Winnipeg Construction VIII

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Yeah...most new construction rentals I see are looking for $2.20 per square foot....its has risen in the last few years...was under $2.00 not long ago.

Next we have to get hotel rental rates up to make new hotel construction viable.

New national building energy code comes into effect next month which will kill all development in Winnipeg anyways...especially low margin development like multi-family residential.....we have also seen our last curtain wall building in this city....glad I got mine in.

Everything's getting an overhaul for 2015. How would most of these worthless bureaucrats keep themselves employed if they didn't pretend like they were saving lives at every turn?

But in all seriousness - TV, if you could, expound a little on the effects of the new code on low-rise, combustible construction. Given that this is the lion's share of our city's development, I'm curious as to where you think the cost increases are coming from a design standpoint...

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Yeah...most new construction rentals I see are looking for $2.20 per square foot....its has risen in the last few years...was under $2.00 not long ago.

Next we have to get hotel rental rates up to make new hotel construction viable.

New national building energy code comes into effect next month which will kill all development in Winnipeg anyways...especially low margin development like multi-family residential.....we have also seen our last curtain wall building in this city....glad I got mine in.

Just wondering, were you on the median between ALT and the MTS Centre yesterday afternoon (4ish PM), with a camera guy? I swore I saw you, but I'm not sure!

As or construction costs, oil has fallen to $70 a barrel. Would that help out in terms of development costs, and reduce the $$$ per sq. foot?

[Biff]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Yeah...most new construction rentals I see are looking for $2.20 per square foot....its has risen in the last few years...was under $2.00 not long ago.

Next we have to get hotel rental rates up to make new hotel construction viable.

New national building energy code comes into effect next month which will kill all development in Winnipeg anyways...especially low margin development like multi-family residential.....we have also seen our last curtain wall building in this city....glad I got mine in.

I don't think it will be that bad. Large glass spaces will become a little more challenging. I think over all, most quality building designs already achieve this standard so there wont be much of an issue. Buildings with large overhead doors and cheap base building, spec strip mall type structures will require more work.

At the end of the day it will just mean better construction, and energy conservation in a city with a harsh environment.

[Winnipeg Architect]

[QUOTE=Simplicity;6786594]Everything's getting an overhaul for 2015. How would most of these worthless bureaucrats keep themselves employed if they didn't pretend like they were saving lives at every turn?

Holy crap.........You are Preaching the Choir.

Most of these bureaucrats just dream up crap to cost everyone more money.

ASHRAE 62/04 code is garbage. It is over the top for ventilation rates.

Make Up Air for apartments is insane. Most owners disconnect them after construction as they cannot afford the power/gas to run them. Same goes for Auto Service Shops etc. These are just the facts.

This is Winnipeg and the people that write these codes live in Southern USA where they do not get Winter like here. No clue on operating costs.

[Cyro]

Curious if 287 Broadway has finished their renovations, exterior/interior as of this month?


Here's their present time line:

www.287broadway.com/timeline.html


cohlarch.ca

Quite honestly the new exterior/re-clad is rather unappealing in person.

[Biff]

^^^ Funny, because that is one renovation that I find rather ugly. There is really nothing about it that I like.

[Cyro]

^ I didn't want to post an actual photo of the building, it really bothers me, the render is actually much better than the actual completed exterior in real life.

[Jack1983]

Does anyone have any idea what is getting built on Goulet at Kenny? Precast piling has gone in the last few weeks.

I have not seen signs at the site saying what it is. Looks like the Marion/Goulet stretch slowly filling in.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by Cyro

^ I didn't want to post an actual photo of the building, it really bothers me, the render is actually much better than the actual completed exterior in real life.

Yes, in the rendering, it looks quite nice and as a redo, there are limitations and likely on a budget. However, the finished product on the exterior is even less than boring and pedestrian!

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

Yes, in the rendering, it looks quite nice and as a redo, there are limitations and likely on a budget. However, the finished product on the exterior is even less than boring and pedestrian!

It's like they modernized the 50's.

[1ajs]

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Biff

I don't think it will be that bad. Large glass spaces will become a little more challenging. I think over all, most quality building designs already achieve this standard so there wont be much of an issue. Buildings with large overhead doors and cheap base building, spec strip mall type structures will require more work.

At the end of the day it will just mean better construction, and energy conservation in a city with a harsh environment.

i dont share your optimism....certainly most buildings don't achieve it now....almost none do....R30 effective walls are not easy to achieve. The typical double girt system with rigid insulation is completely out...that is the most common wall section there is....its not just a case of adding more insulation....its going to take a complete re-think.

there will be a lot more EIFS.

the 30% openings is a pretty significant issue...the Family Centre better not burn down because it wont be possible to rebuild it now...Glasshouse condos will never happen again....going to be a lot more buildings looking like the heritage landing project.

As for low rise combustible...no more batt insulation in the cavity walls...not exclusively anyways....will have to be a combination of rigid and batt to achieve the R30 effective....I still don't know how you support the insulation without the thermal breaks....less glazing for those small residential units. Walls are going to get thick...it will be an issue to support anything other than EIFS, which the new code was based on.

The whole thing is self policing, so maybe the industry just decides to override the code and just add an inch or two of rigid insulation and call it a day.

it will be interesting to see how it plays out....

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Cyro

Curious if 287 Broadway has finished their renovations, exterior/interior as of this month?


Here's their present time line:

www.287broadway.com/timeline.html


cohlarch.ca

Quite honestly the new exterior/re-clad is rather unappealing in person.

This project must have had some serious snags on the way, because the exterior (other than some windows facing the lane) has been pretty much done for over a year. For some reason though, the main floor only gets touched once every two months it seems.

Originally Posted by 1ajs

I'm really excited for this project because it means their huge building on Sherbrook will be vacated. Hopefully, it either gets retrofitted to have multiple storefronts or torn down and replaced with something that suits the direction Sherbrook is going better.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by trueviking

i dont share your optimism....certainly most buildings don't achieve it now....almost none do....R30 effective walls are not easy to achieve. The typical double girt system with rigid insulation is completely out...that is the most common wall section there is....its not just a case of adding more insulation....its going to take a complete re-think.

there will be a lot more EIFS.

the 30% openings is a pretty significant issue...the Family Centre better not burn down because it wont be possible to rebuild it now...Glasshouse condos will never happen again....going to be a lot more buildings looking like the heritage landing project.

As for low rise combustible...no more batt insulation in the cavity walls...not exclusively anyways....will have to be a combination of rigid and batt to achieve the R30 effective....I still don't know how you support the insulation without the thermal breaks....less glazing for those small residential units. Walls are going to get thick...it will be an issue to support anything other than EIFS, which the new code was based on.

The whole thing is self policing, so maybe the industry just decides to override the code and just add an inch or two of rigid insulation and call it a day.

it will be interesting to see how it plays out....

The simple answer to this is a combination of EIFS on non-combustible walls and vinyl siding everywhere else. And everybody deserves it.

There's absolutely no rationale for R30 walls; none whatsoever.

The industry is only self-policing to an extent. There isn't one ignorant, lazy, union troll in the plans examination branch who is going to accept an argument for anything less than the number they can (barely) read. And then you'll have the councilors and citizens bitching during community committee meetings for plan approval about how the neighbourhood is too precious for the economical exterior cladding; their entitlement demands more.

If I'm in the masonry business, I'm shitting myself right now; what are you going to do, frame everything with 2 x 8 studs?

If anybody is wondering why there's no affordable housing, you can thank your friendly neighbourhood bureaucrat.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by buzzg

This project must have had some serious snags on the way, because the exterior (other than some windows facing the lane) has been pretty much done for over a year. For some reason though, the main floor only gets touched once every two months it seems.



I'm really excited for this project because it means their huge building on Sherbrook will be vacated. Hopefully, it either gets retrofitted to have multiple storefronts or torn down and replaced with something that suits the direction Sherbrook is going better.

Epic isn't going anywhere. The company was sold but the ownership of the building was retained by the prior ownership. They continue to operate Epic from that building and will continue to even when this data center is complete. The new building is strictly server space; nothing more. There will be something on the order of 12 employees there at any given time, but it's not designed to house any of the existing operations for the company.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by Cyro

Curious if 287 Broadway has finished their renovations, exterior/interior as of this month?


Quite honestly the new exterior/re-clad is rather unappealing in person.

That thing is taking forever, they've had a sushi restaurant on main floor open and close already. brutal how it's not getting finished

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by buzzg

This project must have had some serious snags on the way, because the exterior (other than some windows facing the lane) has been pretty much done for over a year. For some reason though, the main floor only gets touched once every two months it seems.



I'm really excited for this project because it means their huge building on Sherbrook will be vacated. Hopefully, it either gets retrofitted to have multiple storefronts or torn down and replaced with something that suits the direction Sherbrook is going better.

no they arnt moving outa the space on sherbrook this new one is a data center not offices and i know this cause the company i work for has an office in the epic building and we have to move to make more room for them.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

The simple answer to this is a combination of EIFS on non-combustible walls and vinyl siding everywhere else. And everybody deserves it.

There's absolutely no rationale for R30 walls; none whatsoever.

The industry is only self-policing to an extent. There isn't one ignorant, lazy, union troll in the plans examination branch who is going to accept an argument for anything less than the number they can (barely) read. And then you'll have the councilors and citizens bitching during community committee meetings for plan approval about how the neighbourhood is too precious for the economical exterior cladding; their entitlement demands more.

If I'm in the masonry business, I'm shitting myself right now; what are you going to do, frame everything with 2 x 8 studs?

If anybody is wondering why there's no affordable housing, you can thank your friendly neighbourhood bureaucrat.

absolutely, we are shitting too....this is not about just doing it right or weeding out the bottom feeders....the building industry has no idea what's about to hit it.

even an 8" stud wont help....the issue is the 'effective' part.....we get tested values of 6" batt in a steel stud wall of R8....R8!....its not a case of just adding an inch of rigid to a typical wall to get to R30....our typical R20 wall detail with added insulation to get to the R30 value is testing at about half that value...we are not sure which way to turn...one thing is for sure, its going to cost developers a lot more money....and its going to change the way buildings in Winnipeg look....its a massive issue in our climate zone of the code.

[drew]

Originally Posted by trueviking

As for low rise combustible...no more batt insulation in the cavity walls...not exclusively anyways....will have to be a combination of rigid and batt to achieve the R30 effective....I still don't know how you support the insulation without the thermal breaks....less glazing for those small residential units. Walls are going to get thick...it will be an issue to support anything other than EIFS, which the new code was based on.

The whole thing is self policing, so maybe the industry just decides to override the code and just add an inch or two of rigid insulation and call it a day.

it will be interesting to see how it plays out....

I was discussing the low-rise wood framed stuff with an architect we work with. They found that what we have been designing in the past for walls and roof actually exceeds the what is required under the new code for everything above grade. That includes some pretty glazing heavy, "higher end" developments. The reason is the "trade-off" allowance. If the windows and doors you spec. are of higher quality, and the glazing area is less that the max. allowed, you can "trade-off" from what is required in the exterior walls. For the typical low-rise stuff, not much will change above ground.

The one issue is in the foundation. You require R-20 effective in the foundation walls now, and in some cases under areas of the basement floor. That is one area where things will need to change from what is "typical now".

Overall, from what I have heard the biggest issue will be the sign-off in the end by the consultant taking responsibility. And of course, how the powers that be at the City enforce things.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

If I'm in the masonry business, I'm shitting myself right now; what are you going to do, frame everything with 2 x 8 studs?

Nobody makes (or can make) solid, load bearing exterior masonry walls anymore.

Exterior masonry veneer is always part of a cavity wall system, with the masonry separated from the wall assembly by 1", with brick ties connecting the masonry back to the structure. Whether that separation is from what was typically a membrane on wall sheathing to what will now MIGHT be membrane on rigid insulation is irrelevant.

You can still use masonry - you may just need a thicker wall assembly behind it for the R-value. Or trade-off somewhere else to keep the wall values the same (i.e higher end windows and doors, lower glazing percentage than the max. allowed, etc.)