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  #41  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Although I have no problem with the building itself and the shadow concerns aren't something I'm going to lose sleep over - should we still not obey the laws we have set out? If we want taller buildings in the area, let's raise the height limit first and then build them. Rules are pointless if they are not followed, especially if they are not followed by those that create them.
It's a good point to raise, BUT the CA and the city allowed the Atlantic Avenue Art Block to go higher too. So they already set a precedent. Doesn't matter that the Art block is on the south side of 9th and backs onto rail tracks and such, because all the matters is that they already broke the height limit once.

Slippery slope (drink!).
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  #42  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 3:03 PM
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  #43  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 3:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Although I have no problem with the building itself and the shadow concerns aren't something I'm going to lose sleep over - should we still not obey the laws we have set out? If we want taller buildings in the area, let's raise the height limit first and then build them. Rules are pointless if they are not followed, especially if they are not followed by those that create them.
That is exactly what the applicant applied to do with this land use. Change the rules to allow more height. Rules are set by Council (and the 20 meter height limit was set in 1993 I believe). A city is a growing, dynamic entity, and the needs of land change over time. That is why it is up to council to set the zoning for parcels, and why they have the power to change the zoning. Council doesn't have to grant every request (see a slew of failed secondary suite applications as an example) but they have to decide when new rules are appropriate and for the greater good.
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  #44  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 4:15 PM
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Once this is built the neighbourhood will love it.

I'm curious how long it will be before Ven type projects start getting proposed in Inglewood, and how hard the NIMBYs will fight it.
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  #45  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelS View Post
That is exactly what the applicant applied to do with this land use. Change the rules to allow more height. Rules are set by Council (and the 20 meter height limit was set in 1993 I believe). A city is a growing, dynamic entity, and the needs of land change over time. That is why it is up to council to set the zoning for parcels, and why they have the power to change the zoning. Council doesn't have to grant every request (see a slew of failed secondary suite applications as an example) but they have to decide when new rules are appropriate and for the greater good.
Will the height limit be changed permanently then, or is it specific to this one application?
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  #46  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 5:51 PM
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I watched a few pieces of the council meeting yesterday. What really stood out was the shadowing comparison between what is proposed vs. what would be allowed within the allowed 20m height. It was a neat way to illustrate the differences (which were minor).

The sunlight for the 8 or so properties that could be effected was particularly only a concern in the winter months as the June to Sept timeframe didn't seem to shadow even much of the detached alley garage in most places.

They are right that the development will significantly shadow their property in the winter months (as opposed to a vacant lot). Not sure how this would be any different with a 20m building vs. 22.5m. Perhaps 53 degrees north is real metric that is too high for some residents?

I have heard Rollin Stanley's argument of towers vs. blocks a few times, I think this applies here. Blocks are more human scale and generally more attractive, however you lose sunlight for much more of your day then a podium+point tower that is much higher but skinnier. Imagine trying to put in a 14 storey point tower here!

I understand the fear and "slippery slope" perceptions, but I don't see how they could get a better outcome by forcing a strict 20m design. The property offers substantial public space improvements with the plaza space, creative and attractive retail to help the strip along, not to mention more new residents to support local retail than exist in the 2 blocks to the north that are in question about the shadowing issue. The plaza space and attractiveness of the retail are entirely dependent on getting the extra 2.5m, otherwise the massing has to shift which removes the plaza / live-work lofts on the rear of the structure.

Given that the sun to the backyards is maintained for most of the warm months, I hardly see that as a bad deal for the community. But I understand where the residents are coming from. I think their fear has clouded out all the positives this proposal offers.

Either way, Bridgeland and the Beltline seem completely willing to take up any developers that get turned off my the strength of Inglewood's Nimbyism. Without more residents to support retail, there is a real risk Inglewood can begin to slip against booming main-streets in the Beltline, Kensignton and elsewhere that seem to be able to densify and improve their quality of public/retail spaces without nearly the same uproar.

In 20 years it is entirely possible that Bridgeland, Marda Loop and Centre St/Edmonton Trail will be a bigger retail destination than Inglewood if they don't start opening the doors to development.
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  #47  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 5:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Although I have no problem with the building itself and the shadow concerns aren't something I'm going to lose sleep over - should we still not obey the laws we have set out? If we want taller buildings in the area, let's raise the height limit first and then build them. Rules are pointless if they are not followed, especially if they are not followed by those that create them.
By the same token though, rules are pointless if they can't be adjusted over time to adapt to change.

I think having a developer apply to council to override a rule is the best possible way to get the best of both worlds.
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  #48  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 5:57 PM
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Hey I'm bitching because right now instead of Ezra on Riley park going ahead on 5th avenue their signage is off the construction fencing and instead we get to see a row of lovely derelict houses.

Thanks HSCA "Planning" group!
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  #49  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 6:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
Hey I'm bitching because right now instead of Ezra on Riley park going ahead on 5th avenue their signage is off the construction fencing and instead we get to see a row of lovely derelict houses.

Thanks HSCA "Planning" group!
Not good at all from a developer point of view, city really needs to ensure this doesn't continue.

That parcel falls within the mid-rise density area of the Hillhurst-Sunnyside ARP too, so I'm confused about how the NIMBY's shot this down?
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  #50  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 6:38 PM
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Her statue better not cause any shadowing!
If it's the same lady as in Otacular's Avatar, where will the children play has a lot of merit lol
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  #51  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 6:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Spring2008 View Post
Not good at all from a developer point of view, city really needs to ensure this doesn't continue.

That parcel falls within the mid-rise density area of the Hillhurst-Sunnyside ARP too, so I'm confused about how the NIMBY's shot this down?
I'm guessing that it must not have fallen within the guidelines, or it would have gone ahead with or without the HSCA's consent. Anyone have a copy of the ARP handy?
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  #52  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 6:52 PM
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  #53  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 7:08 PM
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Thanks Spring! So according the ARP Ezra should have been allowed.

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  #54  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 7:14 PM
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Thanks Spring! So according the ARP Ezra should have been allowed.
Appears to fall under the medium density-mid-rise category, so the proposal was within the ARP guidelines.
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  #55  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 7:24 PM
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Appears to fall under the medium density-mid-rise category, so the proposal was within the ARP guidelines.
The rendering on Page 76 shows the scale guideline is looking for and Ezra fits right into it perfectly.
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  #56  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 7:35 PM
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If memory serves, they didn't just go after the height. They threw enough shit at the appeal to hope at least one would stick. Which it did, maybe something about public realm (which is still better than the existing private homes that were/are there now).

Now get this, in the latest community newsletter to come out the update from them talks about the city updating the playground at Riley Park, and how they have gotten the city to move the playground a little farther north to eliminate any shadowing concerns from new developments on 5th ave (which Ezra would be).

So why the hell did you have a problem with Ezra when your probably knew that any slight shadowing concerns on the park would be offset by getting the city to move it a little when they upgraded?

You suck HSCA "planning" group. You suck the suck of sucks.
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  #57  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Will the height limit be changed permanently then, or is it specific to this one application?
Not sure if Council is amending the ARP to remove the height limit or not. For the applicant, they would likely be looking to just change it for their one parcel.
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  #58  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 12:46 AM
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I suspect Inglewood residents fears are a combination of a) their single family community will turn into high density b) their historic community will have most of the history bulldozed away, succeeding where the downtown penetrator failed.

Personally I fully support higher density on the many many light industrial/vacant lots in the community, although I'd prefer that to happen with a more robust way to preserve the historic nature of the community, as well prevent 9th avenue from being shadowed, similar to the restrictions Stephen Ave has. (unsure if there is any restrictions currently). I just took a look, there are 11 properties in Inglewood with any historic protection, 3 of them weakly protected, only 4 on 9th ave. If that was tripled I'd feel a lot better.
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  #59  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2014, 6:49 PM
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I suspect Inglewood residents fears are a combination of a) their single family community will turn into high density b) their historic community will have most of the history bulldozed away, succeeding where the downtown penetrator failed.

Personally I fully support higher density on the many many light industrial/vacant lots in the community, although I'd prefer that to happen with a more robust way to preserve the historic nature of the community, as well prevent 9th avenue from being shadowed, similar to the restrictions Stephen Ave has. (unsure if there is any restrictions currently). I just took a look, there are 11 properties in Inglewood with any historic protection, 3 of them weakly protected, only 4 on 9th ave. If that was tripled I'd feel a lot better.
The bolded part concerns me the most, seems that is where the focus should be (on getting more buildings protected) rather than fighting the redevelopment of a largely vacant lot.
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  #60  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2014, 12:34 AM
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Properties can only be legally protected if the owners volunteer, so there's not really anything residents can do to increase protection, other than convincing the province to rewrite the Alberta Historical Resources Act.
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Last edited by DizzyEdge; Nov 10, 2014 at 3:57 AM.
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