Calgary Public Transit II

[lubicon]

Regarding the Tuscany LRT station and the parking issue. Speaking both as a Tuscany resident and a Calgary resident I knew that this was almost certainly going to become an issue almost immediately. Sadly Calgary is turning into a city of 'me first' self entitled people who think that rules, requests and everything else only apply to other people. Tuscany aint that big and there are two freaking bus routes to the station. I looked at the timing and it's less than 20 minutes if I recall for a bus to make a complete trip. You are likely no more than a 10 minute bus ride at to the station yet people still seem to feel they need to drive. Not sure what they are expecting to be saving by driving but whatever. Maybe one more two minutes at the most. Then they don't want to pay to park but hey, they're special so why not just park on the street. What a bunch of lazy ass cheapskates.

My opinion is forget about the residential parking restrictions that residents can apply for, they seem like a huge pain in the ass anyway. What the City should consider doing is allow on street parking for a maximum of 4 hours between certain hours - say 7am to 1pm. That covers the morning rush and probably most of the freeloaders. Anyone using the train after that is likely a casual rider and wont be parking for a long period of time. Then ticket the shit out of vehicles in the early afternoon and maybe people will get the message.

[Full Mountain]

Speaking of NIMBY's that think they own the street in front of their home. I have a neighbour that had a curb cut put in and puts rude notes on people cars if they even slightly encroach or comes out and yells at them. The funniest part of this is that there is not enough room on her property to park a vehicle larger than a motorcycle and she can't & doesn't drive due to some health issues.

My opinion is that they city should build a system that works on GPS, every resident is required to purchase a transponder, then turn every inch of street into a paid parking spot. Visitors would have to register via a similar system to the current parkplus system. Maybe the person down the street with the van that hasn't moved in 1.5+ years would rethink using up public space. The transponders could also be used to toll roads during peak periods. Cost could be variable depending on the utilization rate at that point in time.

Maybe we can start taxing for each vehicle over the number of on property spaces, to account for the storage of the vehicle on public property. This is less effective than turning every inch of curb into paid parking and if you have a curb cut for accessing your property you have to pay that 100% of the time, alley accesses would be shared among all the homes utilizing that access.

[J-D]

I don't know how much I trust the article given the source, but some interesting statistics from our northern neighbors:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/09/29/lo...n-transit-fares-not-fair-to-the-taxpayer

A $3.20 fare costs $7.05. That means every full-fare ride costs Edmontonians an extra $3.85.

Anyone know what CT looks like?

[VIce]

Originally Posted by J-D

I don't know how much I trust the article given the source, but some interesting statistics from our northern neighbors:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/09/29/lo...n-transit-fares-not-fair-to-the-taxpayer



Anyone know what CT looks like?

In terms of operating costs (the PDF I found directed elsewhere for capital plans), Calgary Transit had $346,649,000 in expenditures and $169,340,000 in revenues, for a subsidy of $177,309,000 or about $3.14 per fare.

(The operating costs for roads are $132,375,000 though, which is infinity dollars per fare).

[speedog]

Originally Posted by VIce

In terms of operating costs (the PDF I found directed elsewhere for capital plans), Calgary Transit had $346,649,000 in expenditures and $169,340,000 in revenues, for a subsidy of $177,309,000 or about $3.14 per fare.

(The operating costs for roads are $132,375,000 though, which is infinity dollars per fare).

To be fair, some of the provincial fuel taxes collected on every liter of fuel sold in Calgary comes back to the city of Calgary be it private or public vehicles. Also, Calgary Transit does use city of Calgary roads so there is some cost per fair there that could be calculated by a very industrious person.

[joe498]

Originally Posted by speedog

To be fair, some of the provincial fuel taxes collected on every liter of fuel sold in Calgary comes back to the city of Calgary be it private or public vehicles. Also, Calgary Transit does use city of Calgary roads so there is some cost per fair there that could be calculated by a very industrious person.

Provincial fuel taxes? Can't say I am aware of Ab having any tax of the sort. We need a gas tax though.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by speedog

To be fair, some of the provincial fuel taxes collected on every liter of fuel sold in Calgary comes back to the city of Calgary be it private or public vehicles. Also, Calgary Transit does use city of Calgary roads so there is some cost per fair there that could be calculated by a very industrious person.

Gas taxes come back in the form of grants for capital projects not for operating expenses, those are funded 100% from property taxes with zero recovery from any road user.

Regarding transit using the road too, yes they do, but they are by far the most efficient use of the road that currently exists. If we are going to recover costs from road users we need to recover them based on efficient use of resources this puts SOV's at the top of the charges with buses at the bottom.

Another thought, Calgary Transit may be the single largest purchaser of fuel in Calgary (outside of the airport), so maybe they are paying their fair share...

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by joe498

Provincial fuel taxes? Can't say I am aware of Ab having any tax of the sort. We need a gas tax though.

Yup, 9 cents a litre, lowest in Canada

[Source PDF]

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by J-D

I don't know how much I trust the article given the source, but some interesting statistics from our northern neighbors:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/09/29/lo...n-transit-fares-not-fair-to-the-taxpayer



Anyone know what CT looks like?

I'd expect an anti-transit screed like that from a US newspaper, though given that the Sun chain wishes Canada was just like the States I suppose I'm not surprised.

[DizzyEdge]

What's funny of course is it's going to be the suburban routes which are subsidized the most.

[VIce]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

I'd expect an anti-transit screed like that from a US newspaper, though given that the Sun chain wishes Canada was just like the States I suppose I'm not surprised.

Although I usually dislike the content of the Sun, I'm usually even more annoyed at their narrative voice. Its just so preachy.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Sometimes I wish transit strikes were more regular, to show how bad things get without it. Or something akin to 'oh no, the transit central computer has failed, nothing can move'.

[fusili]

These studies love to show how much transit is subsidized, but forget to show how much driving and parking are subsidized. Let's just toll the roads and let the market figure it out.

[J-D]

I think this is new, Anderson Station TOD

http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Pages/Trans...tation-Transit-Oriented-Development.aspx

http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Documents/Publications/Anderson-TOD-project-update-sept-2014.pdf

Over a period of 10 years (beginning in approximately 2016) and during a phased approached, park
and ride stalls will be reduced at Anderson from 1750 to 500 stalls in approximately 2027.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Yup, 9 cents a litre, lowest in Canada

[Source PDF]

With 5 cents of that 9 cents coming back to Calgary on every liter sold and considering there's probably around 900,000 vehicles registered in Calgary (link), it's not unrealistic that the CoC could be seeing something close to $2,025,000 on a weekly basis back into CoC General Revenues. I'm figuring around 45 liters a week per vehicle - that would mean a lot of revenue back to the CoC from ordinary citizens and companies as well as transit buses.

It would be interesting to find out how much fuel Calgary Transit uses on a weekly basis to make more calculations - this document (link indicates that Calgary Transit's 1,100 buses used $28,000,000 liters of fuel in 2013 which would equate to about $27,000 a week back to the CoC.

This would mean that the CoC is realizing close to $2,025,000 off of all non-Calgary Transit bus vehicles - that $25,000 would represent just over 1% of the $2,025,000. Now I don't have the numbers handy with respect to how many passenger miles are done on Calgary Transit buses versus non-Calgary Transit vehicles on a weekly basis in Calgary but I suspect Calgary Transit is carrying far more than 1% which would mean that non-Calgary Transit bus vehicles are actually subsidizing Calgary Transit buses when it comes to Alberta fuel tax amounts being returned to the CoC. In a way though, this is good for the environment as it shows that those per passenger mile expenses are lower for Calgary Transit buses - does this mean that we need to continue travelling in private vehicles as it is a considerable source of revenue for the CoC?

By the way, I'm was just doing some quick number crunching - numbers like these can be used in all sorts of ways to come up with all kinds of conclusions. Don't shoot me as I'm quite open to any re-interpretation of these numbers. For the record, I put about 45 liters a week into my car and about 85-90 liters a week into my wife's SUV - thus my 45 liter a week number above could be a bit low.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by speedog

With 5 cents of that 9 cents coming back to Calgary on every liter sold and considering there's probably around 900,000 vehicles registered in Calgary (link), it's not unrealistic that the CoC could be seeing something close to $2,025,000 on a weekly basis back into CoC General Revenues. I'm figuring around 45 liters a week per vehicle - that would mean a lot of revenue back to the CoC from ordinary citizens and companies as well as transit buses.

It would be interesting to find out how much fuel Calgary Transit uses on a weekly basis to make more calculations - this document (link indicates that Calgary Transit's 1,100 buses used $28,000,000 liters of fuel in 2013 which would equate to about $27,000 a week back to the CoC.

This would mean that the CoC is realizing close to $2,025,000 off of all non-Calgary Transit bus vehicles - that $25,000 would represent just over 1% of the $2,025,000. Now I don't have the numbers handy with respect to how many passenger miles are done on Calgary Transit buses versus non-Calgary Transit vehicles on a weekly basis in Calgary but I suspect Calgary Transit is carrying far more than 1% which would mean that non-Calgary Transit bus vehicles are actually subsidizing Calgary Transit buses when it comes to Alberta fuel tax amounts being returned to the CoC. In a way though, this is good for the environment as it shows that those per passenger mile expenses are lower for Calgary Transit buses - does this mean that we need to continue travelling in private vehicles as it is a considerable source of revenue for the CoC?

By the way, I'm was just doing some quick number crunching - numbers like these can be used in all sorts of ways to come up with all kinds of conclusions. Don't shoot me as I'm quite open to any re-interpretation of these numbers. For the record, I put about 45 liters a week into my car and about 85-90 liters a week into my wife's SUV - thus my 45 liter a week number above could be a bit low.

I was going to go with quite high, if I put 45 litres a month into my vehicle, I've driven a fair bit. I also doubt that 50% of those 900k vehicles are used to the extent you use yours. That said I have zero sources to back that up.

CT completes >200k trips a day, if you consider that there is 3 vehicles for every 4 residents (900k vs 1.2M), this would mean that 150k of those vehicles don't drive more than a few kms per day, likely only using 45 litres every 2-3 weeks. Note that, that assumes all those 150k riders drive a portion of the trip. Edit: found in that anderson TOD report that the city aims for 10-15% of trips using parking given that only 30k vehicles drive a portion of the commute each day, that means that 120k vehicles sit at home during the day and only get used during the evenings and weekends (discretionary trips).

As you mentioned a lot of the numbers are a WAG, I'm sure there are many other stats you could pull in to truly understand the amount of subsidy that goes either way.

IMO the road subsidy far exceeds the transit subsidy, I wonder what would happen if all the unprofitable transit routes were removed? Put the primary directive of transit as servicing the areas that support it, rather than defining a distance to the nearest stop and a minimum service level.

Originally Posted by fusili

These studies love to show how much transit is subsidized, but forget to show how much driving and parking are subsidized. Let's just toll the roads and let the market figure it out.

Apply it to all users according to space used and you have a fair system...oh wait that would go down something spectacular!

[joe498]

City proposes $100-million Macleod Trail redesign:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgar...cleod+Trail+redesign/10264775/story.html

Recommendations include maintaining six lines of vehicle traffic, but widening sidewalks and pathways, adding separated cycle tracks, and creating green boulevard space.

-

Can't exactly say I am thrilled about this idea. In contrast to funding projects like the SE/NC LRT. Just another $100m in the wrong direction.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by joe498

City proposes $100-million Macleod Trail redesign:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgar...cleod+Trail+redesign/10264775/story.html

Recommendations include maintaining six lines of vehicle traffic, but widening sidewalks and pathways, adding separated cycle tracks, and creating green boulevard space.

-

Can't exactly say I am thrilled about this idea. In contrast to funding projects like the SE/NC LRT. Just another $100m in the wrong direction.

I know where you are coming from but I think the re-design could spur more densification(not a real word) along Macleod trail. Currently Macleod(especially around 39th ave) is one of the most dismal and underutilized corridor in Calgary(IMHO).

[Rusty van Reddick]

"Densification" is a real word.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by joe498

City proposes $100-million Macleod Trail redesign:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgar...cleod+Trail+redesign/10264775/story.html

Recommendations include maintaining six lines of vehicle traffic, but widening sidewalks and pathways, adding separated cycle tracks, and creating green boulevard space.

-

Can't exactly say I am thrilled about this idea. In contrast to funding projects like the SE/NC LRT. Just another $100m in the wrong direction.

Council isn't funding anything at this time for this project.