YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[casper]

Originally Posted by deasine

Air Canada may officially call Vancouver a hub in its books, but it is very clear Air Canada favours Toronto over Vancouver in its hubbing operations. Anyone that thinks Air Canada is a strong hub-carrier in Vancouver clearly does not know the nature of Air Canada's market and their target operations. They've explicitly admitted in the past that AC will be focusing on hubbing operations in YYZ and the partnerships with GTAA already indicate this is happening and will continue to happen. And in AC's defense, why not? AC's target moving forward is the fifth freedom traffic that happens between the United States and Asia (notice not so much in Atlantic due to the previous agreements with United, Lufthansa). The majority of flights AC's existing Canada-US flights are based on the East Coast. This is why AC decided to relaunch the HND flights from YYZ and not from YVR, to target passengers on the east coast. YVR's existing AC network does not offer this and would require a lot more capacity (and thus expenditure) in order to match YYZs network.

I think Air Canada has a major hub in Vancouver. It is a hub inherited from when it merged with Canadian (Canadian Pacific). There are quite a few international destinations served from Vancouver that are not served from Toronto. Those include Korea, Hawaii, Australia.

Air Canada basically fly from Vancouver non-stop to Europe, Asia and Australia.

Vancouver to California is just odd market with competition between Air Canada, WestJet, American, Alaska, Delta and United.

I do agree that Air Canada is not putting much effort into expanding its Vancouver Hub by adding new destinations. It has added the odd flight here and there. It is flying bigger aircraft to these destinations that before. I remember when Australia was served by a 767 with a refilling stop in Hawaii.

Air Canada has not de-hubbed (Vancouver) either. The way some US carriers have handled getting rid of hubs they did not want any more. United had Seattle as a hub for some time and now that is gone. US Airways dropped Vegas as a hub. There are a host of similar examples.

[trofirhen]

I'm encouraged by your statement that Air Canada has not "de-hubbed" Vancouver, as has happened in some American cities, as you point out.
If, in fact, Air Canada DID "de-hub" Vancouver, there wouldn't really be anything but Wesjet to take its place, and they only do North America.
So, I guess AC is sort of obliged to keep a Vancouver hub, although YYZ is, of course, their mega-hub, and they want to keep it that way.
They've cut way back, for example, at YUL, which is now only the fourth busiest airport in Canada.

[Johnny Aussie]

Just tweeted from YVR

“@yvrairport: You’re going to love our newest direct service from YVR! Big announcement tomorrow morning."

Very unlike YVR to give teasers like this.

"City of Love" perhaps? Hmmmmmm......

As for AS cutting LAX-YVR... the jury appears to be out on that as AS insiders saying it was a glitch but others saying it's not (ie zeroed-out inventory).. I will give an update if I learn anything... Scheds still showing 3-4 daily in OAG, Amadeus, Alaskaair.com scheds...

[Klazu]

I don't understand the panic and worry some people have over YYZ "taking over" YVR routes and becoming the only Air Canada hub in Canada. We live in the world's second largest country and YYZ and YVR are located almost on the opposite ends of this vast country, some 5 hours apart. Sure, YYZ will always be the biggest hub for Air Canada, but I cannot see how it could really threat Western Canada (the growing part of the country) airports and YVR specifically. They are just way too far from each other and can both exist as the western and eastern hubs for this country.

I am actually much more surprised how much service Air Canada provides from Calgary and Montreal, which could both easily be just spokes for the true hubs that are YYZ and YVR. Montreal of course is a large city, but it is still very close to Toronto and in many other countries people would have to fly via the hub airport much more frequently than people out of Montreal today have to do.

For example in Germany Frankfurt and Munich are the only two hubs for Lufthansa and for example Berlin, Hamburg and the Ruhr Megapolis, while much larger cities, are only Lufthansa focus cities with very little direct flights other than to some European countries. Flying long-haul on Lufthansa will require Berliners and Hamburgers(?) to always fly via Frankfurt or Munich.

In that context I think Air Canada is providing pretty superior service from YYZ, YVR, YYC and YUL. Just some layman thinking.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I don't understand the panic and worry some people have over YYZ "taking over" YVR routes and becoming the only Air Canada hub in Canada. We live in the world's second largest country and YYZ and YVR are located almost on the opposite ends of this vast country, some 5 hours apart. Sure, YYZ will always be the biggest hub for Air Canada, but I cannot see how it could really threat Western Canada (the growing part of the country) airports and YVR specifically. They are just way too far from each other and can both exist as the western and eastern hubs for this country.

Yup... and it gets brought up over and over and over and over......

There has been so much growth at YVR... Not just in pax and cargo numbers... But new airlines, new routes, plenty of capacity increases in a vast array of viable markets. Yes, YVR has lost a couple (VS to LHR and TS pulling FRA)... but those are being offset by so many increases and additions in other markets. Intelligent answers like yours are constantly given yet.... the constant questioning of YVR's hub status or lack thereof or whatever YVR is...??

And again... YVR may see limited additions to Europe and possibly limited direct services to South America but that's all YVR can expect... Limited additions to those areas.

YVR is very well served for a city it's size, demographics, geographic location etc (full stop!)

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by deasine

Johnny I'm surprised you are on Aeroplan given that you are based in MEL. I know QF's redemption is pretty poor in its Frequent Flyer programme, but do you really make enough flights to Canada to benefit from using Aeroplan? It seems other oneworld carriers might be better options: AA for instance.

Being on Aeroplan was just a legacy of being in the plan for so long and even after I moved to Australia over 10 years ago it has served me very well as I get Gold benefits on SQ and NZ my two main carriers. Plus I have good status with Virgin Australia so I avoid the one world group mainly because of QF. Kind of sucks after Ansett collapsed but oh well.

But with the latest round of devaluations... even after the revised ones.... that was the last straw. No point. Getting the minimum AC equivalent was easy... but now... looks too tricky to bother even trying... soooo... farewell! All I need is to have Gold with any star carrier to get the benefits I will need. Even having SE on AC is pointless when travelling on any other star carrier. They don't care if you are 50K, 75K or 100K... It's all Gold to them. I will have Gold for next year already so now planning on the alternates!

Originally Posted by Cage

I left Aeroplane last year for UA. Mostly because I was flying YYC to DEN and/or IAH on monthly basis. Unlimited domestic upgrades and free E+ moved me over. However with no credit card program to deposit into UA miles, I have TD aeroplan card.

If you want to find a bunch of others leaving Aeroplan, take a gander over at flyertalk.

Thanks for the heads up... Had a good read of some alternates out there.

[deasine]

I want to clarify I did not say AC was dehubbing YVR by any means. I am just stating the treatment of YVR is very different than YYZ. In many ways, YVR is similar to YUL in that AC uses both hubs and continues to fly to certain long-haul markets for their O&D traffic. YUL still has a number of European routes just as YVR has a strong Asian base. YYZ just has a combination of both, and more. The whole nature of this discussion was because trofirhen's query and thus my input is directly catered towards the question and should not be interpreted for other markets.

In response to the tweet, YVR has been doing a lot of marketing work working with airlines to ensure viability for new services. We've been seeing a lot of work done by YVR-airline, Iceland air and China Southern scavenger hunts, etc. and I expect more creative marketing and hyping to continue in its strategy moving forward. This also goes back to the whole hub discussion, with most airports, there is less marketing work done by the airports to market new routes because generally the main airport user is the hub carrier.

[Denscity]

YVR to CDG on Rouge perhaps?? Another major city connection.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Just tweeted from YVR

“@yvrairport: You’re going to love our newest direct service from YVR! Big announcement tomorrow morning."

Very unlike YVR to give teasers like this.

"City of Love" perhaps? Hmmmmmm......

If the tweet is a hint, it could very well be CDG. Then again, with the growth of aviation in China, it could easily be a route to some second-tier city in China. Wasn't a non-stop to Xiamen rumored sometime back?

There's one poster here who'd really be hoping for CDG...

[nname]

Xiamen Air is going to launch service to AMS in 2015, according to an ad that just leaked today... Would they launch 2 international routes at the same time?

[Canadian74]

YVR-CDG on Air France 772.
Starts with 3x weekly late March 2015, then 5x weekly during the summer.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

YVR-CDG on Air France 772.
Starts with 3x weekly late March 2015, then 5x weekly during the summer.

What a lovely way to start off a wet Monday morning! Nothing like good news to start off the week on a good note.

[Valley_Refugee]

Goodness, CDG flights announced and no trofirhen response yet? Isn't this the global super mega hub we've been waiting for? To lift us out of our provincial backwater status as a third-rate airport which Air Canada only deigns to serve with token flights?

Yup... and it gets brought up over and over and over and over......

There has been so much growth at YVR... Not just in pax and cargo numbers... But new airlines, new routes, plenty of capacity increases in a vast array of viable markets. Yes, YVR has lost a couple (VS to LHR and TS pulling FRA)... but those are being offset by so many increases and additions in other markets. Intelligent answers like yours are constantly given yet.... the constant questioning of YVR's hub status or lack thereof or whatever YVR is...??

And again... YVR may see limited additions to Europe and possibly limited direct services to South America but that's all YVR can expect... Limited additions to those areas.

YVR is very well served for a city it's size, demographics, geographic location etc (full stop!)

Johnny and I and many others have beat this horse to death every time this somewhat silly topic of conversation comes up. Vancouver is a relatively small city and limited by its income demographics, but by virtue of its larger status in Canada and its geographic location, it is very well served by both Air Canada and foreign carriers. Look at the tails one can see at the airport at any given time...

[thegx]

So this will likely be Air Transat's last season operating CDG?

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by thegx

So this will likely be Air Transat's last season operating CDG?

Probably not, they are targeting different pax.

[Johnny Aussie]

See what happens when I try and get some sleep!

So my ooh la la comment weeks ago had some credence. :-)

More info here ---> http://airlineroute.net/2014/11/03/af-yvr-s15/

And AF becomes YVR's 20th international (overseas) carrier... if you include Qantas of course!

And YVR shoots back up to 69 weekly flights to Europe next summer with this addition. Same as 2014. But capacity will be higher.

YVR's press release ---> http://yvr.ca/en/flight-information/latest-information/14-11-03/Mais_Oui_Paris-2769299286.aspx

Will be operated by 309 seater 772s.

And the same day KLM announces YEG (finally!!) worst kept secret ever ;-)

[Denscity]

Welcome to YVR AIR FRANCE!!!
Another exotic international airline for YVR!!!

[Klazu]

Excellent news. I have never flow with AF or connected through CDG, as many people have suggested in the past that they are the most sure combo to lose your luggage upon transit.

I am sure they are fine and this is just an urban myth.

[trofirhen]

FORMIDABLE !!! (Charles Aznavour)

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

FORMIDABLE !!! (Charles Aznavour)

Congratulations Trofirhen your life long dream came true!!