Urban vs Suburban - 2 styles enter, one style leaves!

[Spring2008]

OT but if you scroll down to historical pop, NY grew by ~2M people from 1890 to 1900, or 200k per year - insanity. Puts our growth into perspective.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

OT but if you scroll down to historical pop, NY grew by ~2M people from 1890 to 1900, or 200k per year - insanity. Puts our growth into perspective.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City

It was actually closer to one million. Between 1890 and 1900, New York grew a lot through annexation.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by speedog

So a discussion in the "Chestermere to Become Alberta's 18th City" thread in the "Alberta & British Columbia" section got me wondering what would be considered a suburban community versus an urban community in Calgary. I'll pick on central-north/NW Calgary because I've resided in that area for the past 28 years -so the communities I've lived in or am currently living in below, are any considered suburbs or are they urban communities...

1 - West Dalhousie (west of 53rd Street NW) - I'd consider this a suburb.
2 - West Hillhurst (23rd Street NW south of Kensington) - some would consider urban but the honest truth is there's not much of convenience close to this area.
3 - Rosemont - urban, suburban? What is it, no local conveniences to speak of really, zoned R1 for the most part?
4 - Mount Pleasant - probably urban although there are certain things that are not within an easy walking distance (some schooling). Some blocks have probably seen most of their housing almost completely replaced in the past 10 years.
5 - Highwood - urban, suburban? More convenient things for a family within a easy walking distance as compared to Rosemont even though it's farther out from the core. Zoned mostly R2 but not seeing a lot of sub-dividing of lots yet and actually seeing more of the mid-50's bungalows either being renovated or torn down and replaced with a new bungalow.

So because I own and live in a mid-50's bungalow on a 60-110 lot in Highwood, is that considered to be a suburb just because of lot size along? I certainly got the impression from another forum member that that was the case but there are a number of communities that are quite close to the core where one can still own a nice sized older bungalow on a very large lot - Highwood is barely over a 5km drive from the core as is the very nice community of Southview (under 5 km), Mayland Heights - under 4km.

So are communities such as these three suburbs or not? Interesting also because the array of services/amenities in these communities is as good if not better than in some communities that some would consider urban? I have all three levels of public schooling, a community operated outdoor swimming pool and skating rink, a community center all within 5 blocks of my home. We've got a very good variety of restaurants within a 10 minute walk of our home as well as a great variety of services as well including grocery shopping, drug stores and even hardware stores/vehicle maintenance places within a 10 minute walk of our home and yet many would consider Highwood to be a suburb?

So help me understand what is a suburb and what is not in Calgary - what are the qualifications or factors that go into this determination?

Re Mt Pleasant Schools

Seems like we do pretty well till grade 9, but even then, Fowler and Crescent are only 5-10 blocks away from the edges of the community

[speedog]

Low density? Hey, like I know of a single family home that will be coming on the market real quick that screams low density - 1,300 square foot 1955 3 bedroom bungalow on a sub-dividable 9420 square foot lot (150x72). Will be very attractive to developers as the subdivided lots would still be over 4,600 square feet each and very deep at 150 feet but I also know of someone who just wants to buy it to renovate the house to live in, knock down the single garage and put up a 3-4 car garage. Myself, I'd rather see the original home stay and be renovated nicely - will be interesting to see what happens.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by speedog

Low density? Hey, like I know of a single family home that will be coming on the market real quick that screams low density - 1,300 square foot 1955 3 bedroom bungalow on a sub-dividable 9420 square foot lot (150x72). Will be very attractive to developers as the subdivided lots would still be over 4,600 square feet each and very deep at 150 feet but I also know of someone who just wants to buy it to renovate the house to live in, knock down the single garage and put up a 3-4 car garage. Myself, I'd rather see the original home stay and be renovated nicely - will be interesting to see what happens.

I would build 4 homes on that parcel.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by fusili

I would build 4 homes on that parcel.

Too bad for you as the zoning won't allow for such.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by speedog

Too bad for you as the zoning won't allow for such.

You can rezone it. *crosses fingers*

[fusili]

Originally Posted by speedog

Too bad for you as the zoning won't allow for such.

Actually, just looked it up, you can (I assume this is R-C2). You can subdivide and build two singles with two detached garden or garage suites (or basement suites). Just squeaks by the lot width and parcel area requirements.

[kora]

Downtown living the 'new normal,' report says
Employers move to urban cores to attract qualified workers, retail follows
CBC News
Oct 28, 2014

An annual outlook on real estate trends by consultancy PricewaterhouseCoopers and the non-profit Urban Land Institute said urban living has ceased to be an emerging trend and is now the “new normal.”

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/downtown-living-the-new-normal-report-says-1.2815490

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by kora

Downtown living the 'new normal,' report says
Employers move to urban cores to attract qualified workers, retail follows
CBC News
Oct 28, 2014

An annual outlook on real estate trends by consultancy PricewaterhouseCoopers and the non-profit Urban Land Institute said urban living has ceased to be an emerging trend and is now the “new normal.”

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/downtown-living-the-new-normal-report-says-1.2815490

Interesting read. Not too surprising as we have already seen the trend here in Calgary.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by fusili

Actually, just looked it up, you can (I assume this is R-C2). You can subdivide and build two singles with two detached garden or garage suites (or basement suites). Just squeaks by the lot width and parcel area requirements.

It is R-C2 and it will be listed very soon - owner has moved into a full care facility and property will most likely be priced for a quick sale. I would expect it to be listed between 550 and 570,000 - will be interesting to see if developers will go after it because of the size of the two lots that could be created. Lot is situated so as to allow for a front under-drive garage plus a detached garage out back. Recent sales in Highwood - link.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

Interesting read. Not too surprising as we have already seen the trend here in Calgary.

We've seen the trend in both directions. Some companies are moving out of the core as well. Non O&G companies, and service companies in particular. DT is just getting too expensive for them.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by speedog

It is R-C2 and it will be listed very soon - owner has moved into a full care facility and property will most likely be priced for a quick sale. I would expect it to be listed between 550 and 570,000 - will be interesting to see if developers will go after it because of the size of the two lots that could be created. Lot is situated so as to allow for a front under-drive garage plus a detached garage out back. Recent sales in Highwood - link.

Holy smoking tentacle monster batman! 570K for that size of lot.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by fusili

Holy smoking tentacle monster batman! 570K for that size of lot.

Is that a lot or not? The reason I ask is because the last home of the third page of this link which details recent sales in Highwood is for a 1165 square foot 3 bedroom bungalow on a 60x110 lot (69 Hartford Road NW) with a single detached garage. Interior was pretty much original from the late 50's and it sold for $540,000 - the people who bought it moved in and are renovating to stay there. So are these prices high or low for what one is getting here?

It is interesting to me because we paid $138,000 for our bungalow in Highwood back in 1996 and today it would appear that it would probably sell in the high-500's - low-600's because of the size of our bungalow - crazy to think that it's quadrupled in price in 18 years.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by speedog

It is R-C2 and it will be listed very soon - owner has moved into a full care facility and property will most likely be priced for a quick sale. I would expect it to be listed between 550 and 570,000 - will be interesting to see if developers will go after it because of the size of the two lots that could be created. Lot is situated so as to allow for a front under-drive garage plus a detached garage out back. Recent sales in Highwood - link.

Front garages won't be approved if a rear lane exists under R-C2

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by fusili

Actually, just looked it up, you can (I assume this is R-C2). You can subdivide and build two singles with two detached garden or garage suites (or basement suites). Just squeaks by the lot width and parcel area requirements.

Be interesting which one would net you more:

3 detached narrows on 24' lots (3x 700k) - 2.1M
2 semi detached & 1 detached (2x 600k, 1x 700k) - 1.9M
2 detached on 36' lots with accessory suites (2x 900k) - 1.8M

Prices are WAG's based on Mt. Pleasant, particularly the last as I don't know of many if any of these that have been built.

[Me&You]

Originally Posted by speedog

Low density? Hey, like I know of a single family home that will be coming on the market real quick that screams low density - 1,300 square foot 1955 3 bedroom bungalow on a sub-dividable 9420 square foot lot (150x72). Will be very attractive to developers as the subdivided lots would still be over 4,600 square feet each and very deep at 150 feet but I also know of someone who just wants to buy it to renovate the house to live in, knock down the single garage and put up a 3-4 car garage. Myself, I'd rather see the original home stay and be renovated nicely - will be interesting to see what happens.

Originally Posted by speedog

It is R-C2 and it will be listed very soon - owner has moved into a full care facility and property will most likely be priced for a quick sale. I would expect it to be listed between 550 and 570,000 - will be interesting to see if developers will go after it because of the size of the two lots that could be created. Lot is situated so as to allow for a front under-drive garage plus a detached garage out back. Recent sales in Highwood - link.

That seems like a really good deal.

I have a good friend (not a flipper, developer, etc) looking for something to renovate and live in long term in that part of town. PM me if the person you know isn't taking it; I'd like to put him in touch or give him some details.

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Front garages won't be approved if a rear lane exists under R-C2

If they have an existing curb cut they can reuse it, just can't widen it. Unless 50% of the houses on that block have front drives already, then they can add more or expand.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

If they have an existing curb cut they can reuse it, just can't widen it. Unless 50% of the houses on that block have front drives already, then they can add more or expand.

The second part bugs me, why is it we allow past mistakes to propagate?

[speedog]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

If they have an existing curb cut they can reuse it, just can't widen it. Unless 50% of the houses on that block have front drives already, then they can add more or expand.

Lucky if more than 2 homes on the affected block have front drives so to get approval for two or three new ones probably wouldn't be too big of a hurdle to overcome and I'm not sure the CA would necessarily object either.