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  #5221  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2014, 9:05 PM
Mr. Ozo Mr. Ozo is offline
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Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Only 80 units of residential--how tall could it be? Assuming that those 80 units aren't included in the 16 story hotel building.
Not saying it would ever happen here but they are building some crazy stuff in New York now.

How about 31 units total in a 54 story tower?

http://www.520parkavenue.com/

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2014/09/18...entral_park_west_is_poised_to_launch.php

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Some of these are really tall towers without a lot of units. Some on 40 foot lots. Again, not excepting this to happen in Sac.

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2014/09/11/the_44_new_developments_hitting_the_market_this_fall.php
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  #5222  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2014, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by enigma99a View Post
It couldn't be mixed use? Condos on top?
Sure it could, that's what I meant about them being included in the hotel building, like the Marriott at 15th and L, which has condos on its upper floors. 15 stories does seem a little unambitious to me too, maybe they're playing it safe for the first phase of development.
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  #5223  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2014, 5:02 PM
fouroheight68 fouroheight68 is offline
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16 stories, that is really garbage. Hopefully the other developments will some real height, specially the residential.
We're lucky we're getting that height. Anything over 6 stories is the limit of wood framing (aka cheaper construction). Once we get into 6+ stories, were talking structural steel frame and metal stud framing which drives the prices up big time. Thats why we usually see 5 story condo projects downtown, because residential RE prices only support wood framed structures.
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  #5224  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2014, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by fouroheight68 View Post
We're lucky we're getting that height. Anything over 6 stories is the limit of wood framing (aka cheaper construction). Once we get into 6+ stories, were talking structural steel frame and metal stud framing which drives the prices up big time. Thats why we usually see 5 story condo projects downtown, because residential RE prices only support wood framed structures.
Not if they use CLT - 30 stories+
http://www.popsci.com/article/technology/world%E2%80%99s-most-advanced-building-material-wood
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  #5225  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2014, 5:42 PM
fouroheight68 fouroheight68 is offline
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Yeah, no one is using that. I've never even heard of it, I highly doubt it would meet the seismic criteria in California for a high rise.
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  #5226  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 9:21 PM
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Yeah, no one is using that. I've never even heard of it, I highly doubt it would meet the seismic criteria in California for a high rise.
It meets Japan's
http://www.xlam.co.nz/engineeringseismic
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  #5227  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2014, 5:03 PM
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K street project takes off again...

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/ne...cil-gives-final-ok-to-700-k-project.html

137 more apartments. That's cool that more people will be living downtown, ... but there are literally 3 condos for sale downtown and what seems like more then enough $2,000+ apartments. For that same rent, you could buy a 1,000 square foot $400,000 condo which would pay the builder their $400 per square foot they need to build them.
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  #5228  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2014, 3:52 AM
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The lack of ownership housing is a huge problem in downtown and midtown (90% of the housing is rental) but it's tough to manage with new construction. But a lot of those new luxury apartments are built to condo standards, so expect them to go condo after they reach 10 years old. And regarding the 700 block, keep in mind it's not just the apartments, but also a half-block of local businesses in the rehabbed commercial spaces along K Street, including a new cabaret/nightclub venue operated by the owners of the Shady Lady.
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  #5229  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2014, 7:16 PM
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Originally Posted by wburg View Post
The lack of ownership housing is a huge problem in downtown and midtown (90% of the housing is rental) but it's tough to manage with new construction. But a lot of those new luxury apartments are built to condo standards, so expect them to go condo after they reach 10 years old. And regarding the 700 block, keep in mind it's not just the apartments, but also a half-block of local businesses in the rehabbed commercial spaces along K Street, including a new cabaret/nightclub venue operated by the owners of the Shady Lady.
Please tell me it will not be another Whitney J. design! Can we please get some new creative designers that also have technical understanding--enough with the semi talented cheap DIY.
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  #5230  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2014, 3:38 AM
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I have no idea if Whtiney Johnson is involved or not. I imagine that because the half-block includes multiple storefronts, each may well utilize a different designer.
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  #5231  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 6:31 PM
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So Youssefi was able to shake down the city afterall. A more reputable developer would have been able to get financing. But whatever, at least it's moving forward...finally!

I have to ask wburg why he thinks that lack of home ownership is such a huge problem for the central city? Since the current economics does not favor home ownership in the central city I don't see things changing for at least 20 years. Instead we would be wise to treat renters with the same respect we give the property owners. I don't think the high % of renters is such a huge problem. But I think not providing the long-term renting residents the mechanisms in which to improve their community is troubling. Renter's contribution to the economy and social life of the central city is enormous, but largely ignored. We are still rather small-minded in this way. Do I want more home ownership in the central city/midtown? Yes. But we can't expect that to happen if the city kowtows to the out-of-area property owners and absentee landlords and does nothing to encourage residents (renters and owner-occupied alike) to take a vested interest in improving their surroundings. End of rant, thank you and goodnight.

Last edited by ozone; Oct 16, 2014 at 9:19 PM.
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  #5232  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 6:51 PM
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According to the SBJ the Whole Foods project "will feature additional parking at the corner of 21st and Capitol to replace a garage now on the project site. The parking structure will serve the Pappas-owned office building at 2020 L St."

If it's just a temporary replacement lot until the new garage is finished that's fine but no way should it remain a surface parking lot for years to come. Like deserted buildings, surface parking lots create opportunities for mischief in an urban neighborhood.

Last edited by ozone; Oct 16, 2014 at 9:15 PM.
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  #5233  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 9:32 PM
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Additional parking meaning surface parking? I thought surface parking was illegal in the grid?
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  #5234  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 9:35 PM
Mr. Ozo Mr. Ozo is offline
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I thought surface parking was illegal in the grid?
What would give you that idea? There is surface parking everywhere in the grid.
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  #5235  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 10:04 PM
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What would give you that idea? There is surface parking everywhere in the grid.
I'm talking about illegal now, of course there is legacy lots.
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  #5236  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 11:09 PM
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According to the SBJ the Whole Foods project "will feature additional parking at the corner of 21st and Capitol to replace a garage now on the project site. The parking structure will serve the Pappas-owned office building at 2020 L St."
.
http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2014/10/16/whats-new-with-midtown-whole-foods-plans.html

"The parking structure that will accompany a new Whole Foods Market in midtown will include ground-floor retail space, project developer Pappas Investments confirmed Wednesday."

I'm reading that to say that there will be retail with parking above on 21st and Capitol, not a surface lot.

Now that we are on the subject, what about the huge lot on 21st and Capitol next to the funeral parlour? I always assumed it was part of the office building, but it sounds like it is separate ownership.
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  #5237  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2014, 5:04 AM
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I think Majin is referring to the new city zoning code and the central city urban design guidelines, both of which strongly discourage new stand-alone surface parking lots in the central city. The previous zoning code allowed them as a "temporary" use but the current zoning code removed that, because "temporary" lots tend to become permanent (there are "temporary" lots downtown that were cleared 50 years ago!)

And yes, Pappas submitted an application to turn the recently cleared corner of 21st and Capitol into a surface parking lot, and are asking for exemptions to the city requirements for surface parking lots (regarding shade, planters, and other means to make it look less horrid than a parking lot usually does.) This lot is not intended as part of the Whole Foods project, but as replacement parking for tenants of 2020 L Street (also owned by Pappas) who park in the parking structure that will be replaced by the Whole Foods.

If they have changed plans, from a parking lot only to a parking structure wrapped with retail, that's something of an improvement--although not quite as nice as a parking structure with retail in front that has residential units above it. I assume they were told by the city that a surface parking lot was a no-no?
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  #5238  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2014, 5:21 AM
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So Youssefi was able to shake down the city afterall. A more reputable developer would have been able to get financing. But whatever, at least it's moving forward...finally!
Wow, where does that hostility come from? This was a redevelopment project, no "shakedown" (the shakedown was one of the other proposals for the 700/800 block that asked for a lot more money.) and the city funds authorized were the public bonds associated with the release of state redevelopment funds. But those funds were less than expected, and the developer was able to get private equity to cover the funding gap.

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I have to ask wburg why he thinks that lack of home ownership is such a huge problem for the central city? Since the current economics does not favor home ownership in the central city I don't see things changing for at least 20 years. Instead we would be wise to treat renters with the same respect we give the property owners. I don't think the high % of renters is such a huge problem. But I think not providing the long-term renting residents the mechanisms in which to improve their community is troubling. Renter's contribution to the economy and social life of the central city is enormous, but largely ignored. We are still rather small-minded in this way. Do I want more home ownership in the central city/midtown? Yes. But we can't expect that to happen if the city kowtows to the out-of-area property owners and absentee landlords and does nothing to encourage residents (renters and owner-occupied alike) to take a vested interest in improving their surroundings. End of rant, thank you and goodnight.
The lack of home ownership is a huge problem because of the reasons you just mentioned: out-of-area property owners and absentee landlords who do nothing to encourage residents to take a vested interest in improving their surroundings. I'm not exaggerating when I say 90% of central city housing is rental--9 out of 10 housing units are rentals, 1 out of 10 are owners. Compare that to the city as a whole, where 60% of the housing is ownership, or nearby neighborhoods like Land Park and East Sacramento, where 80-90% of the housing is ownership. Some parts of the "grid" have higher percentages than others (Marshall School/New Era is the highest at 25%, the Southside at 20%, Newton Booth around 10%, Midtown proper more like 7%, and Downtown in the central business district and Old Sacramento are less than 1% ownership) but even the highest are still ridiculously low compared to the rest of the city.

Current economics favors home ownership in the central city, which is why the market for central city housing is so red-hot. It's tough to find a "fixer" home in Midtown for less than $300K (most of them have already been "fixed" and command higher prices), the handful of condos start at $200K and run up to a million, and infill homes like Tapestri Square, 2500 R and other small projects are being sold as fast as they can be built with prices ranging from $350K-800K. The problem is there isn't enough housing for sale to meet the demand. That's due to a lack of supply, not a market that doesn't favor home ownership.

It's a big problem because one of the indicators of the health of a neighborhood is ownership housing. Owners tend to stay longer and, because they are tied to the neighborhood via a significant financial investment, are more personally interested in the fate of the neighborhood. Certainly renters can become interested in civic engagement, if they are policy wonks or just very civic-minded, but it's a lot harder to reach renters and many tend to see their tenancy as temporary. If the neighborhood becomes less livable, they can just move out. Now, a lot of the apartments under construction or recently built were built to condo standards, so some of them could "go condo" in a decade and change the balance somewhat. But it's still a systemic problem primarily driven by the lack of sufficient ownership housing quantity. That means that a Midtown resident in an apartment who wants to buy is less likely to be able to find ownership housing in their own neighborhood--so they move to Curtis Park, East Sacramento, Tahoe Park or Oak Park instead. As a result, those who do want to become more established, those with higher disposable incomes who want to invest in their neighborhood, are likely to do it outside the central city.
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  #5239  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2014, 3:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ozone View Post
So Youssefi was able to shake down the city afterall. A more reputable developer would have been able to get financing. But whatever, at least it's moving forward...finally!

I have to ask wburg why he thinks that lack of home ownership is such a huge problem for the central city? Since the current economics does not favor home ownership in the central city I don't see things changing for at least 20 years. Instead we would be wise to treat renters with the same respect we give the property owners. I don't think the high % of renters is such a huge problem. But I think not providing the long-term renting residents the mechanisms in which to improve their community is troubling. Renter's contribution to the economy and social life of the central city is enormous, but largely ignored. We are still rather small-minded in this way. Do I want more home ownership in the central city/midtown? Yes. But we can't expect that to happen if the city kowtows to the out-of-area property owners and absentee landlords and does nothing to encourage residents (renters and owner-occupied alike) to take a vested interest in improving their surroundings. End of rant, thank you and goodnight.
I agree with some of what you are saying, unfortunately this is not how tax incentives for the federal government work. As a persons income goes up, it becomes a better and better deal for someone to purchase a home. You only get $70 off a year for being a renter, while you can write off many thousands and thousands for purchasing a home.

Second, because of the lack of housing for sale downtown, people do not realize that some of the rental prices are a huge rip off, that would actually exceed the cost of a mortgage at todays interest rates.

I want to live downtown. It was a better deal for me to buy a home in East sac then to keep renting in midtown and that makes me sad because I know this is a problem being played out over and over again with other people too.
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  #5240  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2014, 6:08 PM
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I agree with some of what you are saying, unfortunately this is not how tax incentives for the federal government work. As a persons income goes up, it becomes a better and better deal for someone to purchase a home. You only get $70 off a year for being a renter, while you can write off many thousands and thousands for purchasing a home.

Second, because of the lack of housing for sale downtown, people do not realize that some of the rental prices are a huge rip off, that would actually exceed the cost of a mortgage at todays interest rates.

I want to live downtown. It was a better deal for me to buy a home in East sac then to keep renting in midtown and that makes me sad because I know this is a problem being played out over and over again with other people too.
Yup, this is a huge problem. Developers and land lords keep thinking downtown/midtown warrants huge rent and high-end lofts, etc. But they're really doing a disservice to the big picture. The problem is there's not enough mid-income housing in the urban core. Why pay $1600 a month for a small one-bedroom apartment in midtown when the same could rent you a 2 or 3 bedroom house in East Sac or Land Park? Especially for couples/families? Developers and the city tend to think the only people who want to live downtown are single, young professionals with lots of money. That's a draw, but that's not all we should build for.
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