Winnipeg Construction VIII

[trueviking]

and its not just affordable housing...its all building types that are affected....the low cost stuff will just be the first to go...I am working on a good budget project that is still being significantly affected...

try building downtown in a city with the highest construction costs in Canada with the lowest rental rates....now add this significant challenge....everything is going to be EIFS.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by trueviking

this is exactly it....some architects will just assume that adding insulation and keeping glazing below 30% works....others will test and see that it doesn't....who will enforce it? We are afraid of having people who don't give a shit specifying things that we cant in good conscience and then having developers confront us about it.

Simplicity is right...on very few building types do developers care about long term payback of added insulation...its all capital cost.

And honestly, one is a function of the other. But we've had to continue figuring out ways to move costs off our ledger; because of the rising capital costs I budget very few operating costs outside of the common elements. I can't afford to pick up heating or parking or storage units anymore. And why? Because my original capital costs keep rising.

And that's great that the building is more efficient. I hope the tenants appreciate their $10 monthly heating savings while generating another $75 in monthly rents.

The calculation of these payback periods from the government are total nonsense. I've dealt with them on affordable housing enough to know that absolutely nobody within government has the first clue about the costs or the variables involved in development....

[drew]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Simplicity is right...on very few building types do developers care about long term payback of added insulation...its all capital cost.

We are going to get to that point eventually though. Energy efficiency is only getting more and more important as a selling feature. People don't even bat and eye paying $5 for a light bulb anymore.

[drew]

Originally Posted by trueviking

its fine to be altruistic about it but there are economic realities....who will pay for this?...most development in Winnipeg is already on razor thin margins.

you will see...its not as simple as you think...this is a holistic change to how we build....

I think at this point we just need to wait and see how it plays out.

I don't think it is going to be all doom and gloom, but it won't be easy.

The truth will be somewhere in the middle.

The "good" news is that it is a national standard, that will eventually be across Canada. So margins will go up everywhere.

[drew]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I am working on a good budget project that is still being significantly affected...

Get your foundation-only permit in ASAP!

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by drew

I think at this point we just need to wait and see how it plays out.

I don't think it is going to be all doom and gloom, but it won't be easy.

The truth will be somewhere in the middle.

The "good" news is that it is a national standard, that will eventually be across Canada. So margins will go up everywhere.

Margins will go down everywhere. The issue of this being a national code issue is what's most harmful; it doesn't account for the realities involved in development which is that issues are mostly regional; there's almost nothing that applies nationally.

And all we've seen to date is that the province steps in and makes things more rigorous than the national standard; not less.

From talking to the guys at LM, their U of W building is currently held up because somebody got all uppity about the usage of EIFS in downtown. So we already have unrealistic expectations about what's feasible in this city, now we have more.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by drew

Get your foundation-only permit in ASAP!

That's funny because I have been wondering if there will be a big flood of projects doing this to try and get in under the wire.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

And all we've seen to date is that the province steps in and makes things more rigorous than the national standard; not less.

Not really is terms of the Building Code. The Manitoba amendments are pretty simple.

Actually they make it much easier for us structural guys, as they allow us to ignore seismic altogether.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by drew

Not really is terms of the Building Code. The Manitoba amendments are pretty simple.

Actually they make it much easier for us structural guys, as they allow us to ignore seismic altogether.

This would be about the only code amendment that makes life easier. Of course, we have soil issues others don't that cost us an arm and a leg...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

From talking to the guys at LM, their U of W building is currently held up because somebody got all uppity about the usage of EIFS in downtown. So we already have unrealistic expectations about what's feasible in this city, now we have more.

Ugh. Keep that shit out on Kenaston, please.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

Ugh. Keep that shit out on Kenaston, please.

Everybody would construct with the best materials possible if they could. Believe me. At the end of the day, why wouldn't you want a beautiful building you could be proud of?

But at the end of the day, it's not like somebody is choosing EIFS over masonry because they're being greedy - they're choosing EIFS because it's the only feasible material. That goes doubly for downtown. We want the best materials and the most architecturally complete buildings in the one area almost nobody is prepared to live. You'd more likely command a premium in Whyte Ridge than downtown...

[esquire]

I'm not expecting nothing but amazing curtain wall buildings downtown, but the city has to draw the line somewhere. Once you start getting into low-grade EIFS then corrugated sheet metal and plywood can't be too far behind.

But seriously, the city has demonstrated a willingness to let EIFS slide downtown if it's reasonable... just look at the Alt Hotel. I shudder to think about what LM must have floated to fail to meet that standard.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

just a banner

i stand corrected, i originally said the ALT was a banner as I was viewing it form a distance, now that I've seen it real close, it's the final thing. hopefully it's well lit as it's very colourful

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

i stand corrected, i originally said the ALT was a banner as I was viewing it form a distance, now that I've seen it real close, it's the final thing. hopefully it's well lit as it's very colourful

The ALT is hideously fugly and looks like crap! Have I mentioned in these threads that it looks like crap.....

The old bank façade tacked onto this hideous, fugly piece of crap enters into the realm of frankentecture, it's opening on a Halloween night would be fitting!

[esquire]

^ The old bank facade does nothing for the overall appearance of the project. It really seems like some sort of strange, poorly integrated, out of context appendage. They might as well have just knocked it down for all the difference that keeping the facade makes.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm not expecting nothing but amazing curtain wall buildings downtown, but the city has to draw the line somewhere. Once you start getting into low-grade EIFS then corrugated sheet metal and plywood can't be too far behind.

But seriously, the city has demonstrated a willingness to let EIFS slide downtown if it's reasonable... just look at the Alt Hotel. I shudder to think about what LM must have floated to fail to meet that standard.

I actually don't think it was the city that rejected it. I think somebody with the Plug-In took issue with it.

Either way, I'm not even sure where this stands at the moment. I won't be surprised if it's EIFS when it's all said and done, anyway. There's nothing else feasible given they're expecting a large proportion of affordable rents.

And we have to be realistic - I'd rather have an EIFS building with people
than nothing. Look at The Element on Sherbrook. That was a great project for what it brought to the neighourhood. It's definitely not a beautiful building, but we can all live with some EIFS if brings some density. Certainly the businesses on the strip aren't heartbroken about it...

[esquire]

^ Fair enough, Element is not bad and certainly does not detract from its surroundings. But West Broadway is not the same as downtown either.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Fair enough, Element is not bad and certainly does not detract from its surroundings. But West Broadway is not the same as downtown either.

Well, mid-block on Colony between Portage and Broadway, directly adjacent an auto-glass business and nearly fully obscured by the WAG isn't exactly the sort of landmark territory you'll be taking your guests on their tour through downtown either...

[headhorse]

Banana Boat re-development at 390 Osborne

from dinprojects.ca

[esquire]

Ice cream for hipsters?

But seriously, that is a great looking project. It's not spectacular, but it's exactly what that stretch of Osborne needs more of... a little more density and a little more walkability in an area that lacks both.