DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[EngiNerd]

Well, so much for the area adjacent to the Arapahoe LRT station being a TOD....

Office tower coming to SE corridor

Highlights:

Plans unveiled for office tower.
Veteran developers plan 10-story Village Center DTC.
It will open in 2016 at I-25 and Arapahoe Road.

Developers on Wednesday unveiled plans for a 10-story, $100 million, energy-efficient office tower to be built on a key site along the Denver-area Southeast corridor.

Granite Properties and Confluent Holdings are partners in a 300,000-square foot office building, Village Center DTC, near Interstate 25 and Arapahoe Road in the Village Center area of Greenwood Village.

Granite is buying the land from Koelbel and Co., one of the oldest and best known real estate families in Colorado.

Targeted to break ground in March 2015, Village Center DTC is a Class A office building within walking distance of the Village Center light rail stop and that is near a number of existing restaurants, retailers and other office buildings that are part of the Village Center,

The property also will be adjacent to the new, full service, 203-room Westin Greenwood Village, also slated to break ground in the first quarter of 2015.

....

http://insiderealestatenews.com/2014/10/16/office-tower-coming-to-se-corridor/

[FrancoRey]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

Well, so much for the area adjacent to the Arapahoe LRT station being a TOD....

^^^



That's just....ugh.

[bunt_q]

And to the previous point about the threat to downtown, some perspective, that's as big as 1401 Lawrence. Slightly larger actually. Must still be attracting businesses down there after all.

[EngiNerd]

http://greenwoodvillage.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=308&meta_id=22839

Check out the Village Center East plan on page 16 & 17 of this PDF for what was proposed at one point, and then look at their summary of goals.

http://greenwoodvillage.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=173&meta_id=11197

How does this development (or the proposed Westin) in any way, shape, or form follow any of those goals? Looks like they pretty much gave up on them.

Just for grins, the Westin which is going in the current RTD parking lot at the Arapahoe Station on the east side of I-25

http://www.arrivalpartners.com/

[bunt_q]

Oh, so you mean a planner put together a document with a bunch of lofty goals they learned about in school and pretty pictures that have no relation to the actual transportation system we built or how people actually use it. And then when somebody came in and wanted to build 400,000 square feet of prime tax generating commercial and hotel development, the actual decision makers ignored the lofty rhetoric? I am shocked, shocked I tell you. Sometimes I wonder if universities shouldn't merge their planning and marketing programs.

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

http://greenwoodvillage.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=308&meta_id=22839

Check out the Village Center East plan on page 16 & 17 of this PDF for what was proposed at one point, and then look at their summary of goals.

http://greenwoodvillage.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=173&meta_id=11197

How does this development (or the proposed Westin) in any way, shape, or form follow any of those goals? Looks like they pretty much gave up on them.
http://www.arrivalpartners.com/

This was pretty much my point when I criticized the Westin plan a week or so ago. The debate over city vs. suburb - should or shouldn't dense urbanism be built in this location is almost completely beside the point; some believe it shouldn't, others (like me) believe that it should.

But what I think is really worth criticizing is exactly what you said... stick to your guns Greenwood Village! What's the point of commissioning a highly respectable urban master plan, telling the world that this is what you are going to build; then turning around and approving a slate of projects that not only fail at basic urban design principals like alley-loaded parking, but actually torpedo any chance of EVER implementing the plan that was commissioned?

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Oh, so you mean a planner put together a document with a bunch of lofty goals they learned about in school and pretty pictures that have no relation to the actual transportation system we built or how people actually use it. And then when somebody came in and wanted to build 400,000 square feet of prime tax generating commercial and hotel development, the actual decision makers ignored the lofty rhetoric? I am shocked, shocked I tell you. Sometimes I wonder if universities shouldn't merge their planning and marketing programs.

Fair enough, but the plan must have been signed off on by the city government. It isn't just some dreamy creative bullshit put out by a designer... it actually had to be commissioned, approved, and made public by the city itself. Surely this was done by at least some of the same planners who are now turning around and rubber stamping plans that look nothing like what was proposed. I find it hard to believe that they or their economic development office were completely ignorant of what developers want to build in this part of town; they've been churning out edge-city crap for decades, so of course they understand their own market.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by mr1138

Fair enough, but the plan must have been signed off on by the city government. It isn't just some dreamy creative bullshit put out by a designer... it actually had to be commissioned, approved, and made public by the city itself. Surely this was done by at least some of the same planners who are now turning around and rubber stamping plans that look nothing like what was proposed. I find it hard to believe that they or their economic development office were completely ignorant of what developers want to build in this part of town; they've been churning out edge-city crap for decades, so of course they understand their own market.

Sure but nobody wants to produce a plan showing that. So they do aspirational "popular" stuff, and then adjust for what the market actually wants. Because as we all know, plans are not binding in Colorado. That's why I never look at the comp plan, I look at the zoning.

[rds70]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

http://greenwoodvillage.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=308&meta_id=22839

Check out the Village Center East plan on page 16 & 17 of this PDF for what was proposed at one point, and then look at their summary of goals.

http://greenwoodvillage.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=173&meta_id=11197

How does this development (or the proposed Westin) in any way, shape, or form follow any of those goals? Looks like they pretty much gave up on them.

I would say that the east side of I-25 is pretty close to the illustrative plan. The plan shows a hotel adjacent to the parking structure, office buildings along I-25, and residential closer to Yosemite.

The Westin Hotel is in the same location (although with a smaller number of rooms than originally planned). The office buildings will line I-25, just as in the plan. And the residential is still planned on the eastern portion of the property. In fact, the City Council denied a zone change request for a residential project earlier this year because it did NOT include any retail space.

Here is the updated plan the City is working from:


And a rendering of the project as viewed from I-25:

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

And to the previous point about the threat to downtown, some perspective, that's as big as 1401 Lawrence. Slightly larger actually. Must still be attracting businesses down there after all.

Of course. Millenials prefer transit and urban environments. The Baby Boomers and early Gen X-er's in executive and upper management still like Parker and want an easy drive from their 4000 sq ft house to the office.

Still seems as if the amount of development going in downtown versus the SE Corridor is a lot more balanced, if not slightly in DT's favor, versus ten years ago. A worksheet would be nice, but I'm not going to do it right now. Someone get Ryan front and center.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Someone get Ryan front and center.

Ryan.... Does not have time for that at the moment.

So passback! Wong... Front and center!

[TakeFive]

During the boom in downtown (Guess the City) in the 1970s and 1980s, developers only built the number of parking spaces needed at the time. A typical office of that period would have more than 500 square feet per employee, and developers built just one or two parking spaces for every 1,000 square feet of office space.

However, gone are the days of spacious offices with generous elbow room for employees. Today’s offices pack people in more tightly, with about 250 square feet of office space per person and a corresponding need for four (parking) spaces for every 1,000 square feet.

Hint: This city leads the nation in most light rail miles.

Midtown Phoenix suffers from this issue. It has Big vacancy b/c when the Great Recession hit, existing tenants (that could) opted for bargain rates in newly constructed Class A space (either downtown or 24th&Camelback). Prospective tenants want more parking than Midtown buildings have to offer and Light Rail goes right by their doors.

Answer HERE.

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by rds70

I would say that the east side of I-25 is pretty close to the illustrative plan. The plan shows a hotel adjacent to the parking structure, office buildings along I-25, and residential closer to Yosemite.

The Westin Hotel is in the same location (although with a smaller number of rooms than originally planned). The office buildings will line I-25, just as in the plan. And the residential is still planned on the eastern portion of the property. In fact, the City Council denied a zone change request for a residential project earlier this year because it did NOT include any retail space.

I was going to post the same thing. This really doesn't look much different than what has been illustrated.

[TakeFive]

After today's report on recent Hotel Occupancy

at the DBJ:

Downtown Denver hotels are setting historical records for their occupancy rates this year, aided by boosts in business and leisure travel this summer that have come after years when room demand has grown much more quickly than room supply.

it's only a matter of time before

somebody builds a Big Beautiful New Hotel. Between Blocks 131, 138 and 162 I could see a couple of new hotel projects. Surely one will be a Tall Boy maybe similar to Four Seasons with either apartments or condos on top.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

After today's report on recent Hotel Occupancy

at the DBJ:

it's only a matter of time before

somebody builds a Big Beautiful New Hotel. Between Blocks 131, 138 and 162 I could see a couple of new hotel projects. Surely one will be a Tall Boy maybe similar to Four Seasons with either apartments or condos on top.

That definitely points to a large (500+ room) hotel on Block 162 being viable. There are at least 3 hotel proposals in the Union Station area, Z Block in Lodo and the under construction Art Hotel at 12th & Broadway. One is rumored for Lower Highland too behind Amato's, possibly a 21c Museum Hotel. I think we could see one as part of the eventual Market Station redevelopment.

[DenverPoke]

Originally Posted by BG918

That definitely points to a large (500+ room) hotel on Block 162 being viable. There are at least 3 hotel proposals in the Union Station area, Z Block in Lodo and the under construction Art Hotel at 12th & Broadway. One is rumored for Lower Highland too behind Amato's, possibly a 21c Museum Hotel. I think we could see one as part of the eventual Market Station redevelopment.

I believe the new Hilton brand Canopy will be coming to Denver as well. They seem to be targeting hip neighborhoods so I would guess either LoDo or possibly Lower Highland. Market Station seems like a perfect fit.

[mhays]

Next time I visit, being a short walk from the airport train station will be my #1 goal. That, the general business growth in that area, and proximity to baseball and nightlife suggest that it should support a lot of rooms. Being on the Downtown side of the station would be best.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by DenverPoke

I believe the new Hilton brand Canopy will be coming to Denver as well. They seem to be targeting hip neighborhoods so I would guess either LoDo or possibly Lower Highland. Market Station seems like a perfect fit.

Of course I had to try to check out what the hell you were talking about. I found THIS good USA Today article. I also then clicked the link for Marriott's new AC brand which also discusses this fast growing market segment.

Lower Highlands seems like a good fit for Canopy with their desire for a neighborhood feel and appeal. Market Street Station though would probably work for either Canopy or AC. Could Tabor Two be a Tall Boy with both hotel and office? Block 131 or 138 might be good fit for either a Canopy or AC as well with their proximity to both the Convention Center and Cultural Arts District and offering a different flavor.

[RyanD]

Cory-Merrill Sunset by RyanDravitz, on Flickr

[TakeFive]

Wow
Pavarotti and Cocker?