Highway 417 Widening

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by Dado

Today I happened to drive west on Hwy 417 all the way past the Hwy 7 turnoff.

The MTO sure has some odd predilections. One would have thought that in building 3 westbound lanes to Hwy 7 one of those three lanes would exit at Hwy 7, combined with the Carp Rd onramp, such that 3+1 lanes become 2 and 2. But no. The 3 lanes go past the Hwy 7 exit, where, as far as I can tell from the preliminary painting, the leftmost lane ends somewhere before the Hwy 7 overpasses.

Personally I would have designed it such that Hwy 7 left Hwy 417 from the left side, like Hwy 416, but then again MTO would probably find a way to screw that up too, like they did with the Hwy 416 exit.

I haven't driven that way since May-June, but you're able to continue at 100km/h when exiting right for Hwy 7 and maintain that speed as you turn back over the 417 and continue on 7. If I understand you correctly, I too would have had the 3 lanes end at 7 as oppose to after.

[eltodesukane]

In the future, Ottawa will grows much bigger. (How fast? I don't know)
I wonder, 30 years from now, how they will be able to again widen Highway 417.

[Mulder]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

It surprises me that they dont open in phases, say from Moodie to Castlefrank while they continue work from Castlefrank to Hwy 7. Somehow I am sure it is a liability issue, but I am pretty sure it would help lessen the traffic issues currently seen, even at 9 am on a Sunday.
I really hate not seeing incremental openings. Like the 17 expansion from Arnprior West. Dont wait for the appropriations, build what you can and open it as soon as you can because it only benefits the population and in turn the economy.

Traffic predictions warranted it. You also save a ton of money doing it in one shot. Economy's of scale.

[Mulder]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

In the future, Ottawa will grows much bigger. (How fast? I don't know)
I wonder, 30 years from now, how they will be able to again widen Highway 417.

Depends on the location of growth.

There is plenty of room to widen the 417 again though Kanata. The issue will be where the City wants to encourage growth. Then they have to get the jump on it with Transit first.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

It surprises me that they dont open in phases, say from Moodie to Castlefrank while they continue work from Castlefrank to Hwy 7. Somehow I am sure it is a liability issue, but I am pretty sure it would help lessen the traffic issues currently seen, even at 9 am on a Sunday.
I really hate not seeing incremental openings. Like the 17 expansion from Arnprior West. Dont wait for the appropriations, build what you can and open it as soon as you can because it only benefits the population and in turn the economy.

I drive this everyday.... City to Kanata in the morning... back to city in afternoon.

On the surface I agree with you.... just open bits as they are done... however as a practical matter I think this would cause more problems than it solves.

It's already confusing enough in that the 417-past-Moodie lane reductions/non-reductions change every couple of weeks... add to that fast rush-hour morning traffic... in the dark... and it's just a recipe for disaster. People just get used to one configuration and bam... there's a whole new set of cones/rules to get used to. I have seen more than one near crash due to confusion over lanes and cone placements.

I'm now a firm convert to "just finish the darn thing and open it all at once".

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by Dado

Today I happened to drive west on Hwy 417 all the way past the Hwy 7 turnoff.

The MTO sure has some odd predilections. One would have thought that in building 3 westbound lanes to Hwy 7 one of those three lanes would exit at Hwy 7, combined with the Carp Rd onramp, such that 3+1 lanes become 2 and 2. But no. The 3 lanes go past the Hwy 7 exit, where, as far as I can tell from the preliminary painting, the leftmost lane ends somewhere before the Hwy 7 overpasses.

Personally I would have designed it such that Hwy 7 left Hwy 417 from the left side, like Hwy 416, but then again MTO would probably find a way to screw that up too, like they did with the Hwy 416 exit.

I don't see what the issue is with the 416 exit on 417 WB. I do agree that a lane drop (must exit on right side) at Highway 7 would be better. They couldn't do a left exit since the existing bridge was in the way.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

In the future, Ottawa will grows much bigger. (How fast? I don't know)
I wonder, 30 years from now, how they will be able to again widen Highway 417.

There's room in Kanata for 10-12 lanes, but...

There's no room for any further widenings beyond 8 lanes between Highway 416 and Highway 174, so there's no much point to any further widening. Why have 12 lanes through Kanata when it has to collapse to 8 at the 416?

As the city grows and the 8 lane highway becomes congested, we'll depend on transit expansion to keep the city moving.

[OTSkyline]

^ Or we will look for an alternative.. like the Alta Vista Corridor

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by hwy418

I don't see what the issue is with the 416 exit on 417 WB.

It was supposed to be a proper right-hand exit with flyover from 417 to 416... but I believe that was eliminated to save money.

Issue is there are large trucks/semis cutting across to the 417 fast-lane on both the 417 exit to 416... and merge from 416 onto 417. Really messes with the traffic flow as the vast majority of traffic is driving straight through on the 417... and all these large slow moving vehicles show up where they're not supposed to.

[1overcosc]

^ Yep. Highway 416 was built during the extreme austerity of the Rae & Harris years and as such was subject to a huge amount of cost cutting. Aside from eliminating the 417WB->416SB flyover, it's also the reason why 416->401 access is only half complete (travelling between the 416 and the east part of the 401 requires using a local road).

[eemy]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

^ Yep. Highway 416 was built during the extreme austerity of the Rae & Harris years and as such was subject to a huge amount of cost cutting. Aside from eliminating the 417WB->416SB flyover, it's also the reason why 416->401 access is only half complete (travelling between the 416 and the east part of the 401 requires using a local road).

This is actually really common within the MTO. 401-402, 401-403 (Woodstock), 401-8, 401-416, and 400-11 are all examples of partial interchanges between expressways off the top of my head.

Edit: Oh yeah, and one of the biggies: 401-403 (Mississauga)

[Mulder]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

^ Yep. Highway 416 was built during the extreme austerity of the Rae & Harris years and as such was subject to a huge amount of cost cutting. Aside from eliminating the 417WB->416SB flyover, it's also the reason why 416->401 access is only half complete (travelling between the 416 and the east part of the 401 requires using a local road).

I don't know if it was part of the original plan, but the traffic volumes going that route are so low anyways that it would have likely never required a full interchange. You'd also have to blow up the bridge to the east. The way they have it currently configured works, and will likely work for a very very long time

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

It was supposed to be a proper right-hand exit with flyover from 417 to 416... but I believe that was eliminated to save money.

Issue is there are large trucks/semis cutting across to the 417 fast-lane on both the 417 exit to 416... and merge from 416 onto 417. Really messes with the traffic flow as the vast majority of traffic is driving straight through on the 417... and all these large slow moving vehicles show up where they're not supposed to.

But a right-hand exit with a flyover like that would have had big-time property impacts on NCC land along Watt's Creek and homes on Aero Dr. I think that is the real reason they went with a left-hand exit.

[BenTheGreat97]

Well maybe they could incorporate a few of our improvements if they rebuild the interchange to allow an 416 extension + 3km bridge across the river to Boulevard de Lucerne in Aylmer.

It doesn't really matter if it's a highway bridge or not, but the fact is, we also needs at least a Kettle Island bridge + another bridge in the West End. Island Park is too far for people in the West End, and building two more bridges would reduce the traffic on the downtown portion of the highway and in the downtown core city streets.

And I know that this is a controversial opinion, but I'd like to see Hunt Club turned into an expressway. Between the 416 and Merivale, it's standards are pretty high and people regularly go 100-110km/h there (off-peak) anyway. It coule be 6-8 lanes 416-Merivale, then turn into a 6-lane sunken expressway flanked by collector roads, kind-of like a cross between the Autoroute Décarie and A-520 in Montreal. I don't know how designers would handle interchanges with Prince of Wales, the Rideau River Bridge, then Riverside, but it would be interesting to see what they (or readers here) could come up with.

[hwy418]

VMS sign at Walkley Rd was powered-up this afternoon with "Test Message" displayed.

[MaxHeadroom]

Originally Posted by BenTheGreat97

And I know that this is a controversial opinion, but I'd like to see Hunt Club turned into an expressway.

I agree, but I think this ship has sailed. Maybe 10 years ago, but now there are too many driveways accessing Hunt Club to ever make this work. It's frustrating that Ottawa continues to encourage sprawl but refuses to build a proper network of roads and freeways to accomodate it, because face it, trains and buses aren't going to cut it.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by MaxHeadroom

I agree, but I think this ship has sailed. Maybe 10 years ago, but now there are too many driveways accessing Hunt Club to ever make this work. It's frustrating that Ottawa continues to encourage sprawl but refuses to build a proper network of roads and freeways to accomodate it, because face it, trains and buses aren't going to cut it.

If the city can keep the momentum going on transit expansion with more projects like the Baseline BRT that improve crosstown mobility, and improve walkability and development quality outside the core, we should be good. It's a mammoth challenge--especially the second part--but I'm cautiously optimistic we can do it.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by BenTheGreat97

And I know that this is a controversial opinion, but I'd like to see Hunt Club turned into an expressway. Between the 416 and Merivale, it's standards are pretty high and people regularly go 100-110km/h there (off-peak) anyway. It coule be 6-8 lanes 416-Merivale, then turn into a 6-lane sunken expressway flanked by collector roads, kind-of like a cross between the Autoroute Décarie and A-520 in Montreal. I don't know how designers would handle interchanges with Prince of Wales, the Rideau River Bridge, then Riverside, but it would be interesting to see what they (or readers here) could come up with.

I think West of Merivale and east of Conroy this would still be very viable. I was actually on that new stretch leading to the 417 last night and noticed how highway like it is, and also without on speedometer (I focus on the road and traffic) how fast I was driving on the thing (~100 and traffic was pulling away from me)

I think there would be noticing wrong with having something more freeway further out and then dropping down to "big busy road" further into the city. Sorta reminds me of highway 7 in Carleton place.

[Mulder]

Originally Posted by hwy418

VMS sign at Walkley Rd was powered-up this afternoon with "Test Message" displayed.

Same for the one near Bronson this morning

[MountainView]

From last night:

417 EB approaching Parkdale