PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[aro1419]

Sunoco Logistics Partners L.P. announced Thursday it will build an enormous $2.5 billion pipeline project that will quadruple the volume of Marcellus Shale natural gas liquids moving through the Philadelphia area.
The Philadelphia company said will launch its Mariner East 2 project, the second phase of a broader plan to move materials like propane, butane and ethane from Appalchian shale-gas fields to its Marcus Hook Industrial Complex southwest of Philadelphia.

Sunoco Logistics says it will build a new pipeline of at least 16 inches in diameter to follow the route of its first Mariner East project, an 83-year-old fuel pipeline crossing Pennsylvania that the company is repurposing to carry liquids to Marcus Hook.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20...ipeline_project.html#TgW7cW3iu2mMCCy5.99

Well here's a bit of a followup on that energy hub article from awhile back. I guess it's happening. I'd say that this is quite significant.

[summersm343]

^^^

This could be Philadelphia's future. This could bring both Blue Collar and White Collar jobs to Philadelphia and the area.

Could be huge


More on this from the Philadelphia Business Journal

Sunoco Logistics announced Thursday its plan to invest $2.5 billion in a second pipeline — Mariner East Phase 2 — that will deliver natural gas liquids from shale-rich areas to its Marcus Hook Industrial Complex on the Delaware River.

Mariner East 2 is part of Philadelphia-based Sunoco's plan to "provide critical pipeline transportation" from the Marcellus and Utica shales. It also enables development at Marcus Hook, "as we convert a former refinery site into a world-class natural gas liquids hub in southeastern Pennsylvania," said Michael J. Hennigan, Sunoco resident and CEO.

For instance, with the second pipeline project, Sunoco plans to build new facilities at Marcus Hook to store, chill, process and distribute natural gas liquids to local, domestic and international markets.

In addition, Sunoco said the Mariner East projects would allow additional propane to be available to local consumers during high-demand periods, like in the winter. Sunoco said the projects will also create jobs in Pennsylvania and the surrounding region.

Sunoco to invest $2.5 billion in second, larger gas pipeline - Philadelphia Business Journal

[iheartphilly]

Just wish that they didn't move the HQ operations into the burbs.

[AbortedWalrus]

Wow that is some pretty huge news!

[Kfmcshan]

"Commercial real estate broker CBRE Inc. is offering the former Frankford Chocolate factory, a 241,000 sq. ft. aging brick facility on a 100,000 sq. ft. lot at 2101 Washington Ave., For Sale. "This is the largest piece of available development land in the city at the moment," CBRE's Robert Fahey says. Features the city's "hottest residential neighborhood, and some very interesting history behind the owner.""

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/Convert_or_demolish_Wash_Ave_project_For_Sale.html

[relnahe]

Yes they can move the corporate jobs to a sprawling suburban office park and put all the ugly industry in the city. Sounds so great. Can't wait for any spills in any of the rivers that they'll beg the state and federal gov'ts to clean up on the taxpayers dime.

[summersm343]

Looks like the Art Commission just killed 2100 Hamilton - for now

http://planphilly.com/articles/2014/11/0...makes-sense-until-you-get-into-the-weeds

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by relnahe

Yes they can move the corporate jobs to a sprawling suburban office park and put all the ugly industry in the city. Sounds so great. Can't wait for any spills in any of the rivers that they'll beg the state and federal gov'ts to clean up on the taxpayers dime.

Is there a way to check Sunoco's record on EPA violations from the past? That might be an indicator of what's to come. Anyways, not looking forward to what it does to our air quality.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Looks like the Art Commission just killed 2100 Hamilton - for now

http://planphilly.com/articles/2014/11/0...makes-sense-until-you-get-into-the-weeds

Good, we should expect more for such a highly visible part of Philly, instead of the developer trying to flip a buck.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by aro1419

Well here's a bit of a followup on that energy hub article from awhile back. I guess it's happening. I'd say that this is quite significant.

This is significant and great!

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by relnahe

Yes they can move the corporate jobs to a sprawling suburban office park and put all the ugly industry in the city. Sounds so great. Can't wait for any spills in any of the rivers that they'll beg the state and federal gov'ts to clean up on the taxpayers dime.

I don't really buy the whole "energy center" story either.

The raw material processing industry's historical MO has proven over and over that it will stick around only as long as the raw materials are cheaply accessible, will essentially trash the local environment as required to make a profit, and then leave the massive environmental and socioeconomic mess for the public to (not) clean up. The executives retire in the pristine Swiss alps while the ant-like masses (i.e., us) suffer in remaining cancer clusters of often high unemployment, physical incapacitation, and entitlement dependence.

This is a text book case of privatizing profits and socializing externalities.

The white collar people who work in the energy industry are essentially not urban dwelling creative types, but inveterate mainstream exurbanists so will offer little to the betterment of the urban environment during their time around town. One only need to look at the sterile, characterless, windswept downtowns of Texas and Oklahoma oil cities for proof of this. Houston is a lifeless assemblage of corporate glass box clusters amid miles of mind-numbing sprawl. The super wealthy live far away from the urban center and the filthy air of nearby the industrial oil processing zones.

I don't think this class of people or the industry in which they thrive offer any long term upside to our region.

We should be emulating clean, successful places like SF, Boston, Seattle, Vancouver, Melbourne, Sydney. Not Houston, Baton Rouge, Tulsa, Bhopal, Shenyang.

Intellectual capital will characterize the successful metro areas of the future, not ephemeral natural resource wealth.

Having said that, Marcus Hook is not really the city - our city, at least. Not that I would wish ill on the people there, but it is as remote from Philly as the oil refineries of the Arthur Kill are from Manhattan.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

We should be emulating clean, successful places like SF, Boston, Seattle, Vancouver, Melbourne, Sydney. Not Houston, Baton Rouge, Tulsa, Bhopal, Shenyang.

Intellectual capital will characterize the successful metro areas of the future, not ephemeral natural resource wealth.

I was thinking the exact same thing, but didn't have the guts to post it here. Glad someone else did.

Sorry, but I don't share others' enthusiasm for Philly becoming more of a center of fossil fuel refining, processing, and distribution. We're just on the cusp of shaking that type of image.

[summersm343]

I'm fine with this since it will be in Marcus Hook. I'm fine with industry in depressed places like Camden, Marcus Hook, Chester, even down by the airport.

Industry has no place anywhere near the Center City core however.

As long as it's away from the core this really could only be good for the city.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

I don't really buy the whole "energy center" story either.

The raw material processing industry's historical MO has proven over and over that it will stick around only as long as the raw materials are cheaply accessible, will essentially trash the local environment as required to make a profit, and then leave the massive environmental and socioeconomic mess for the public to (not) clean up. The executives retire in the pristine Swiss alps while the ant-like masses (i.e., us) suffer in remaining cancer clusters of often high unemployment, physical incapacitation, and entitlement dependence.

This is a text book case of privatizing profits and socializing externalities.

The white collar people who work in the energy industry are essentially not urban dwelling creative types, but inveterate mainstream exurbanists so will offer little to the betterment of the urban environment during their time around town. One only need to look at the sterile, characterless, windswept downtowns of Texas and Oklahoma oil cities for proof of this. Houston is a lifeless assemblage of corporate glass box clusters amid miles of mind-numbing sprawl. The super wealthy live far away from the urban center and the filthy air of nearby the industrial oil processing zones.

I don't think this class of people or the industry in which they thrive offer any long term upside to our region.

We should be emulating clean, successful places like SF, Boston, Seattle, Vancouver, Melbourne, Sydney. Not Houston, Baton Rouge, Tulsa, Bhopal, Shenyang.

Intellectual capital will characterize the successful metro areas of the future, not ephemeral natural resource wealth.

Having said that, Marcus Hook is not really the city - our city, at least. Not that I would wish ill on the people there, but it is as remote from Philly as the oil refineries of the Arthur Kill are from Manhattan.

I agree, the booster of this whole energy hub concept only has billions (literally) of dollars to gain by bringing more raw materials here--so he's not biased at all.

The region and center city over the last 15 years has been organically rebounding from our industrial, blue collar past failures. Now, more than ever, there's creatives and services and entrepreneurs who are driving our economy instead of factory workers and tradesmen. The issue with almost every blue collar job is that there's an obsoletion curve. It's introduced, people need it, the industry booms, something cheaper or better gets made, and the industry goes away. Where the industry was located is now stuck picking up the pieces of the burst balloon.

I'd rather keep the safer, cleaner, organic growth curve we're currently on rather than introducing this strange steroid with unknown effects.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I'm fine with this since it will be in Marcus Hook. I'm fine with industry in depressed places like Camden, Marcus Hook, Chester, even down by the airport.

Industry has no place anywhere near the Center City core however.

As long as it's away from the core this really could only be good for the city.

That may be right. But all those poor fucks who live along the Schuylkill and Delaware from Passyunk Ave down to Delaware City will be getting various kinds of cancer far more than the rest of us. Beggers can't be choosers, though, I suppose.

[GarCastle]

I was walking through the Penn Tower garage yesterday, wondering how they would have patients/visitors park blocks away when often they cannot walk too well - or if they would leave the Penn Tower garage up as long as possible for patient convenience.

Today I got to pick the brains of a couple AVPs. They reported that the conference rooms will go offline starting January 1 so that the floors could start getting taken apart - as in salvage interesting things built into the areas, etc. Even that granite conference table on the 21st floor would be nice to move somewhere else, all the paintings, etc. They also said they have been hearing Labor Day for the tower coming down though they couldn't recall if that was when it would be done coming down or start to come down. They believed the parking garage would come down even earlier, as soon as the 3600 Civic Center garage (UPHS Garage) is up and usable.

I almost pulled out a camera in a meeting to take a photo of a VP sitting at that granite table with a garbage bucket a foot front him ON the table catching drips of water coming in from the roof. They REALLY are serious about not spending money on that building and tearing it down LOL. I didn't think he would appreciate the photo op in a meeting though.

They also said they keep hearing 20 floors for the administrative/non-clinical tower that will get built in front of (non-river side) the garage.

Also in regards to someone posting about the future bridge and someone losing a nice office. I was in Perelman quite a bit today and noticed how the current arm of the building ("East" even though it is on the North side) has several cutouts on that above ground floor that are an apparent waste of space and have large gravel sitting in them. I believe that is where the tunnel would go and the tunnel would thereby get connected to a sizable hallway not too far off the main/upper level of the Atrium. There are also some similar spaces like that facing Penn Tower garage which could be where they might plug in the future hospital into that arm of the Perelman Center.

Regards,
G.

[Philly-Drew]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

I don't really buy the whole "energy center" story either.

The raw material processing industry's historical MO has proven over and over that it will stick around only as long as the raw materials are cheaply accessible, will essentially trash the local environment as required to make a profit, and then leave the massive environmental and socioeconomic mess for the public to (not) clean up.........

This is a text book case of privatizing profits and socializing externalities.

...............

I don't think this class of people or the industry in which they thrive offer any long term upside to our region.

We should be emulating clean, successful places like SF, Boston, Seattle, Vancouver, Melbourne, Sydney. Not Houston, Baton Rouge, Tulsa, Bhopal, Shenyang.

Intellectual capital will characterize the successful metro areas of the future, not ephemeral natural resource wealth.

Having said that, Marcus Hook is not really the city - our city, at least. Not that I would wish ill on the people there, but it is as remote from Philly as the oil refineries of the Arthur Kill are from Manhattan.

I have to say I agree with what you, Londonee and others are saying. Extracting the natural resources makes me wonder what will happen when the resources are gone. From a long term standpoint, I'm not so sure it's a good thing.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

That may be right. But all those poor fucks who live along the Schuylkill and Delaware from Passyunk Ave down to Delaware City will be getting various kinds of cancer far more than the rest of us. Beggers can't be choosers, though, I suppose.

"will be getting..."

My friend, the people of these old industrial relic towns have been getting cancer for a long time now.

Trainer, Linwood, Marcus Hook, Claymont, DE, Edgemoor (that's DE too)- DuPont plant, right on down to Del City.

People debate "cancer cluster" data..., but in these areas it's real. I parked my car at the Marcus Hook Septa stop for years... and the "dust" of whatever left on your windshield everyday by the time you got back to your car (...who knows what that was)...? can not be good for the lungs for the folks living there 24/7. However, if I were to stop in the old Marcus Hook Diner tomorrow and bring up the news of this planned pipeline... people would be quite happy and smile... after all, its jobs, livable wages (overtime!), better than livable - a solid middle class income.

And the beat goes on.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by GarCastle

I was walking through the Penn Tower garage yesterday, wondering how they would have patients/visitors park blocks away when often they cannot walk too well - or if they would leave the Penn Tower garage up as long as possible for patient convenience.

Today I got to pick the brains of a couple AVPs. They reported that the conference rooms will go offline starting January 1 so that the floors could start getting taken apart - as in salvage interesting things built into the areas, etc. Even that granite conference table on the 21st floor would be nice to move somewhere else, all the paintings, etc. They also said they have been hearing Labor Day for the tower coming down though they couldn't recall if that was when it would be done coming down or start to come down. They believed the parking garage would come down even earlier, as soon as the 3600 Civic Center garage (UPHS Garage) is up and usable.

I almost pulled out a camera in a meeting to take a photo of a VP sitting at that granite table with a garbage bucket a foot front him ON the table catching drips of water coming in from the roof. They REALLY are serious about not spending money on that building and tearing it down LOL. I didn't think he would appreciate the photo op in a meeting though.

They also said they keep hearing 20 floors for the administrative/non-clinical tower that will get built in front of (non-river side) the garage.

Also in regards to someone posting about the future bridge and someone losing a nice office. I was in Perelman quite a bit today and noticed how the current arm of the building ("East" even though it is on the North side) has several cutouts on that above ground floor that are an apparent waste of space and have large gravel sitting in them. I believe that is where the tunnel would go and the tunnel would thereby get connected to a sizable hallway not too far off the main/upper level of the Atrium. There are also some similar spaces like that facing Penn Tower garage which could be where they might plug in the future hospital into that arm of the Perelman Center.

Regards,
G.

It is indeed a very big table, but its the lighting system in Conference Room "A" thats worth saving. Conference Room B on FL 21 has one of the best views of CC IMO.

In regards to Perelman Bridge, The corner office right next to the current bridge opening is def. a goner. The bridge will go there as there is access to P1 elevators from there as there is with the current bridge. This is for convenience and security.

The office building next to the garage is currently to be known as "Center for Health Technology." It is zoned CMX-5, but the latest I heard was a more modest 12-14 flrs and a height closer to 264' feet. Not to say it can not be true for the 20, earlier I heard up to 24 floors, but linked below it has 12-14 listed.

http://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/projec..._June%2017%202014%20CDR%20Submission.pdf

[McBane]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Good, we should expect more for such a highly visible part of Philly, instead of the developer trying to flip a buck.

Hmmm...this commission has the ability to kill a project? If so, where were these guys when the Courthouse was proposed? Or the new American Revolution Museum. The Kimmel Center? Symphony House? I'm not saying I disagree with the findings but there's a lot worse projects that have been approved. Where was this commission then?

By the way, can anyone name all the 27 zillion different commissions and review boards out there that developers must present to? Seems like there could be a better way, more efficient way to do so. In my little fantasy world, I'd envision ONE commission with an architect to evaluate the merit of the design; an urban planner to evaluate the way in which the projects fits into its surroundings; an economist to evaluate the economic impact; a lawyer to speak to zoning laws, etc.; a neighborhood representative to advocate the neighborhood's desires; a transportation expert to focus on parking, traffic, and the estimated usage of transit, bikes, walking, etc.; and if necessary a historic preservation expert. And that's it. No city council, no uneducated NIMBYs, and no 20 million hoops to jump through. A man can dream...