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  #81  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2014, 3:07 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Isn't that still the notional idea for the bus terminal block or has it died?
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  #82  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2014, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Love that design. Refreshing to have two towers spread out instead of the usual continuous wall of 23-27 storey towers.
I posted more renderings of the bus terminal proposal on my old blog a few years ago.

http://reinventingottawa.blogspot.ca...ation.html?m=1
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  #83  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2014, 4:07 PM
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I posted more renderings of the bus terminal proposal on my old blog a few years ago.

http://reinventingottawa.blogspot.ca...ation.html?m=1
Thanks for sharing your blog and the additional renderings. The pedestrian section looked pleasant, and as J.OT13 said, it's refreshing that the towers were at opposite ends of the property.

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  #84  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2014, 4:15 PM
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I posted more renderings of the bus terminal proposal on my old blog a few years ago.

http://reinventingottawa.blogspot.ca...ation.html?m=1
Interesting. I subscribed...
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  #85  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2014, 4:41 PM
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We have a thread for the redevelopment of the Catherine St. bus terminal over here, but I see that as with many of the older threads, the linked images are mostly gone:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=189396
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  #86  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2014, 5:10 PM
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Ideas for LeBreton Flats

Phil Jenkins, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: October 5, 2014, Last Updated: October 5, 2014 12:45 PM EDT


Some time or other ago, the City put on an evening of “X-files” in a well-attended room in what was then the regional headquarters. The files were related to civic projects that had been feasibled and planned but had never come to fruition. As someone who might know a thing or two about LeBreton Flats, I was asked to run through the bulky file of might-have-beens for the 150 acres of vacant, riverside land within an arrow’s shot of Parliament.

That evening’s exercise came to mind when the NCC put out a big suggestion box on Phase Two of the redevelopment of the Flats. The Commission, which has lately been on a public consultation mini-binge as to how to dress up and to build on the Flats, wanted ideas for a federal anchor building on the next phase.

One of the several vision quests for the Flats since demolition in the Sixties did indeed call for a fair wallop of fed infrastructure, a weaving in of buildings among the residential, civic and parkland areas. The first manifestation of that was the War Museum, which I call, despite its content, the Peace-Seekers Museum. It does indeed, with its copper ship’s prow, anchor the northern section — or wall off the river access. A Holocaust memorial is a done deal down there, across from the Peace-Seeking Museum (if we are into museum re-naming), although again I would have preferred a memorial of broader scope, a reminder of the too-many historical examples, large and smaller, we have of outbreaks of attempted genocide. And maybe a little memorial alongside to the victims of neo-conservatism.

The short list of X-files for the Flats included a high speed train terminal, which was OK by me; what a great national unifying project. There was an admirable suggestion to make it a world-leading showcase for a low income, stepping-stone, neighbourhood, and that got my vote. It might have been a park, similar to Stanley Park, instead of the parking lot for festivals, licensed and unlicensed, with which we ended up. Or a hockey stadium, baseball stadium, basketball stadium. An aquarium.

I encouraged my mind, when I focused on the idea, to come up with suggestions that were outside the box, particularly the residential boxes on the east side. The first thing that came floating up was a revival of the giant glass teepee/greenhouse that the Aboriginal community proposed for the site of the Daly Building, lo, these many years ago. But this time we go big. As well as serving as a link to the future Global Indigenous People’s Centre on Victoria Island, the Algonquin could partner with the Experimental Farm to enable us to partake of hot brown liquids under foliage in the winter.

Idea number two. A gradually conversion of the unmolested parts of the Flats into a Green research complex, similar to Tunney’s pasture, in a park setting. This could include a cell phone tower fashioned to resemble a towering tree.

Idea number three. A pier, similar to the ones that existed once upon a time at Britannia and West Park. Above the Chaudière Falls, the Kitchissippi Pier would house a concert hall with a thousand seats and a roof that could open and close. I know this would not be on the Phase Two site, but I had to get it in.

Of course, what we end up with will undoubtedly be none of the above. For now, until we get the results of the call-out, how about a line of mighty pine and maple trees, another reminder similar to those arboreal giants from the timber trade. Put them right in front of the condos.

Phil Jenkins is an Ottawa writer. Email: [email protected].

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...lebreton-flats
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  #87  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2014, 5:11 PM
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Chaudiere's significance has many layers

Randy Boswell
Published on: October 5, 2014, Last Updated: October 5, 2014 12:47 PM EDT


The rezoning plan tentatively approved Thursday for Windmill’s redevelopment of the Chaudière islands was billed, in part, as a project that will “celebrate the industrial, aboriginal and natural heritage” of this historic site in the heart of Ottawa-Gatineau.

That’s as it should be. These islands really were critically important components of what would become the National Capital Region.

But there is also, in this ambitious and long overdue redevelopment scheme, an unacknowledged and unresolved tension between the industrial legacy of the site and its symbolic importance as part of a sacred space for First Nations and as a nationally significant place in the history of the Canadian conservation movement.

The conflict between aboriginal territorial and spiritual rights and the industrial-era entombment of the once-wondrous Chaudière Falls is well known. But we tend to forget the fact that the J.R. Booth sawmill operation on Chaudière Island and the other lumber factories on the river were also the villains in Canada’s first major industrial pollution controversy.

Given the enormously positive impact the lumber industry had on the economy of the entire Ottawa Valley in the 19th century, it’s little wonder the tremendous costs to the environment were largely overlooked at the time and subsequently muted by local historians.

Booth, Bronson, Eddy and the other timber tycoons who employed thousands of Ottawa-Hull residents would leave their names, bathed in glory, on city streets. But there was some political fallout, even in their day, and the earliest inklings in Canada of an emerging environmental consciousness in response to the lumber barons’ relentless dumping of sawdust and chunks of logs into the Ottawa River between the 1850s and early 1900s.

On multiple occasions in the post-Confederation era, the Parliament Buildings (their walls and ceilings framed with Booth’s lumber) echoed with debate over whether the ruination of the Ottawa, the destruction of its fish habitat, the impairment to navigation and the fouling of the capital’s main water supply was worth allowing the unchecked discarding of all this sawmill “offal” into the river.

The conclusion, over and over again, was yes, such “nuisances” would be tolerated to help sustain such an important industry. But the debates did eventually yield restrictions and established a template for future Canadian environmental regulations.

Still, there is some irony in the fact that the planned Windmill project at 3 and 4 Booth St. is intended to be a model of sustainable development — including ecologically sensitive building and landscape designs that promote “green” living — when the “industrial heritage” that will also be celebrated there recalls an industry that turned the Ottawa River, for more than 50 years, into the 19th-century equivalent of a toxic tailings pond.

In 1897, gases built up from sawdust deposits exploded and upturned the boat of a local farmer, killing him. Engineers building the Alexandra Bridge around 1900 remarked on how challenging that project was because of the massive layer of sunken sawdust — 10 metres thick in certain places — covering the bed of a river that once teemed with fish.

Booth, of course, will be additionally honoured in various ways as his former mill on Chaudière Island is elegantly repurposed for condos or offices. But the men and women who spent years complaining about and trying to stop the pollution drifting daily from Booth’s operations into the river, including an early Ottawa medical officer of health and naturalist, Dr. Edward Van Cortlandt, are all but forgotten.

Environmentally conscious Windmill has an opportunity here. It should, somewhere in its redevelopment plans, create a home and provide seed funding for a National Ecology Centre (in a spirit similar to the planned National Aboriginal Centre on Victoria Island) to promote research and advocacy around freshwater protection issues, sustainable forestry, Canadian environmental history and other aspects of conservation, each of which subjects are intimately connected to the multi-layered (and not always triumphant) story of the Chaudière Islands.

Former Citizen writer Randy Boswell is a professor at Carleton University’s School of Journalism and Communication. He recently presented a paper titled The ‘Sawdust Question’ and the River Doctor at a P.E.I. conference sponsored by NiCHE, the Network in Canadian History & Environment.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...as-many-layers
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  #88  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2014, 7:29 PM
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I can't post it because I hit the paywall, but there's yet another take on the development from one of the usual weekend activist guest columnists -

Basically, the site is so steeped in white guilt, it should be handed off to anyone and everyone who feels aggrieved by the sins of the past. Maybe a tiny bit on the Hull shore can be developed, but only if people say it's okay, etc, etc.

I thought the Human Rights Museum already opened in Winnipeg. Call me an insensitive, white colonialist (also: heteronormative, victim-blaming, slut-shaming, ism, ism, ism...) ,but I thought Victoria Island was being kept just for this purpose.

OK, so Victoria Island isn't enough - every square inch of land should be handed over for...something non-white, non-corporate, non-urban...to occur, funded by the evilbadscary people of Ottawa? And in the future, if other sites come up for redevelopment, we can hear the same cries for reperations?

This development sets aside a whole island for native cultural purposes.

It practices the greenest building practices currently known to man.

It opens up a natural wonder to all people - the falls.

And yet, unless it's built as a monument to colonial/lumber baron guilt, it's a terrible thing for the city?

If this ever does get built, expect to read no mention of this site's use in bringing electricity to Ottawa. And electrified transit (1891). And spur the invention of the electric stove (following year). More yucky, oh-so-politically incorrect Ottawa history will be shovelled underground to make way for 'moral history for ALL CANADIANS'
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  #89  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2014, 8:20 PM
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Fulfill Commanda's vision at Chaudière

Peter Raaymakers, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: October 5, 2014, Last Updated: October 5, 2014 12:44 PM EDT


Last week, the City of Ottawa’s Planning Committee unanimously passed a request from Windmill Developments to re-zone Chaudière and Albert Islands for mixed-use community-scale sustainable development as part of its redevelopment project on the old Domtar lands. Windmill’s project, called The Isles, would remediate the old industrial lands and convert them into “a world-class sustainable community” featuring parks, retail, residential, and commercial space. Preliminary drawings show a beautiful and vibrant space with generous consideration given to public spaces and ecological sensitivity.

In isolation, it looks like a home run from an urban development point of view. The Isles offers an opportunity to open up prime real estate to the public, and it would give the National Capital Region an eco-district people around the world would envy. But as with any such decision, this one can’t be made in isolation.

Ottawa and Gatineau are cities built on land that was never ceded by the Algonquin people who once lived in this region. The Algonquin people still retain Aboriginal title of the land, and their land claims over vast swaths of Ontario and Quebec, including the National Capital Region, remain unresolved (although an agreement-in-principal between Ontario, Canada, and the Algonquins of Ontario was released in 2012 for public review and comment). And the Chaudière islands and falls aren’t just normal pieces of that land; they’re sacred sites to the Algonquin people.

As a reflection of this importance, William Commanda of the Kitigàn-zìbì Anishinàbeg First Nation championed a restoration of Asinabka — the Algonquin word that refers to the Chaudière Falls, Chaudière Island, and Victoria Island — to a site of national importance for all people of Canada, including Indigenous, French, and English. Commanda, a recipient of the Order of Canada and the key to the City of Ottawa, envisioned a redevelopment of Asinabka to include a conference centre, an interpretive centre on regional and national history, a National Indigenous Centre, and the freeing of Chaudière Falls “to the extent possible.” With all due respect to Windmill Developments, it’s a plan with far more boldness and significance than a condos and retail space.

The construction of a conference centre (and possibly attached hotel) would establish Asinabka as a meeting place for diverse people, and the parkland surrounding it would be an ideal location for many meetings of national or international relevance. A long-overdue Indigenous museum or interpretive centre would also grace the site, providing context and history of the French, English, and Indigenous histories of this land. Architect Douglas Cardinal, who also designed the Canadian Museum of History, submitted conceptual plans for a National Indigenous Centre (which is planned for Victoria Island, which isn’t part of the Domtar lands or The Isles proposal) to the NCC in the 1990s and received its support, but — as you might expect — the NCC had no money to offer. Finally, freeing the Chaudière Falls would be a symbolic gesture of reconciliation with the natural environment that would enrich the Asinabka park environment.

Management of the facilities would be a shared responsibility of federal and Indigenous governments. Administrative decisions like that are important and would have to be settled before anything could happen, but establishing a mutual interest and willingness to work together to re-establish Asinabka is a vital first step.

As for The Isles, there remains an opportunity for Windmill Developments to remediate and develop the north shore of the Domtar lands, those fully on the Gatineau side of the Ottawa River. Although the project wouldn’t be as large as the current plan, its proximity to the Asinabka development represents a great opportunity for urban revitalization on the current industrial lands.

In partnership with Algonquin and other Indigenous people in Canada, the federal government should work with the City of Ottawa, Domtar, and Windmill Developments to realize the Asinabka redevelopment plan. The legacy of colonialism and oppression of Indigenous people is Canada’s greatest shame, and Commanda’s vision represents a huge opportunity for Canada to take legitimate steps towards healing and reconciliation between Canada and the Indigenous peoples who’ve lived on this land since time immemorial.

Peter Raaymakers is an Ottawa writer.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...n-at-chaudiere
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  #90  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 3:01 AM
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I hate to sound so crass but really, who takes intercity buses? Students and poor people. People who don't really mind crappy settings. Everyone else takes the train...
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  #91  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 9:13 AM
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I hate to sound so crass but really, who takes intercity buses? Students and poor people. People who don't really mind crappy settings. Everyone else takes the train...
I used to do so when I worked in both Ottawa and Montreal simultaneously. Trains are often full, which forces travelers to book a few days ahead, which wasn't practical for me at the time as I often experienced work schedule changes. If the bus is full, you know an other one is lined up... I once took the 4th one leaving Mtl for Ottawa. Also, there are 20 scheduled departures per day in each direction, compared to the 7 rail departures. It's basically comfort versus practicality.
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  #92  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 2:04 PM
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20 vs. 7? Wow, Ottawa-Montreal has good bus service.

For Ottawa-Kingston, it's 6 trains vs. 1 bus for most days.
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  #93  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
I hate to sound so crass but really, who takes intercity buses? Students and poor people. People who don't really mind crappy settings. Everyone else takes the train...
If you need to go anywhere North (along the 17) or West (along the 7) you need to take the bus.

Re: Kingston. This is because greyhound routes a majority of the Ottawa-Toronto buses down Highway 7 to access more population. Only the express Ottawa-Scarborough-Toronto uses the 416-401. The Toronto-Kingston and Toronto-Montreal routes for Greyhound can cover the populations along the 401.

So yes everyone would like to take the train but cost, booking last minute, and schedules play a factor. So I wouldn't say it's just students and poor people
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  #94  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 4:37 PM
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Re: Kingston. This is because greyhound routes a majority of the Ottawa-Toronto buses down Highway 7 to access more population. Only the express Ottawa-Scarborough-Toronto uses the 416-401. The Toronto-Kingston and Toronto-Montreal routes for Greyhound can cover the populations along the 401.
I think the routing for the Toronto-Ottawa buses has more to do with cost than access to population. The highway 7-37 route is quite a bit shorter - something like 40 km. That adds up when you are running multiple buses per day.

There isn't really any significant population to access on that route, and for the most part the buses don't stop anywhere other than Actinolite for a rest.
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  #95  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 4:56 PM
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^ It's also because of the regulatory system we have in Ontario which bans intercity bus companies from competing with each other. The province creates each bus route and each bus company is awarded the exclusive right to operate that bus route by the province.

Toronto-Kingston-Montreal service is provided NOT by Greyhound, but rather by Coach Canada using their Megabus branding. If Ottawa-Toronto service went through Kingston it would overlap with Coach Canada's Toronto-Kingston service thus violating provincial law.

The purpose of this system is to ensure that unprofitable routes to rural areas remain. By giving bus companies a monopoly on profitable routes like Toronto-Kingston or Ottawa-Montreal, it allows the government to force them to operate money-losing rural routes.
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  #96  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 5:19 PM
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Hockey arena a non-starter

I don't disagree with some of the previous posts that the CTC/Palladium should be located at Lebreton Flats. But...considering this is a private facility on private land, how exactly does the NCC, City of Ottawa, or anyone, go about forcing Melnyk to mothball a still relatively new, world-class building? How do you force the Senators to give up their monopoly on food and drink, not to mention parking fees? Won't happen.

We need to accept that the arena stays out in Kanata for the foreseeable future. Meanwhile there are plenty of good ideas for Lebreton and we should focus on those. Certainly there's room for a new museum of Science and Tech, but to really breath new life into the area there needs to be a good mix of housing types, street-level retail, attractive public squares and small urban parks. In other words, bring the urban back into urban planning.
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  #97  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 5:25 PM
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I don't disagree with some of the previous posts that the CTC/Palladium should be located at Lebreton Flats. But...considering this is a private facility on private land, how exactly does the NCC, City of Ottawa, or anyone, go about forcing Melnyk to mothball a still relatively new, world-class building? How do you force the Senators to give up their monopoly on food and drink, not to mention parking fees? Won't happen.

We need to accept that the arena stays out in Kanata for the foreseeable future. Meanwhile there are plenty of good ideas for Lebreton and we should focus on those. Certainly there's room for a new museum of Science and Tech, but to really breath new life into the area there needs to be a good mix of housing types, street-level retail, attractive public squares and small urban parks. In other words, bring the urban back into urban planning.
Forcing? Nobody would be forcing Melnyk to do anything. If he's interested he'd be putting forth a proposal to build a new facility on Lebreton Flats knowing that it would attract a lot more attendees for his hockey club and other shows held there than he could possible ever get way out in the countryside. This would likely be a highly lucrative move for him if he was allowed to do it.
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  #98  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
^ It's also because of the regulatory system we have in Ontario which bans intercity bus companies from competing with each other. The province creates each bus route and each bus company is awarded the exclusive right to operate that bus route by the province.

Toronto-Kingston-Montreal service is provided NOT by Greyhound, but rather by Coach Canada using their Megabus branding. If Ottawa-Toronto service went through Kingston it would overlap with Coach Canada's Toronto-Kingston service thus violating provincial law.

The purpose of this system is to ensure that unprofitable routes to rural areas remain. By giving bus companies a monopoly on profitable routes like Toronto-Kingston or Ottawa-Montreal, it allows the government to force them to operate money-losing rural routes.
Wow thanks for the tidbit. I learned something new today. I had always wondered why Megabus didn't operate into Ottawa. Thanks!
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  #99  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 5:41 PM
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Forcing? Nobody would be forcing Melnyk to do anything. If he's interested he'd be putting forth a proposal to build a new facility on Lebreton Flats knowing that it would attract a lot more attendees for his hockey club and other shows held there than he could possible ever get way out in the countryside. This would likely be a highly lucrative move for him if he was allowed to do it.
Good point. My assumption was that Melnyk wouldn't be interested in building a second NHL arena in a city of 1 million considering the enormous cost this would entail and the fact he's already got a perfectly good building in the west end, whatever its geographic limitations might be. He could of course surprise us all -- though considering that he won't even invest in pavement for his muddy, potholed parking lot at CTC, I'm not holding my breath.
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  #100  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 6:54 PM
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Edmonton's new arena is being built for $480 million.

Here is the breakdown of costs from The City of Edmonton's website:

Guaranteed cost of construction: $360 million
Furniture, fixtures and equipment: $40 million
Land, project management, design, engineering, site services, construction systems and equipment: $80 million

Other elements being built with Edmonton's new arena that we could consider/change some:

Winter garden: $56.5 million
Pedway: $15 million
LRT connection: $7 million
Community rink: $23 million
Land: $25 million
Total arena project cost: $606.5 million

Who is paying?

Community revitalization levy: $199 million
Other city funds: $80 million
Leasing cost for 35 years from Katz Group: $137.81 million
Edmonton Arena Corporation: $23.69 million
Ticket surcharge: $125 million
Contribution from Grant MacEwan for community rink to increase capacity and improve functionality: $2 million
Provincial and federal government contributions: $39 million (not committed)

Now to Ottawa's situation because I think it is very similar. Ottawa will not give a $199 million grant. So Eugene would have to pay at least $336 million to build this arena. I think if the NCC (or Feds) wanted to partner with Eugene to build something magical it could happen. Otherwise this is A LOT of money to spend to leave an arena that is still good for another 20 years, just to be downtown. Agreed though; if the arena was here, right beside the LRT line, every game would sell out and ticket prices might be slightly higher (increased demand).
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