HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > City Compilations


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #5161  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 3:54 PM
ILovePhilly ILovePhilly is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by jn00 View Post
I think Naked Philly is incorrect. I read the zoning notice and it seems that they're looking to build a multifamily building with ground floor retail. No idea where NP is getting its story from. It's definitely not a high rise, but supposed to be 5 stories and the retail is great.
I hope you are correct! That would make me much happier.


I once wanted to make a map of the "most endangered parking lots in Center City" - and like many things I never got around to it but it is almost like I don't need to and all of the lots are disappearing!!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5162  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 4:21 PM
summersm343's Avatar
summersm343 summersm343 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 18,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by jn00 View Post
I think Naked Philly is incorrect. I read the zoning notice and it seems that they're looking to build a multifamily building with ground floor retail. No idea where NP is getting its story from. It's definitely not a high rise, but supposed to be 5 stories and the retail is great.
Well that makes me feel much better about it then. As long as it has ground floor retail I won't mind, even if I do think a highrise should be going here.

Edit: just read the zoning notice. It does say 5 story structure with ground floor retail. The building will have 9 dwelling units. I assume they will be for sale.

I feel much better about this now then.

Last edited by summersm343; Oct 21, 2014 at 4:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5163  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 5:28 PM
Jawnadelphia's Avatar
Jawnadelphia Jawnadelphia is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Wilmington, Delaware
Posts: 2,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
Well that makes me feel much better about it then. As long as it has ground floor retail I won't mind, even if I do think a highrise should be going here.

Edit: just read the zoning notice. It does say 5 story structure with ground floor retail. The building will have 9 dwelling units. I assume they will be for sale.

I feel much better about this now then.
Photographic evidence:
[IMG]Untitled by TallCoolOne2014, on Flickr[/IMG]

Please someone buy that Sunoco across the street and develop it!
[IMG] by TallCoolOne2014, on Flickr[/IMG]

Also... guys were on site on this corner - beginning construction process for 2108 Sansom, 12 homes.
[IMG] by TallCoolOne2014, on Flickr[/IMG]

And down on Chestnut - AQ Rittenhouse ... look out below!
[IMG]Untitled by TallCoolOne2014, on Flickr[/IMG]
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5164  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 5:42 PM
summersm343's Avatar
summersm343 summersm343 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 18,462
Nice pics TallCoolOne! I agree, the Rite Aid and the Sunoco on this stretch of Walnut need to be redeveloped.

Rite Aid lot redevelopment may be happening soon

Sunoco is going to be tough. I don't see this going anytime soon. It's pretty much the only Gas Station in Center City, the only gas station on this way to the highway, and rakes in A TON of cash.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5165  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 5:50 PM
iheartphilly's Avatar
iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
Philly Rising Up!
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: motherEarth
Posts: 3,263
here's the webcam link for AQ Rittenhouse in case anyone is interested:

http://www.truelook.com/clients/clemensconstruction-2021chestnut/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5166  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 6:20 PM
iamrobk iamrobk is offline
Future World Dictator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,799
Quote:
Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
Nice pics TallCoolOne! I agree, the Rite Aid and the Sunoco on this stretch of Walnut need to be redeveloped.

Rite Aid lot redevelopment may be happening soon

Sunoco is going to be tough. I don't see this going anytime soon. It's pretty much the only Gas Station in Center City, the only gas station on this way to the highway, and rakes in A TON of cash.
Long term, I think we all know that Sunoco won't be there. But honestly we still have so many other places that need development that I don't even care about it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5167  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 8:51 PM
McBane McBane is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3,707
Even Manhattan has gas stations! But I agree that long term that 21st and Walnut could be too valuable to remain a gas station. I'm trying to think where in CC I wouldn't mind a gas station and it's really hard to come up with a good spot that I wouldn't rather be developed into something else. Vine St in the Loft District (which already has a Shell and a car wash) seems appropriate as does Columbus Blvd (which has a Sunoco) and around Greys Ferry Ave (which I think has a gas station, too).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5168  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 8:57 PM
PhiLaw PhiLaw is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 774
Check out this philly.com article about the 25-34 demographic "flocking" to Center City:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Report...ls_living_in_Center_City_skyrockets.html
__________________
"Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5169  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 8:58 PM
iheartphilly's Avatar
iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
Philly Rising Up!
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: motherEarth
Posts: 3,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by McBane View Post
Even Manhattan has gas stations! But I agree that long term that 21st and Walnut could be too valuable to remain a gas station. I'm trying to think where in CC I wouldn't mind a gas station and it's really hard to come up with a good spot that I wouldn't rather be developed into something else. Vine St in the Loft District (which already has a Shell and a car wash) seems appropriate as does Columbus Blvd (which has a Sunoco) and around Greys Ferry Ave (which I think has a gas station, too).
If Sunoco gets a price on the land they can't refuse or make the rent/fees so high for the operator, that s/he will break or end the contract, then some developer should jump on the land.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5170  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 9:15 PM
summersm343's Avatar
summersm343 summersm343 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 18,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiLaw View Post
Check out this philly.com article about the 25-34 demographic "flocking" to Center City:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Report...ls_living_in_Center_City_skyrockets.html
GOT TO LOVE Philly.com's anti-city bias. Even in a positive article they put a negative spin on it lol by stating that the growth can't be sustained when millennials decide to raise a family and move out to the burbs. They do know the continual growth of NYC, LA, San Francisco, Boston, etc. is not from families correct?

Who is to say that everyone decides to raise a family? And those who do decide to raise a family and move out, who says they won't be replaced by other young professionals and recent grads moving into the city? There are no signs of this trend stopping over the next few decades.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5171  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 11:47 PM
VikingDutchman VikingDutchman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
GOT TO LOVE Philly.com's anti-city bias. Even in a positive article they put a negative spin on it lol by stating that the growth can't be sustained when millennials decide to raise a family and move out to the burbs. They do know the continual growth of NYC, LA, San Francisco, Boston, etc. is not from families correct?

Who is to say that everyone decides to raise a family? And those who do decide to raise a family and move out, who says they won't be replaced by other young professionals and recent grads moving into the city? There are no signs of this trend stopping over the next few decades.
If i can be honest, I see your perspective as essentially the same misguided perspective as theirs. You're still accepting the fundamental premise of "have family = move to the suburbs". A lot of young couples would LOVE to stay in the city and raise their families there, but most major US cities do such an unbelievable bad job of providing the basic needs for families, that those couples are without any choice. I'm not talking anything fancy here, I'm talking about school districts with better than minimal competency and even a modest number of apartments with more than 2 bedrooms (I also reject the supposition that every family desperately needs a single-family house). The brother of a friend of mine, who is in his mid-30s, recently told me that "average schools not under constant threat of apocalypse" were literally the "only" reason he, his wife and three year old son were leaving Graduate Hospital.

There is nothing ridiculous about raising families in cities. Millions and millions of children are being raised in cities right now. Relatively few are being raised in AMERICAN cities because the particulars of American urban policy and history since about 1930 has turned most cities into hostile, barren places for any family with enough resources to leave but not enough resources to replace the collapsed public commons with private alternatives. Before that period, and continuing well into it in parts of the country, many children of all kinds were raised quite happily in cities. Personally, i was raised in the wretched suburbs of perhaps the only country more suburban than the US (New Zealand), but most of the older members of my family were raised either in Dutch urban neighborhoods or in ancient Norwegian towns small in population but dense in street design and spatial composition.

And while I agree that the media approaches these issues in a ridiculous manner (it appears to be the practice of most American media now to never discuss WHY things might be a certain way, but simply to acknowledge how they are), failure to retain millennials (who, as you note, will not be young forever... the eldest are 34 this year!) is a very real threat. Millennials are the largest generation in American history, larger than their baby boomer parents, AND larger than the generation following them (do those kids have a name yet? I haven't heard one), and quite possibly larger than their own children's generation (assuming the US gradually follows the rest of the developed world towards sub-replacement fertility). So if we solely focus on a particular lifestyle, then yes, we may be betting on a declining horse.

Focusing on the current lifestyle preferences of young professionals is just as foolish as every other mad specialization cities, states, countries and all geographies in between have tried. What happens if there's another mass culture shift, away from cities? etc...

The only smart bet is to try to reconstitute our cities as the socially, economically and lifestyle-diverse places they have traditionally been. We have to find a way to rebuild comprehensive communities that work for as wide a range of people, households and yes, families, as possible. That will not spare us from all outside change, but it ought to help us do a lot better than we did when we had a federal government who thought that diversity was an enemy, and aggressively crafted systems to reorganize our lives along suburban siloed lines, a process so successful that even many of those who fled such places continue to follow their mental architecture as if it were unquestionable truth. Cities in other developed countries that didn't do this, or did this less, have fared much better. Contrary to popular American opinion, there are indeed suburbs in Europe, because some people will always want to live in such places, but there is far less absolute desecration of the city as a place for families to exist.

You name a set of cities that I often think of as "future Parises". By which I mean that while I expect them all to remain dearly loved, I wonder if they will become places not so much lived in as visited. Homes predominantly for the dead. By contrast you could look to cities in the Pacific Northwest, also doing very well: Portland, Seattle and Vancouver over the border. All of whom have made creating and protecting space for families in the city a priority.

Well, that's my ranting budget for the year.

Sincerely,

A Young Professional Who Loathes Cars, Loves Cities and Would Dearly Love to Have Children Without Going to The Suburbs.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5172  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2014, 12:13 AM
Guipos08 Guipos08 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SJ/Philly
Posts: 100
Is AQ Rittenhouse working on the 13 floor? I thought is was only going to be 12 stories. Hard to tell from the photo above.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5173  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2014, 1:56 AM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by VikingDutchman View Post
There is nothing ridiculous about raising families in cities. Millions and millions of children are being raised in cities right now. Relatively few are being raised in AMERICAN cities because the particulars of American urban policy and history since about 1930 has turned most cities into hostile, barren places for any family with enough resources to leave but not enough resources to replace the collapsed public commons with private alternatives. Before that period, and continuing well into it in parts of the country, many children of all kinds were raised quite happily in cities. Personally, i was raised in the wretched suburbs of perhaps the only country more suburban than the US (New Zealand), but most of the older members of my family were raised either in Dutch urban neighborhoods or in ancient Norwegian towns small in population but dense in street design and spatial composition.

And while I agree that the media approaches these issues in a ridiculous manner (it appears to be the practice of most American media now to never discuss WHY things might be a certain way, but simply to acknowledge how they are), failure to retain millennials (who, as you note, will not be young forever... the eldest are 34 this year!) is a very real threat. Millennials are the largest generation in American history, larger than their baby boomer parents, AND larger than the generation following them (do those kids have a name yet? I haven't heard one), and quite possibly larger than their own children's generation (assuming the US gradually follows the rest of the developed world towards sub-replacement fertility). So if we solely focus on a particular lifestyle, then yes, we may be betting on a declining horse.

Focusing on the current lifestyle preferences of young professionals is just as foolish as every other mad specialization cities, states, countries and all geographies in between have tried. What happens if there's another mass culture shift, away from cities? etc...

Well, that's my ranting budget for the year.

Sincerely,

A Young Professional Who Loathes Cars, Loves Cities and Would Dearly Love to Have Children Without Going to The Suburbs.
1. Millions of children are being educated in our American cities.

2. They may not look like what you want your children's classmates to look like.

3. Then do something about it. Do you think Meredith got to be Meredith without entrenched parents making it that way?

4. Did your brother even set foot in his local elementary school?

5. Have you ever considered going to Masterman, Central, Science Leadership Academy, Bodine, or any of the other very well regarded high schools in Philadelphia to talk to kids about how they ended up there? My guess is through their neighborhood elementary schools with the support of involved parents and a supportive community.

6. The city indeed has a long long way to go toward ensuring that good education is available to many more students, and to work towards it being the rule and not the exception, but to claim you cannot get a good education in the major urban school districts on the East Coast, including Philadelphia is patently untrue and frankly, intellectually lazy.

But go on propagating the same old suburban wise tails. True, a solid education in an urban district requires far more effort to obtain than is the case in many suburban districts, but by no means is it out of reach. And if anything, the options are for obtaining such an education are growing in our urban districts. Philadelphia's citizenry stands alone among it's East Coast peers...it expects the same urbanity as NYC and Boston and DC, but complains at any hint of inconvenience (parking, PPA, public transit, education, etc). Guess what? You can't expect to be able to live in a 3 bedroom apartment in the best urban neighborhoods with the best schools with easy access to everything...unless you are among the wealthiest people in your given city. It's the fundamental nature of vibrant cities. If you could, you'd be in, what? Grand Rapids? Phoenix? I'm sorry, but the economics simply don't work that way.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5174  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2014, 3:39 AM
VikingDutchman VikingDutchman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
1. Millions of children are being educated in our American cities.

2. They may not look like what you want your children's classmates to look like.

3. Then do something about it. Do you think Meredith got to be Meredith without entrenched parents making it that way?

4. Did your brother even set foot in his local elementary school?

5. Have you ever considered going to Masterman, Central, Science Leadership Academy, Bodine, or any of the other very well regarded high schools in Philadelphia to talk to kids about how they ended up there? My guess is through their neighborhood elementary schools with the support of involved parents and a supportive community.

6. The city indeed has a long long way to go toward ensuring that good education is available to many more students, and to work towards it being the rule and not the exception, but to claim you cannot get a good education in the major urban school districts on the East Coast, including Philadelphia is patently untrue and frankly, intellectually lazy.

But go on propagating the same old suburban wise tails. True, a solid education in an urban district requires far more effort to obtain than is the case in many suburban districts, but by no means is it out of reach. And if anything, the options are for obtaining such an education are growing in our urban districts. Philadelphia's citizenry stands alone among it's East Coast peers...it expects the same urbanity as NYC and Boston and DC, but complains at any hint of inconvenience (parking, PPA, public transit, education, etc). Guess what? You can't expect to be able to live in a 3 bedroom apartment in the best urban neighborhoods with the best schools with easy access to everything...unless you are among the wealthiest people in your given city. It's the fundamental nature of vibrant cities. If you could, you'd be in, what? Grand Rapids? Phoenix? I'm sorry, but the economics simply don't work that way.
I think you have completely missed my point here. Just about everything you've said I agree with, but is not really relevant to what I'm getting at.

I actually have been involved in community organizations related to education in the past (though not currently, as my career has taken me away from Philly, though I hope to be back in a year or two). I don't know if the man I was talking to, the brother of a friend, who I have met only a few times and do not know well, has been involved in his local schools in anyway. Regardless, his attitude is very common among many young professionals. My own brother is most certainly not involved with such things, but then he is a terrible person so that is neither here nor there

I absolutely believe and know that you can get a great education in urban public schools. No question. But I also know that many urban school districts remain woefully underfunded and underresourced. Many, such as Philadelphia's, remain sadly prone to fiscal savagery at the hands of state governments indifferent to the fate of urban schools. Not to mention that in some cities (not, to my knowledge, Philadelphia) school districts lack actual space, prior and present neglect and budget crises having led to the loss or sale of school facilities now needed once more. These are real problems, and cities will struggle to retain middle class families so long go unresolved. That's a hard pill for many cities, as the matter is often more or less out of their hands, but that doesn't make it any less true. Until some resolution is found, retention of middle class families will suffer. And the absence of their children hurts the kids left behind as well.

My complaint is not with the current state of things like education in cities like Philadelphia. My complaint is with an attitude, now worryingly common, among many proponents of urban spaces and urban development don't need to care about families. Indeed that families might actually be a negative. So many cities in this country are chasing the elusive young professional, with both governmental and private actors (developers, etc...) pursuing them with almost complete disregard for the fact that young professional is a life-stage not a species. By the time we reach the crucial tipping point in millennial aging, it may be too late to make the necessary investments and changes, all of which can require substantial lead-times, and many cities may miss the boat entirely. They'll do what many cities have done for years, forfeit families by default. They will almost certainly not forfeit mine, since as I noted in my original post you'd have to basically drag me kicking and screaming to the suburbs, but they will forfeit many. You cannot reasonably question that there are serious issues for parents in the city today, and in American cities generally. This is particularly true with respect to attracting families from outside the city, and keeping already present middle class couples interested in starting families. Both of which are essential if the city is to continue to stabilize, grow and revitalize. Those issues deserve serious consideration, discussion and investment, and I fear few cities are interested in doing the work.

My thoughts on zoning for larger apartments for families are another subject in and of themselves, but suffice to say they involve allowing much more density over a much greater footprint of the city, paired with the kind of family friendly unit requirements you see in those cities paying attention to such things. Yes a big apartment in Rittenhouse will always be out of the reach of most families, but that doesn't mean we can't put a decent number of families in respectable apartments in or near center city. But there's little to no chance of that happening. Instead cities seem to not only be failing to expand housing opportunities for families, but twiddling their thumbs while neighborhoods previously affordable to middle income families become less so. Real estate in dense areas will always be more expensive than in the suburbs, but we should not cheer when the city's failure to adequately expand supply sends prices in some previously middle income affordable neighborhoods so high that in a few years downpayments in the 6 figures might become routine.

Last edited by VikingDutchman; Oct 22, 2014 at 3:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5175  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2014, 4:03 PM
Larry King Larry King is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 976
I don't understand why you want government incentive to build larger apartment units for families.

Philadelphia is full of 3 bedroom homes, in every neighborhood there are tons of rowhouses that can easily accommodate a 3-4 person family.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5176  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2014, 4:22 PM
PhiLaw PhiLaw is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 774
This article from an architectural critic at the Denver Post makes Inga look like a pro-Philly sycophant:

http://www.denverpost.com/entertainment/...y-miss-train-union-stations-architecture
__________________
"Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5177  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2014, 7:05 PM
Insoluble Insoluble is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 655
Great posts VikingDutchman. As a parent of a child who is fast approaching school age, this is something I think about a lot. I absolutely believe that the city is a great place to raise a kid, and we've had a very positive experience so far. But the fact that the Philly school district threatens to self-destruct on a regular basis is concerning. As much as I dislike charter schools (for how they sap money from the regular schools, etc.), I'm ashamed to admit that we are seriously considering them as an option in case our current neighborhood school gets shut down.

On the other hand, school quality is very much a chicken and egg thing. The more wealthy families that move into a catchment, the more money there will be for the school (via donations, etc.) Higher socioeconomic status also tends to correlate with other things that make the school environment safer and better. So as more wealthy families move in, the schools will tend to get better, thus making the neighborhood more desirable and starting a positive feedback loop. This of course has all sorts of social issues wrapped up in it, but the long and short of it is that if we can convince at least some of the young educated professionals who have moved here to stay and raise a family, I think it will result in the school situation improving.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5178  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2014, 7:54 PM
McBane McBane is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3,707
3rd and Brown - I don't know much about you and don't want to generalize, but it doesn't sound like you have children. When you have children, experimenting with their education so you can live a certain lifestyle is not something most parents do. It's just a natural parent instinct to put your children first and do everything you can to help them succeed, even if it inconveniences you or requires a major lifestyle change.

Related to some of your points:

1) Yes millions of Americans are educated in cities but many of these students are children of families who would like to but can't afford to move to locales with better school districts. They're not urbanists, they're trapped. The color of their skin is of no consequence.

2) You cited the Merideth School. That's one good elementary school as is Penn Alexander and there are a few others. But they're located in catchment zones that are quite expensive. Sure, you can scrape by in a rundown, cramped one bedroom walkup with your spouse because you really really like living in the city, but it's a whole another ball game when you have to start searching for a 2 bedroom with adequate space for all your kids crap. And with a child sometimes comes the need to bite the bullet and get a car, which obviously opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. In sum, it can be prohibitively expensive for lots of people.

3) The explanation above is just for a 2 bedroom - you want to actually raise a family (and more than one kid) in the Penn Alex or Meredith catchment zones - a 3 to 4 bedroom home is going to run you at least a half million. Not everyone has that kind of money. And while there are decent to good elementary schools, I don't know of any good middle schools and or high schools (besides Master, which is impossible to get into, and Central).

4) Good students, no matter the district require involved parents. Just those living in the city need parents who are VERY involved. That can almost be a full time job. Perfect for a stay at home, but again, most people need two incomes, especially when you're plopping down a half million bucks for a home.

So if you want to live in the city without compromising your children's education, then you're really going to have to be a dedicated urbanist and have a damn good paying job. I know I can't afford that lifestyle and will eventually be departing for the suburbs.

Last edited by McBane; Oct 22, 2014 at 8:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5179  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2014, 8:16 PM
Brett/Rodger Brett/Rodger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 14
They had a topping off ceremony for AQ at Ritthouse today.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5180  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2014, 8:37 PM
iheartphilly's Avatar
iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
Philly Rising Up!
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: motherEarth
Posts: 3,263
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > City Compilations
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:27 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.