all C-Train stations (except the downtown ones) should have public washrooms anwyay - I find it silly that they don't. It makes taking transit MUCH more bearable, IMO. I can't count how many times I've been on the Metro here in Shanghai and needed to use a washroom - and fortunately most stations here have either platform level public toilets or public toilets somewhere else in the station.

The difference is mostly in population and in labor costs. The stations in Asia that have public washrooms have full time security guards and people to clean the washrooms constantly. Public washrooms don't work too well here as the City discovered in the east village.

[joe498]

Efficiency makes sense as Calgary Transit scales back, says councillor

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgar...+Transit+scales+back/10356690/story.html

"Calgary buses and trains will roll for 10,000 fewer hours in 2015 than this year. That’s a relatively puny cut in an overall system of just under 2.8-million service hours, but comes amid continued population growth and hikes to both fares and property taxes — the two key ingredients of Calgary Transit revenue."

[MasterG]

From the roads thread in reference to the Barlow / 19th Street / Deerfoot interchange upgrades:

Originally Posted by fusili

Another complete neglect of the Route Ahead plan. They have a BRT going along 16th avenue here. Not saying they need to build transit lanes now, but shouldn't they at least show space for future dedicated transit lanes.

Does Calgary Transit even have a voice in all of this? It always seems like their activities, plans and upgrades are always delayed, ignored or not fought for by anyone. Councillors often seem to not be able to do more than provide lip-service to promote transit investment.

• Credit cards at transit stations took several months after the first one was rolled out before they were wide-spread.
• Their 5? + year, and still ongoing, 4-car extension project
• Real-time bus information, website upgrades - identified as required years ago - was supposed to be delivered "only a few weeks from now". That was several months ago
• The connect card saga, now slated for early-2015??
• Reserving a bus-lane on designated BRT route a huge bridge project that costs the same as their entire 4-car upgrade program. Nope.

Meanwhile Calgary Transit are getting a slight cut in their budget this year, despite record growth in population, ridership and demand for transit in all quadrants. I'm all for eliminating low-ridership routes to improve efficiency, but this should be done in conjunction of overall expansion of the effective routes, namely the Route Ahead plans.

I am not sure if they are lacking political influence, effective project management or simply the ability to attract funding in a tax-adverse jurisdiction. Whatever the reasons it is frustrating to see so little progress while other things are happening with such large numbers.

[mersar]

Noticed that the steel work for the expansion of Spring Gardens is mostly up, will make that bus facility even more impressively large.

[MasterG]

I spoke too soon: new website and real-time data launches Monday!

[joe498]

Originally Posted by MasterG

I spoke too soon: new website and real-time data launches Monday!

And here it is!

http://www.calgarytransit.com/

Much improved.

Good article related to this: http://crackmacs.ca/index.php/2014/11/calgary-transit-surprise-new-website/

Improvements to SE Calgary transitway could cut commute time in half:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1655881/improv...ansitway-could-cut-commute-time-in-half/

[Aegis]

http://www.calgarytransit.com/plans-projects/lrt/plans-and-projects-red-line

According to this website, the last of the station upgrades to 4-car capacity will be completed in late 2014, but they aren't expecting to start 4-car trains until late 2015. Why the 1 year delay?

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by Aegis

http://www.calgarytransit.com/plans-projects/lrt/plans-and-projects-red-line

According to this website, the last of the station upgrades to 4-car capacity will be completed in late 2014, but they aren't expecting to start 4-car trains until late 2015. Why the 1 year delay?

They won't have enough LRVs to start running 4 car trains until then.

[DizzyEdge]

Weren't some of the new LRVs supposed to also replace existing old ones? If so I wonder if we could delay retirement for a year and get 4 car consists running sooner.